LJCs 'Delusions'

[Evil Homer]

Emotive and incorrect. The bit in bold especially.

You are arguing semantics in the two cases.
"You can attend my class\school if you play sport A"
"you can attend my school\class if you play sport B, and we will pay for you to go as an added inducement"

As you say, schools all over the world go scouting for talent to play for their preferred team. They are induced\bribed to attend that school just to play their preferred sport. Its never good, but there is no real difference. Ask Benji about that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletic_scholarship

If you have some sort of moral objection to athletic scholarships then that's not my problem. But you definitely should have a problem with a teacher telling a student that he needs to start playing RU in favor of RL in order to move into a higher maths class operated by that teacher, because that isn't an athletic scholarship, that's just petty, low-level bribery.

 

[Te Kaha]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletic_scholarship

If you have some sort of moral objection to athletic scholarships then that's not my problem. But you definitely should have a problem with a teacher telling a student that he needs to start playing RU in favor of RL in order to move into a higher maths class operated by that teacher, because that isn't an athletic scholarship, that's just petty, low-level bribery.

Bribery is bribery. one may be "cleaner" in your opinion. But both are done with the intention of helping a particular schools team.

Incidentally IF the teacher had threatened not to let him attend the class if he didn't play that would be extortion and not bribery as such. Making it illegal. So why don't you ask the police to investigate. why hasn't anybody before? maybe it didn't happen as the article suggested.

 

[Evil Homer]

Bribery is bribery. one may be "cleaner" in your opinion. But both are done with the intention of helping a particular schools team.

Yes, and one is an above-board, internationally-accepted practice while the the other was low-level bribery based on a conflict of interest and a teacher abusing his power.

By your definition, a professional RL team offering a bigger contract to a RU player or vice-versa would also be 'bribery'. It isn't, there's a pretty clear moral distinction.

Incidentally IF the teacher had threatened not to let him attend the class if he didn't play that would be extortion and not bribery as such. Making it illegal. So why don't you ask the police to investigate. why hasn't anybody before? maybe it didn't happen as the article suggested.

Yeah, maybe the article is wrong and it didn't really happen :sarcasm:

 

[Te Kaha]

Yes, and one is an above-board, internationally-accepted practice while the the other was low-level bribery based on a conflict of interest and a teacher abusing his power.

So one being more popular makes it better? So by that definition Rugby is so much better than League because its more popular. Wrong is wrong no matter how popular it is.

By your definition, a professional RL team offering a bigger contract to a RU player or vice-versa would also be 'bribery'. It isn't, there's a pretty clear moral distinction.

According to the dictionary definition "anything given or serving to persuade or induce" it is.

Yeah, maybe the article is wrong and it didn't really happen :sarcasm:

Then why hasn't it been reported to the police? Its still inside the statute of limitations, why dot you do it.
IF it went down like that its a clear case of extortion and everybody knows a paper wouldn't exaggerate a claim for click bait.

 

[LJC]

Yes, and one is an above-board, internationally-accepted practice while the the other was low-level bribery based on a conflict of interest and a teacher abusing his power.

By your definition, a professional RL team offering a bigger contract to a RU player or vice-versa would also be 'bribery'. It isn't, there's a pretty clear moral distinction.
Yeah, maybe the article is wrong and it didn't really happen :sarcasm:

Hang in there Evil Homer!

Te Kaha is one mean piece of work!
He's a supreme deflector of the truth and reality and I think enjoys playing us genuine RL fans off the main issue which is the repression of rugby league in various formats around the world.
The numerous examples aren't enough for this Te Kaha dude. He's refuting reality yet has the gumption to call himself a fan of rugby league. Hardly someone you would want in the trenches!
Market forces are part and parcel of rugby league whereas the so called "innocent" code of union prided itself on amateurism in its formative years. It basically used this veil of amateurism to propagate an incipient and deceitful repression of rugby league along with propagating an outdated code of rugby.

The facts are there and more coming in this world of "accessible" communication. It's whether you are big enough to acknowledge the wrong doing which is the issue of people like Te Kaha.

The tyrannical and empirical domination and limitation of the sport of rugby league courtesy of RU's 'friends in power' is a true sporting shame. It needs to be public knowledge that's the issue for this forum!

