Lockyer > Johns: no contest

[ANTiLAG]

So its okay for people to discuss the individual contributions of Lockyer and Johns to their team's results but nerves get touched when someone throws Thurston into the works. As a Queensland fan who was watched 30 years of origin - I have never seen a half of Thurstons quality running the ship. His dominance, spark and creativity is the best I have seen in a maroon jumper. Langer was lost without Lewis beside him in 92-94 - Thurston without Lockyer did not change his play, plan or control - and it worked.

This whole Qld is such a dominant team - yeah it is now - but it was a losing team when Thurston came into it. Joey came into the most dominant NSW team in the 90's AND THEY LOST REPEATEDLY under his guidance. He was benched and dropped for Toovey and Kimmorley both. It was not his stellar play that caused this to happen.

Qld could have very lost in 2008 if Thurston had not played as well as he did. People can say "Joey carried NSW" but I get attacked for saying "Thurston guided Qld" - that is the halves job isn't it? To guide the team?

Very inconsistent reasoning used in this thread by some people - and I love the responses when I use the people's reasoning back on them. Priceless.

 

[perverse]

you call us inconsistent... but we're not inconsistent, we just don't agree with you. there are bugger all people that do.

 

[ANTiLAG]

all of this is accurate to my recollection, too. Joeys 2000 series was the most dominate display i've ever seen from the bench. any player you care to name inclusive... Craig Wing... whoever. his influence was astounding... and i think you'll find that nearly all NSW's points came when Joey was on the field, and directly related to the play he brought to the table. Kimmorley did stuff all compared to Johns, but was in stellar form at the time... and when you can have the best of both worlds, why the hell wouldn't you? it's not like they could play Kimmorley at hooker...

Hey - you can claim how great Joey was as a bench player. Im discussing halfbacks. Maybe if Thurston was ever benched we could compare their respective influence from the bench. But I doubt that will happen to Thurston. Thurston is so good you actually want to start the game with him.

 

[typicalfan]

Remember Kimmorley was the Clive Churchill medalist in 99 and was in great form in 2000 including starring in smashing the Dragons by 60. Andrew Johns was injured in game 1 and NSW won a tight match and of course you would be reluctant to change seeing as QLD had the series but they needed to put Johns somewhere and he came on late in game 2 and put 3 tries on in short time and took the score from something like 14-10 and in the balance to 28-10 and game 3 went from there.

Also his recollections are a stab in the back to Geoff Toovey who killed it at hooker during the Super League and worked well with Andrew Johns.

 

[perverse]

so we can add another caveat to your list... it's now best, or most influential.. or most successful.. or something... playing at halfback only... at origin level only...

and still, i choose to disagree. lol. to a lesser extent with this very strict and narrow criteria i suppose... and i don't even think it actually portrays anything about the individual players themselves anymore with so many conditions attached... but yeah.

 

[typicalfan]

Hey - you can claim how great Joey was as a bench player. Im discussing halfbacks. Maybe if Thurston was ever benched we could compare their respective influence from the bench. But I doubt that will happen to Thurston. Thurston is so good you actually want to start the game with him.

Injury is a tough thing to overcome. Anthony Minichiello was great in 05 but won't play for NSW again, Brett Stewart may be in the same boat. One thing Thurston hasn't had to deal with to the extent of Johns and a whole raft of very good players. That is why I will wait a bit before declaring a current player best of all time.

 

[ANTiLAG]

so we can add another caveat to your list... it's now best, or most influential.. or most successful.. or something... playing at halfback only... at origin level only...

You're finally catching on. Which individual player had the most success guiding their team round the park to victory. The players ability is a major determining factor in success which is measured in results. It is the most common criteria to judge a successful halfback's career.

Joey walked into a very dominant NSW team in the 90's and choked. Repeatedly. He came good at guiding the team in 2003 - many many years after his debut.

 

[perverse]

Joey had some shocking season enders... always came back bigger and better, though... such was the determination of the bloke. not sure how he dealt with his mental illness at the time... the depression would have been pretty deep.

 

[perverse]

You're finally catching on. Which individual player had the most success guiding their team round the park to victory. The players ability is a major determining factor in success which is measured in results. It is the most common criteria to judge a successful halfback's career.

