LJCs 'Delusions'

[Te Kaha]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/10553015/Wilson-So-you-wanna-play-rugby-league-son

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/rugby-union/a/25464535/force-recruit-smiles-about-bribery/

Individual schools prioritizing Rugby over League does not show that league is banned in the "Scholastic system" in NZ. Rugby is the national sport, the schools receive NZRU funding, it is not surprising that Rugby has a bigger school following. The NZRL has nowhere near the money to invest in a countrywide school system. But it doesn't mean League is banned from NZ schools.

If you care to read the following articles provided by another administrator of League Unlimited in the following post after your rude accusation of 'no evidence' you would apologize. But your form is that of an ignorant person.

FYI

You know nothing about NZ and you are calling me ignorant? There are schools in NZ that play Rugby only, there are schools that play League only. How can league be banned in NZ schools and that still be possible?

 

[LJC]

The first article is a good one. It protrays the reality of the situation that is the same in the UK, South Africa, NZ, Australia etc. The institutions work to protect the status quo. It's not just specific to league or sport even, this sort of stuff happens everywhere.

Hell, the same thing, albeit to a much smaller extent, happens in western Sydney between the AFL and league with the roles reversed, the only difference is the AFL has a bucketload of money to influence a pre-existing culture/network.

It really is up to league to keep pushing, keep putting on good quality schools comps and providing quality education material for teachers to pick up if they want to make a difference. Schools aren't just going to start offering league because you tell them to. With a strong imputus to change things they will eventually adapt, as we are seeing in the private school system in Australia (even though it is again an exercise of prejudice against league, going to AFL instead).

Nevertheless this sort of stuff pales in comparison to the lengths gone to in the UAE and France.

And it is these examples(UAE, France, Kenya, Poland , Russia, South Africa, Morocco, etc) and more that haven't been alluded to that reduce the growth and flourishing of RL.

This lack of access to the scholastic system is a massive impediment for RL and should not be disregarded in its impact and benefit for other codes of football.

I agree that RL should increase its presence in the scholastic system, but this needs more than just approaching the school systems themselves. Their needs to be a targeted media campaign to let people know of the massive lack of access RL has in the whole scholastic system and then by sheer weight of public opinion the school system will allow it (RL) access and presence without discrimination. A fair go is not being given to the code of RL overall! It needs to be known by the public at large and addressed by decent & proactive administration.

The articles that you have read and mentioned that one of them being good, is the perfect example of what has been going on. It is a world wide repression of a sport and not experienced by any other! This is clearly stated in the first article yet is not emphasized in your response.

This repression of rugby league is reality and it should be known to the general public. The motive for such repression is clear. and it is the wish of RU to limit /cease the existence of rugby league everywhere. This gives the outdated code of RU free reign and unfortunately the demise of a far greater and more attractive code of rugby in rugby league.

 

[LJC]

Individual schools prioritizing Rugby over League does not show that league is banned in the "Scholastic system" in NZ. Rugby is the national sport, the schools receive NZRU funding, it is not surprising that Rugby has a bigger school following. The NZRL has nowhere near the money to invest in a countrywide school system. But it doesn't mean League is banned from NZ schools.



You know nothing about NZ and you are calling me ignorant? There are schools in NZ that play Rugby only, there are schools that play League only. How can league be banned in NZ schools and that still be possible?

Perhaps in your own way you see yourself as an expert in the workings of schools in NZ, then so be it. What I do know is that these stories of discrimination and bias are mostly against the code of rugby league. I hear no stories of prejudice by rugby league over rugby union? The way it should be is that both codes should have decent access but this is not the case.
Read the articles and start to get a picture of reality champ!

I would love to see this bigotry against the code of RL become common knowledge as you continue to justify it as the way things are and sadly, in your eyes, should be?

 

[Evil Homer]

Individual schools prioritizing Rugby over League does not show that league is banned in the "Scholastic system" in NZ. Rugby is the national sport, the schools receive NZRU funding, it is not surprising that Rugby has a bigger school following. The NZRL has nowhere near the money to invest in a countrywide school system. But it doesn't mean League is banned from NZ schools.

I'm not talking about anything being 'banned', there's an article there that clearly describes a player being bribed with academic success to stop him playing RL in favour of RU, and what's worse is that it's dismissed as a joke.

Discrimination doesn't have to be absolutely total and universal for it to exist. I see this defense a lot from RU sympathizers, "these are just individual cases". Well yeah, they are, and when you add them all up globally you have a hell of a lot of individual cases.