I spoke to a teacher from WA whom is in NSW now.Her partner is an avid Manly fan and when I mentioned that RL is not played in most private schools she was taken aback and completely unaware of this situation. Just a little example of the lack of reality that is in general society with respect to the code of rugby league and its struggle. Something RL must work on.

 

[Te Kaha]

Hang in there Evil Homer!

Te Kaha is one mean piece of work!
He's a supreme deflector of the truth and reality and I think enjoys playing us genuine RL fans off the main issue which is the repression of rugby league in various formats around the world.
The numerous examples aren't enough for this Te Kaha dude. He's refuting reality yet has the gumption to call himself a fan of rugby league. Hardly someone you would want in the trenches!
Market forces are part and parcel of rugby league whereas the so called "innocent" code of union prided itself on amateurism in its formative years. It basically used this veil of amateurism to propagate an incipient and deceitful repression of rugby league along with propagating an outdated code of rugby.

The facts are there and more coming in this world of "accessible" communication. It's whether you are big enough to acknowledge the wrong doing which is the issue of people like Te Kaha.

The tyrannical and empirical domination and limitation of the sport of rugby league courtesy of RU's 'friends in power' is a true sporting shame. It needs to be public knowledge that's the issue for this forum!

I spoke to a teacher from WA whom is in NSW now.Her partner is an avid Manly fan and when I mentioned that RL is not played in most private schools she was taken aback and completely unaware of this situation. Just a little example of the lack of reality that is in general society with respect to the code of rugby league and its struggle. Something RL must work on.

I really hope you don't run out of tinfoil for your hats, I cant wait until you bring in the "illuminati" as the reason for Leagues struggles, or its "gods wrath" that's causing it... both have as much validity as your claims.

 

[LJC]

LJC might be going a little overboard, but I sure as hell have never heard of any school, university, armed forces or institution denying access to rugby union with perhaps the exception of old trafford. Nor have I heard of bans being placed or threatened on league players for playing rugby union. I will glady be proven wrong though.

Unfortunately, the number of examples to the contrary are numerous and widespread. "Hard" bans may be less and less common, but "soft" bans are still quite comonplace and predjudice is a nearly everyday occurence.

Thanks MDC.

I may be a tad overboard but it's something I'm passionate about and have noticed for many years now. It's time this repression be exposed and openly discussed. I'm impressed you reversed the victim in the situations to see if the same applied to RU aspect of this scenario. Clearly RU does not suffer or is inhibited in the same way as RL is and that's the way I often look at things in general.

As the son of an international soccer player from Europe I discovered RL by chance in that my mum wouldn't let me travel over the rail line to go to the nearest soccer club so I was pushed to play RL in the park across the road.

My public education gave me access to all sports codes and ultimately to me, RL, proved to be the greatest test. When having to sign a declaration to play a school RU game whilst playing semi-professional RL on weekends, I thought this a strange occurrence and so did my Dad. It was from then on, I suspected something not quite right with what the code of RU was doing.

Numerous years and examples onwards I am absolutely convinced of RU's tyranny and deceit and its rueful intention against the sport of RL.

 

[LJC]

I really hope you don't run out of tinfoil for your hats, I cant wait until you bring in the "illuminati" as the reason for Leagues struggles, or its "gods wrath" that's causing it... both have as much validity as your claims.

Your ignorance astounds me and others!

 

[johnny plath]

This is an interesting and important discussion. Maybe someone who knows how could create it's own thread and move relevant comments over so that it doesn't get lost in the eng v France chat. A lot more people may comment of it has its own topic

 

[adamkungl]

I thought it was a boring and pointless discussion tbh.

LJC, yes Union has used it's power and influence to purposely squash League's growth over the last century +.

No, no one would care other than the people who already do if you publicised it as much as you'd like. The vast majority of sports fans couldn't give a f**k.


The fact is that it would be irrelevant in the here and now if Rugby League didn't continually shoot itself in the foot and spend more time squabbling over small-time issues instead of focusing on growth.

If the RLIF was given any sort of money or power or respect from within the game itself this would be a non-issue. RU treats us like dirt because people within RL allow it.

 

[Te Kaha]

Your ignorance astounds me and others!

So you speak for "others" now? and just who are these others? Bigfoot? Nessie? the Roswell Aliens?

