Lock of the year

[willvillain]

Bk has made 487 tackles, and Tongue has made 219 hitups.

 

[Raider_69]

OK so i have done a statistical analysis, assuming each stat is equal

How it works, is whoever has the better of a stat gets 100 points, with the other getting there % of the first in points (eg if tongue ate 3 apples and BK ate 1, tongue gets 100 points, BK 33.3)


Tackles
Tongue - 1040 (100)
Kennedy -

Tries
Tongue - 11 (100)
Kennedy - 2 (18)

Try Assists
Tongue - 1 (100)
Kennedy - 1 (100)

Line Break Assists
Tongue - 2 (40)
Kennedy 5 (100)

Line Breaks
Tongue - 9 (100)
Kennedy - 4 (44.5)

Offloads
Tongue - 14 (25.5)
Kennedy - 55 (100)

Metres gained
Tongue - 1500 (51)
Kennedy -2927 (100)

Hitups
Tongue -
Kennedy - 334


Excluding Tackles and Hitups at this stage

Kennedy 462.5
Tongue = 416.5

ordinary way of doing things, a line break is far less valueable then a try, a line breaks and line break assists are far more valuable then a hit up. I mean a simple offload is apparently worth the same as a try in this case

Hell a hit up first tackle of a set coming off your line ALA tongue, is far more valuable then say kennedy taking a hit up on the 3rd tackle 30 out from his try line
absolutely insane! :lol:

 

[willvillain]

For someone who makes 50+ tackles a game, you would have to expect that the metres gained would be slightly lower than others.

Just as you would expect someone who makes 200+ metres in a game to make less tackles.

As for the try-scoring thing - it is a fantastic achievement for Tongue to have scored 11 tries, but I am hardly worried that BK has only scored 2. In fact, I am happy about it - he scored quite a few more last year, because he NEEDED to. Manly had little to no attacting structure and we had to rely upon BK's lethal nature close to the line. This year with Orford we've seen our outside backs scoring more tries than they did last year, and our attact hasn't been reliant on flat passes close to the line onto the chest of BK/Watmough etc.

 

[waltzing Meninga]

All in all the stats are fairly similar and it is very difficulut to prove either way, however what is absolutley stupid are the idiots in here laughing at the suggestion of Tongue being lock of the year. Clearly a deserved winner and anyone else laughing at the suggestion clearly has no idea

 

[Disco]

ordinary way of doing things, a line break is far less valueable then a try, a line break is far more valuable then a line break assist. I mean a simple offload is apparently worth the same as a try in this case

absolutely insane! :lol:

really its the only way it can be done

otherwise its all in a grey area i mean is a try worth 8 offloads or three?, is a tackle worth a hitup? and so on and so forth

And is a gift try worth more than 100ms gained? is a try where you beat 10 players worth 20 tackles

god you could argue forever

 

[legend]

Is your first statement an attempt to look intelligent? Because it failed.

Keep looking at one or two aspects of a forward's game if you will, but for you to even contemplate thinking Tongue is anywhere near Kennedy's league shows who the real moron is.

I'm not only looking at one or two apsects but you obviously are. A lock can't be effective if he's not on the field. Tongue was there every game, scored the most tries, made the most tackles and made nine line breaks. There are a few categories where he has blitzed Kennedy and vice versa. I'm not purely basiing it on or two stats.

 

[Raider_69]

really its the only way it can be done

otherwise its all in a grey area i mean is a try worth 8 offloads or three?, is a tackle worth a hitup? and so on and so forth

And is a gift try worth more than 100ms gained? is a try where you beat 10 players worth 20 tackles

god you could argue forever

this method has just as many grey areas
infact they are black areas... there is no debate about most of them!
A try, any try is worth way more then any line break

you may aswell just stick with opinion and ignore the stats

 

[Stuzmeister]

As I said Swain did not win hooker of the year the year he broke the record. Feel free to correct me, but I am pretty sure he didn't win it. So there are other factors that must be deemed more important and rightly so otherwise Fitzgibbon would have won the award every year! Get us the offload and the try assist stats. I am betting Kennedy is better in those 2 categories. So therefore Kennedy will win it.

Those are just 2 stats.