 

[Te Kaha]

Perhaps in your own way you see yourself as an expert in the workings of schools in NZ, then so be it. What I do know is that these stories of discrimination and bias are mostly against the code of rugby league. I hear no stories of prejudice by rugby league over rugby union? The way it should be is that both codes should have decent access but this is not the case.
Read the articles and start to get a picture of reality champ!

I would love to see this bigotry against the code of RL become common knowledge as you continue to justify it as the way things are and sadly, in your eyes, should be?

There are people in the world who don't like League. It is that simple. Same as there are people in the world who don't like Rugby. There are vastly more people in the world who have never heard of either.

League is no more special than any other sport on the planet, people will not automatically flock to it because they watch a game. It is just a game.

There is no vast conspiracy to prevent league being played in NZ schools, there is simply no interest in it from the vast majority of schools. Just like there are schools that have no interest in Rugby.

And you failed to ask answer the question, how, given you believe League is banned from NZ schools, can there be schools that are strictly League and not Rugby?

 

[Te Kaha]

I'm not talking about anything being 'banned', there's an article there that clearly describes a player being bribed with academic success to stop him playing RL in favour of RU, and what's worse is that it's dismissed as a joke.

And how is that any different to clubs "buying" teenagers with contracts to attend League schools in Australia?

 

[LJC]

I'm not talking about anything being 'banned', there's an article there that clearly describes a player being bribed with academic success to stop him playing RL in favour of RU, and what's worse is that it's dismissed as a joke.

Discrimination doesn't have to be absolutely total and universal for it to exist. I see this defense a lot from RU sympathizers, "these are just individual cases". Well yeah, they are, and when you add them all up globally you have a hell of a lot of individual cases.

Well done Evil Homer!
Another quick example which will be refuted by the RU sympathizers: I know of two Aussie employees being sacked by their Japanese employer for playing an amateur game of rugby league on a weekend in Japan in 2011. They were sacked for "playing a deviant form of rugby". Haven't heard of anyone being sacked by a rugby league loving company for playing rugby union on a weekend?

Yes. It's an amazing coincidence that these occurrences happen worldwide? The RU people will twist and refute reality as their unspectacular and outdated code enjoy the fruits of their devious and unsportsmanlike ways.

Perhaps one day this bigotry will become general public knowledge but it will a struggle to get the information out there as "ugly big brother RU" has immense control and influence.

 

[LJC]

And how is that any different to clubs "buying" teenagers with contracts to attend League schools in Australia?

Not too many private"league" schools in Australia champ! Most of them are being predicated upon by rugby union influences as the days go by! Strangely, most private schools in NSW & QLD are taking up AFL? Perhaps a "sweetheart deal" has been made between the codes of RU & AFL to attack RL playing ranks in NSW & QLD. As I never hear of any private school playing union ever accepting RL into their curriculum! Same field dimensions in their luxurious grounds as well, so don't tell me they haven't got the room!!Given that RL is the most popular code in NSW & QLD I find this fact amazing and a reflection of the bigotry you defend so ignorantly.
I suggest you find a suitable website? A rugby union website is your go.

 

[Te Kaha]

Not too many private"league" schools in Australia champ! Most of them are being predicated upon by rugby union influences as the days go by! Strangely, most private schools in NSW & QLD are taking up AFL? Perhaps a "sweetheart deal" has been made between the codes of RU & AFL to attack RL playing ranks in NSW & QLD. As I never hear of any private school playing union ever accepting RL into their curriculum! Same field dimensions in their luxurious grounds as well, so don't tell me they haven't got the room!!Given that RL is the most popular code in NSW & QLD I find this fact amazing and a reflection of the bigotry you defend so ignorantly.
I suggest you find a suitable website? A rugby union website is your go.

And I "suggest" you stop telling lies about "friends in high places" and start posting something constructive. There is no "sweetheart deal" there is no institutionalized banning due to "friends in high places".

And you blatantly lie that I defend anything about your belief in bigotry about NSW or QLD schools. I have no knowledge of either. I DO have knowledge about the school system in NZ which is why I can categorically state you are talking out of your arse.

 

[Knownothing]

The long term trend, in Sydney at least, is for the better state schools to stop playing organised sport, or to downgrade it to the point of irrelevance.


Maybe that is part of the conspiracy.



If there is a conspiracy, it starts at Oxford and Cambridge. But, on the other hand, rugby league is actually allowed there.