 

[Evil Homer]

So one being more popular makes it better? So by that definition Rugby is so much better than League because its more popular. Wrong is wrong no matter how popular it is.

According to the dictionary definition "anything given or serving to persuade or induce" it is.

No, the dictionary definition is "giving or receiving a financial or other advantage in connection with the improper performance of a position of trust, or a function that is expected to be performed impartially or in good faith". It isn't just giving someone an incentive to do something, otherwise everyone being paid a wage would be being bribed. Bribery involves a moral corruption. Offering someone the chance to move into a higher maths class based on what sport they play rather than their ability in maths is bribery. Offering someone an athletic scholarship to attend a certain school is not, it's a highly regulated and above-board practice. It's not about "popularity", it's about legality and integrity. You may not agree with the idea of someone being accepted to a school based on athletic rather than academic performance, you wouldn't be the only one, but that's a different issue completely. And it's certainly not the same as a teacher abusing his position to influence a 15 year old to stop playing one sport in favor of another. That is quite honestly a ridiculous and nonsensical argument, and if anything reinforces the point that the OP was trying to make about RU mentality.

Then why hasn't it been reported to the police? Its still inside the statute of limitations, why dot you do it.
IF it went down like that its a clear case of extortion and everybody knows a paper wouldn't exaggerate a claim for click bait.

This is just a completely puerile and nonsensical response. I haven't "reported it to the police" because it isn't anything to do with me, we're talking about an U15's footy team from 8 years ago. That doesn't mean that the bribery and discrimination didn't take place or is acceptable, then or now. You have first-hand evidence with direct quotes from the people involved. Pretending that it didn't happen is, again, a pretty typical RU response.

 

[Te Kaha]

No, the dictionary definition is "giving or receiving a financial or other advantage in connection with the improper performance of a position of trust, or a function that is expected to be performed impartially or in good faith". It isn't just giving someone an incentive to do something, otherwise everyone being paid a wage would be being bribed. Bribery involves a moral corruption. Offering someone the chance to move into a higher maths class based on what sport they play rather than their ability in maths is bribery. Offering someone an athletic scholarship to attend a certain school is not, it's a highly regulated and above-board practice. It's not about "popularity", it's about legality and integrity. You may not agree with the idea of someone being accepted to a school based on athletic rather than academic performance, you wouldn't be the only one, but that's a different issue completely. And it's certainly not the same as a teacher abusing his position to influence a 15 year old to stop playing one sport in favor of another. That is quite honestly a ridiculous and nonsensical argument, and if anything reinforces the point that the OP was trying to make about RU mentality.

Where did it say he had to stop playing League? I didn't see any quotes from that. Is just stated his teacher wanted him to try out for the under 15 school rugby team. Plenty of kids over the years, myself included, played Rugby for their school and League for their club. Who said he couldn't have done that?

Oh and dictionary definition I gave is also correct. Inducing someone to join their school to play for a team is bribery. whether its under the guise of scholarship or not.

This is just a completely puerile and nonsensical response. I haven't "reported it to the police" because it isn't anything to do with me, we're talking about an U15's footy team from 8 years ago. That doesn't mean that the bribery and discrimination didn't take place or is acceptable, then or now. You have first-hand evidence with direct quotes from the people involved. Pretending that it didn't happen is, again, a pretty typical RU response.

There is a single quote from him, not from the school, or the teacher, or anybody else. You are taking it as gospel with no corroboration based on your belief structure. And the fact that nobody reported it to anybody and was only bought up in a news paper "article" years later doesn't mean it didn't happen or that it happened as stated.

 

[LJC]

So you speak for "others" now? and just who are these others? Bigfoot? Nessie? the Roswell Aliens?

People on this website and I show some sports minded mates the comments from time to time and they can't believe that you are on a RL website.

 

[LJC]

I thought it was a boring and pointless discussion tbh.

LJC, yes Union has used it's power and influence to purposely squash League's growth over the last century +.

No, no one would care other than the people who already do if you publicised it as much as you'd like. The vast majority of sports fans couldn't give a f**k.


The fact is that it would be irrelevant in the here and now if Rugby League didn't continually shoot itself in the foot and spend more time squabbling over small-time issues instead of focusing on growth.

If the RLIF was given any sort of money or power or respect from within the game itself this would be a non-issue. RU treats us like dirt because people within RL allow it.