Joey walked into a very dominant NSW team in the 90's and choked. Repeatedly. He came good at guiding the team in 2003 - many many years after his debut.

oh piss off mate. Thurston is not a guider or an organiser. he's a brilliant 5/8th masquerading as a halfback. Lockyer guides Queensland, plain as day.

Thurston has piss all of the leadership qualities of Johns or Lockyer.

 

[ANTiLAG]

oh piss off mate. Thurston is not a guider or an organiser. he's a brilliant 5/8th masquerading as a halfback. Lockyer guides Queensland, plain as day.

2008 disagrees with you.

 

[typicalfan]

You're finally catching on. Which individual player had the most success guiding their team round the park to victory. The players ability is a major determining factor in success which is measured in results. It is the most common criteria to judge a successful halfback's career.

Joey walked into a very dominant NSW team in the 90's and choked. Repeatedly. He came good at guiding the team in 2003 - many many years after his debut.

1996 mate.

 

[perverse]

2008 disagrees with you.

you mean the closest that the most dominant origin team in history has come to actually losing a series?

yeah, a resounding endorsement of his leadership... no doubt. lol.

you're also forgetting a certain Cameron Smith, who also has more guiding and leadership qualities than Thurston may ever have.

 

[ANTiLAG]

1996 mate.

Nah - he was hooker in 96 not halfback. After his perforamnces in 95 he could not be trusted with the position.

He was however halfback in 98,99, and 02. Couldn't win those series.

 

[Johns Magic]

Which individual player had the most success guiding their team round the park to victory. The players ability is a major determining factor in success which is measured in results. It is the most common criteria to judge a successful halfback's career.

Sounds like Thurston must be a pretty sucky NRL halfback then...(here comes the crap about everyone not being able to grasp that Antilag is talking about Origin when everyone is aware what he's talking about but doesn't give a f**k and his logic is all wrong).

 

[typicalfan]

Nah - he was hooker in 96 not halfback. After his perforamnces in 95 he could not be trusted with the position.

He was however halfback in 98,99, and 02. Couldn't win those series.

You are either too young to remember or too old and senile. Because you have no idea what your talking about.

 

[ANTiLAG]

you mean the closest that the most dominant origin team in history has come to actually losing a series?

yeah, a resounding endorsement of his leadership... no doubt. lol.

you're also forgetting a certain Cameron Smith, who also has more guiding and leadership qualities than Thurston may ever have.

Oh - was Joey playing outside some spud of a hooker every time he choked or something?

Once again - has it ever occurred to you that Thurston demonstrated in 2008 his contribution to the most dominant Qld team ever. How about game 1 this year?

Seriously - you are so inconsistant. Joey "carries" NSW to losses - but Thurston is a passenger in the most dominant Qld team. QLD were a losing team when he came into the side... SInce he found his feet - they have been a winning and most dominant side.

Yeps - Price - Petero play a part. Thurston has playe a major part. Its where his "best player in the game tag" has come from.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Sounds like Thurston must be a pretty sucky NRL halfback then...(here comes the crap about everyone not being able to grasp that Antilag is talking about Origin when everyone is aware what he's talking about but doesn't give a f**k and his logic is all wrong).

Where is my logic wrong Yoda?

I've proven your logic wrong many times in this thread. I

Once again - Origin is the highest level there is. It is the true test of a players ability and standing so sayeth the greats. Lewis, Sterling, all the players say this is the highest stage. There is no salary cap at origin. There is greater player depth than at club. The two games are incomparable. Do you not grasp this? Rep football is COMPLETELY different to club football.

 

[perverse]

lol there you go again... anyone who disagrees with you about Thurston is simply inconsistant. awesome.

 

[ANTiLAG]

You are either too young to remember or too old and senile. Because you have no idea what your talking about.

Assertion assertion but you provide absolutely no reason.

95 - 98 - 99 - 02 -03 -05

Those are Joeys years as a halfback. NSW only won the last two.

The NSW team in the 90's was pretty useful. Creamed Qld except for 91 and when Joey was halfback. Thems the facts.

 

[typicalfan]

No they aren't you simply have a bad memory or you are ignorant. You grab the game guide and it says Joey wears the 9 and you assert the rest. And you say I am making assertions?

Arguments from ignorance only show how flimsy your argument is. If you want to compare then do it properly.