The only effective conspiracy against the growth of rugby league is led by the vested interests of the ARLC and the existing NRL franchises. If they wanted the game to grow, they could achieve a lot, but it would mean making some sacrifices in the short term for the sake of the future.


And we all know that will never, ever, happen.


Try attacking that conspiracy.

 

[LJC]

And I "suggest" you stop telling lies about "friends in high places" and start posting something constructive. There is no "sweetheart deal" there is no institutionalized banning due to "friends in high places".

And you blatantly lie that I defend anything about your belief in bigotry about NSW or QLD schools. I have no knowledge of either. I DO have knowledge about the school system in NZ which is why I can categorically state you are talking out of your arse.

Te Kaha.
You have twisted the facts again!
I note you use the fact that RL pay RU players to go to their schools. This is a market driven fact that RL is not ashamed of as RL was spawned for the market. It was commercial from its beginnings.
You have confused this market driven recruiting with the culturally pervasive and bigoted stance of pro RU people in what should essentially be free and open education/sports opportunity oriented schools.

You know jack shit about the genuine pursuit of a sport that should be entitled to as much scholastic presence as RU. We are talking about a discrimination against a football code that is far greater than the market based approach of genuine professional rugby that is rugby league. It's apartheid like, the repression of rugby league and you cannot get this into your thinking.

You keep enjoying and justifying the myth of RU and we will continue the fight for decent growth opportunity and presence for rugby league. The bigots(RUs friends of power & influence) are winning as its stands but if common decency prevails, the truth and rugby league ascendancy will happen.

Te Kaha: You are a defender of myth and unsportsmanlike conduct to the nth degree.

 

[Evil Homer]

And how is that any different to clubs "buying" teenagers with contracts to attend League schools in Australia?

I don't know the specifics but I'd suggest that offering someone a contract is completely different to threatening to deny them a fundamental right of academic success based on their sporing choices.

What maths class someone is in has absolutely nothing to do with whether they play RL or RU. It's as stone-cold an example of bribery as you'll find, and they even freely admit to it.

 

[miguel de cervantes]

LJC might be going a little overboard, but I sure as hell have never heard of any school, university, armed forces or institution denying access to rugby union with perhaps the exception of old trafford. Nor have I heard of bans being placed or threatened on league players for playing rugby union. I will glady be proven wrong though.

Unfortunately, the number of examples to the contrary are numerous and widespread. "Hard" bans may be less and less common, but "soft" bans are still quite commonplace and predjudice is a nearly everyday occurence.

 

[Te Kaha]

Te Kaha.
You have twisted the facts again!
I note you use the fact that RL pay RU players to go to their schools. This is a market driven fact that RL is not ashamed of as RL was spawned for the market. It was commercial from its beginnings.
You have confused this market driven recruiting with the culturally pervasive and bigoted stance of pro RU people in what should essentially be free and open education/sports opportunity oriented schools.

You know jack shit about the genuine pursuit of a sport that should be entitled to as much scholastic presence as RU. We are talking about a discrimination against a football code that is far greater than the market based approach of genuine professional rugby that is rugby league. It's apartheid like, the repression of rugby league and you cannot get this into your thinking.

You keep enjoying and justifying the myth of RU and we will continue the fight for decent growth opportunity and presence for rugby league. The bigots(RUs friends of power & influence) are winning as its stands but if common decency prevails, the truth and rugby league ascendancy will happen.

Te Kaha: You are a defender of myth and unsportsmanlike conduct to the nth degree.

And you are a moron. Get over yourself. Your belief in a global conspiracy just shows how deluded you are. Paying someone is EXACTLY the same as "bribing" someone. Your delusion simply prevents you from seeing it.

I don't know the specifics but I'd suggest that offering someone a contract is completely different to threatening to deny them a fundamental right of academic success based on their sporing choices.

Nowhere in that article did it say that he would be denied. It just said and I quote "His maths master was happy to accept him" don't see any denial of education here. "but the teacher was also the school under-15 rugby coach and suggested that a switch from league to union might smooth the way." here is the inducement, the bribe, no different to offering someone a contract to play league and setting them up at a school to do so.

What maths class someone is in has absolutely nothing to do with whether they play RL or RU. It's as stone-cold an example of bribery as you'll find, and they even freely admit to it.

It IS a bribe. but then so is a contract.

LJC might be going a little overboard, but I sure as hell have never heard of any school, university, armed forces or institution denying access to rugby union with perhaps the exception of old trafford. Nor have I heard of bans being placed or threatened on league players for playing rugby union. I will glady be proven wrong though.