Agree that there administrative faults within the game but the game can do without another sport and its friends in high places trying to kill it.

Other sports fans are interested, and their are many casual fans that would regard the sport of RU in a different light when knowledge of this repression upon RL is gained. I've seen the response first hand from people I know.

It's worth letting the general public know about it for sure!

Very relevant discourse and a reality for the game of rugby league. Another thread with a relevant name would suit but this is where it's at for now.
And go the mighty chooks!

 

[Te Kaha]

People on this website and I show some sports minded mates the comments from time to time and they can't believe that you are on a RL website.

Sure you have "mates"... keep on telling yourself that.

 

[Evil Homer]

Where did it say he had to stop playing League? I didn't see any quotes from that. Is just stated his teacher wanted him to try out for the under 15 school rugby team. Plenty of kids over the years, myself included, played Rugby for their school and League for their club. Who said he couldn't have done that?

The implication in the article is that he stopped playing RL because of this. I don't know if he did or not. Either way, we weren't talking about club footy, we were talking about scholastic bias against RL and this is an example of that, which is something that you originally said didn't exist.

Oh and dictionary definition I gave is also correct. Inducing someone to join their school to play for a team is bribery. whether its under the guise of scholarship or not.

There is a single quote from him, not from the school, or the teacher, or anybody else. You are taking it as gospel with no corroboration based on your belief structure. And the fact that nobody reported it to anybody and was only bought up in a news paper "article" years later doesn't mean it didn't happen or that it happened as stated.

So in summary you've admitted that there was bribery, you've then come up with a ridiculously twisted definition for bribery that makes it seem like something that is acceptable and commonplace, tried to somehow compare the actions of this teacher to the awarding of athletic scholarships and then finally alleged that maybe the article is wrong and that it didn't really happen.

Classic RU.

 

[LJC]

The implication in the article is that he stopped playing RL because of this. I don't know if he did or not. Either way, we weren't talking about club footy, we were talking about scholastic bias against RL and this is an example of that, which is something that you originally said didn't exist.
So in summary you've admitted that there was bribery, you've then come up with a ridiculously twisted definition for bribery that makes it seem like something that is acceptable and commonplace, tried to somehow compare the actions of this teacher to the awarding of athletic scholarships and then finally alleged that maybe the article is wrong and that it didn't really happen.

Classic RU.

Well done Evil Homer.

Yes the "Didn't happen" spool is quite common with these bigots of RU. Where there's smoke there's fire but these dudes are so wrapped up in their cozy world of establishment based bias that common decency and a fair go does not matter.

 

[Te Kaha]

The implication in the article is that he stopped playing RL because of this. I don't know if he did or not. Either way, we weren't talking about club footy, we were talking about scholastic bias against RL and this is an example of that, which is something that you originally said didn't exist.

Oh the "implication" now is it. I'm glad you admitted you don't know, saves time. No I stated that LJTwat was wrong and there was no institutionalized bias. no grand conspiracy in schools in NZ against league.

So in summary you've admitted that there was bribery, you've then come up with a ridiculously twisted definition for bribery that makes it seem like something that is acceptable and commonplace, tried to somehow compare the actions of this teacher to the awarding of athletic scholarships and then finally alleged that maybe the article is wrong and that it didn't really happen.

Classic RU.

Its the dictionary definition of what a "Bribe" is, if you want to call that twisted take it up with them. And I never claimed it was acceptable, you just made that up. I stated that it is no different to inducing a player to play for a school team by paying their way. which it isn't, Your moral equivalency not withstanding.

 

[LJC]

You can call it what you like Te Kaha as you revert to definitions in your attempt to defend your twisted argument.

And you still haven't worked out the difference between genuine market based approaches (which is the basic rationale of RL talent scouts)as opposed to the bigoted treatment against the playing of a particular sport, that being RL, within an educational institution which should be open and impartial.

Using various terms to weasel out of defending the core message is a proven tact for people of your persuasion and bigotry. It's pretty obvious their is a pattern of repression against the acceptance of RL within the scholastic system of NZ.

Call a spade a spade instead of waffling away seeking some sort of respectability in what has had and is still happening to the code of rugby league which deserves so much better!

Do you acknowledge that their is some alarming examples of repression of RL elsewhere? If so, we are getting somewhere.