Anyway I had Tonguey as Lock of The Year mainly as a sentimental favourite. He was in the top 3 locks of the year no doubt in my mind, but BK has carried Manly to 5th with his gutsy performances every week. There are very few Locks that stand out this year but to me Tongue and Kennedy and quite ahead of everyone. Johnson, O'Donnell and Morrison would round out my top 5.

 

[mxlegend99]

ordinary way of doing things, a line break is far less valueable then a try, a line breaks and line break assists are far more valuable then a hit up. I mean a simple offload is apparently worth the same as a try in this case

Hell a hit up first tackle of a set coming off your line ALA tongue, is far more valuable then say kennedy taking a hit up on the 3rd tackle 30 out from his try line
absolutely insane! :lol:

Metres Gained = More important again.

Grabbing a try from 2m out is hardly as crucial for your team as getting them to the line multiple times resulting in tries. Although you can't directly compare from stats. But hasn't BK played less games and also been hindered by injury is most of his last few games?

Sure tries are great, but they aren't a way to measure that one player is better then another. Kennedy is a far better attacking lock, and very solid in defence also.

I'd take Kennedy over Tongue any day of the week. I'd take them both over Waterhouse though. It's fitting that he is one of the 2 not to have any votes... although others with votes are certainly no better then Waterhouse, letalone Kennedy or Tongue.

The Raiders bias on this site is unbeleivable.

 

[Charlie124]

Tongue by miles, 11 tries and broke the NRL tackle record. BK might be more inspirational to his team mates but Tongue is a far better lock.

 

[Edwahu]

What is the use of looking at stats for two players that play a totally different style? Both had great seasons and both would be deserving winners. To suggest Tongue should be making the same meters as Kennedy when thats not his job is useless and the same goes for suggesting Kennedy should be making as many tackles as Tongue.

I will say that the fact that Tongue is on merit at least worthy of comparison with Kennedy is a testament to his improvement.

 

[MSIH]

Hope you Canberra blokes are willing to admit Steve Menzies is the greatest forward ever. After all, the crux of your argument is the amount of tries Tongue has scored compared to Kennedy.

 

[Edwahu]

No its not. That was to counter the argument that all Tongue does is tackle.

 

[waltzing Meninga]

Hope you Canberra blokes are willing to admit Steve Menzies is the greatest forward ever. After all, the crux of your argument is the amount of tries Tongue has scored compared to Kennedy.

I hope your willing to admit Martin Lang is one of the best forwards of all time. The crux of your argument revolves around metres gained

 

[MSIH]

That's just stupid. Martin Lang isn't anywhere near the biggest metre makers in history. Menzies is the leading try scoring forward of all time.

Bring me the highest forward metre maker of all time, and in all likelihood he will be one of the best forwards of all time.

Mind you, I think Menzies is one of the greats, but it's not based solely on his try scoring feats.

 

[Mal Meninga]

I'd have to say without Tongue the Raiders would not even be close to where they finished this season. The amount of try saving tackles he's made and the countless times hes supporting waiting for an off-load is unmatched.

 

[waltzing Meninga]

That's just stupid. Martin Lang isn't anywhere near the biggest metre makers in history. Menzies is the leading try scoring forward of all time.

Bring me the highest forward metre maker of all time, and in all likelihood he will be one of the best forwards of all time.

Mind you, I think Menzies is one of the greats, but it's not based solely on his try scoring feats.

Menzies is definately one of the best playes of all time IMO. Martin Lang was constently one of the biggest metre eaters in the game, however he never had an offload or even a sidestep.

Not sure where I can find all his past stats, but from what I remember he was always one of he leading forwards in terms of metres gained simply because of his style of play.

 

[Mal Meninga]

But my vote goes to Liam Fulton!

 

[JJ]

Tongue by miles, 11 tries and broke the NRL tackle record. BK might be more inspirational to his team mates but Tongue is a far better lock.

FFS - there might be a plausible argument that Tongue has had the better season - I disagree, but there is a genuine debate there.

But anyone suggesting Tongue is a better lock than Kennedy is certifiable

 

[legend]

I certainly don't think Tongue is a better player than Kennedy but IMO, Tongue was the best lock in the NRL in 2006.

Overall, Kennedy is still an awesome forward and will always be remembered as a better player than Tongue as he achieved at the highest level for a sustained period. Tongue is yet to do that but is on his way.