How many League players are allowed to play Rugby in Japan in the off season? with threats of having their contracts to play League ripped up.

Unfortunately, the number of examples to the contrary are numerous and widespread. "Hard" bans may be less and less common, but "soft" bans are still quite comonplace and predjudice is a nearly everyday occurence.

Of course it is. The people on this board prove just how ingrown "prejudice" is.

 

[Evil Homer]

Nowhere in that article did it say that he would be denied. It just said and I quote "His maths master was happy to accept him" don't see any denial of education here. "but the teacher was also the school under-15 rugby coach and suggested that a switch from league to union might smooth the way." here is the inducement, the bribe, no different to offering someone a contract to play league and setting them up at a school to do so.

It IS a bribe. but then so is a contract.

That is one of the most ridiculous arguments I've ever heard, seriously.

Apart from the somewhat alarming fact that you don't seem to understand (or don't want to acknowledge) the moral implications, an offer of a contract is just that, an offer. In this case the teacher was employed and had a duty to provide an education to that player regardless of what sport he played, and was using his position to force the player to play one sport instead of another. It's crooked, it's an abuse of power and it's downright filthy. If you're a person of any kind of integrity then you can't defend that.

 

[Te Kaha]

That is one of the most ridiculous arguments I've ever heard, seriously.

Apart from the somewhat alarming fact that you don't seem to understand (or don't want to acknowledge) the moral implications, an offer of a contract is just that, an offer. In this case the teacher was employed and had a duty to provide an education to that player regardless of what sport he played, and was using his position to force the player to play one sport instead of another. It's crooked, it's an abuse of power and it's downright filthy. If you're a person of any kind of integrity then you can't defend that.

Where was the "force the player to play one sport instead of another"? the article makes no such claim. And if the teacher had tried to "force" him to do so, why didn't he, or his parents, or anybody associated with him go to the press? Any teacher who denies a pupil an education based on the sport they play would be up in front of the board of education. This didn't happen, so either nobody was "forced" to do anything or you are being emotive based on only a few words that may or may not have been a throw away line.

 

[Evil Homer]

Where was the "force the player to play one sport instead of another"? the article makes no such claim. And if the teacher had tried to "force" him to do so, why didn't he, or his parents, or anybody associated with him go to the press? Any teacher who denies a pupil an education based on the sport they play would be up in front of the board of education. This didn't happen, so either nobody was "forced" to do anything or you are being emotive based on only a few words that may or may not have been a throw away line.

The article quite clearly states that he was bribed by his maths teacher, and you even admitted it yourself. I'm not sure what else there is to discuss, unless you think bribery is an acceptable way for teachers and junior sports coaches to conduct themselves.

 

[Te Kaha]

The article quite clearly states that he was bribed by his maths teacher, and you even admitted it yourself. I'm not sure what else there is to discuss, unless you think bribery is an acceptable way for teachers and junior sports coaches to conduct themselves.

Its not, but then how is it any different to offering a "scholarship" to a kid to attend a school if they play for the schools league team, just like numerous NZ kids are to Australian schools including one former Kiwis captain? they don't get into that school unless they play League.

 

[Evil Homer]

Its not, but then how is it any different to offering a "scholarship" to a kid to attend a school if they play for the schools league team, just like numerous NZ kids are to Australian schools including one former Kiwis captain? they don't get into that school unless they play League.

As I said, I don't know the exact nature of this relating to Australia and NZ but athletic scholarships are an accepted global practice intended to provide a viable career pathway for young sportsmen. They are designed and regulated with the best interests of the athlete in mind. It's a world of difference from what that teacher did, which was the type of shady, illicit backroom dealing that sadly is all too typical of the way that many RU bodies and officials have carried out their business relating to RL over the years.

 

[Te Kaha]

As I said, I don't know the exact nature of this relating to Australia and NZ but athletic scholarships are an accepted global practice intended to provide a viable career pathway for young sportsmen. They are designed and regulated with the best interests of the athlete in mind. It's a world of difference from what that teacher did, which was the type of shady, illicit backroom dealing that sadly is all too typical of the way that many RU bodies and officials have carried out their business relating to RL over the years.

Emotive and incorrect. The bit in bold especially.

You are arguing semantics in the two cases.
"You can attend my class\school if you play sport A"
"you can attend my school\class if you play sport B, and we will pay for you to go as an added inducement"

As you say, schools all over the world go scouting for talent to play for their preferred team. They are induced\bribed to attend that school just to play their preferred sport. Its never good, but there is no real difference. Ask Benji about that.