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Madge The Myth ?

Pezz70

Juniors
Messages
1,977
I reckon its worth taking a look at Clark and Seyfarth's stats. They are really poor.

Clark
2 matches
65 mins total
50 tackles
11 runs
88 m gained

Seyfarth
3 matches
48 mins
55 tackles
17 carries
115m

Just no impact with the ball. A good forward gets at least 9-10 m on average per hitup. We have carried soft forwards for too long. No to both IMO

I reckon if they spent next summer at my place they’d come out firing next year. :joy:Clark is a unit, and Seyfarth needs to put on a couple of kegs. One thing that stands out about these blokes is a lack of strength, they are babies. I’d love to know what sort of pounds they are pushing in the gym.
 

Mario chalmers

Juniors
Messages
581
He’s just another toiler if I’m honest. Gets smashed in every tackle
Agree totally.

I don't think there is enough acceptance that WT as a club has accepted lower standard players as "NRL quality" for some time.

If you lose to the GC then the reality is your playing squad is sub-standard.

Seyfarth is a modern day Eisenhuth unfortunately. Eisenhuth has not played NRL finals and most likely never will.

I can't wait to see Blore get a run. He might be in the same boat as these other toilers but something tells me he is a class above. He was picked in an Emerging Blues squad without having played NRL.
 

Tigerm

Coach
Messages
11,037
Agree totally.

I don't think there is enough acceptance that WT as a club has accepted lower standard players as "NRL quality" for some time.

If you lose to the GC then the reality is your playing squad is sub-standard.

Seyfarth is a modern day Eisenhuth unfortunately. Eisenhuth has not played NRL finals and most likely never will.

I can't wait to see Blore get a run. He might be in the same boat as these other toilers but something tells me he is a class above. He was picked in an Emerging Blues squad without having played NRL.
It's been said many times before, many (so called) top players we have purchased have been a disaster and were not giving any effort what so ever, these days, players just don't want to come, that will change, but IMO we do need to pay overs for the right few to make this happen.

I think Madge will be tickled pink with the way Packer went about his work (penalties aside), at last someone showing some mongrel.
 
Messages
14,841
Just checked - I was wrong WT have 10 players off contract at seasons end- Clark, Eisenhuth, Jennings, Lawrence, Marshall, McIntyre, McQueen, Seyfarth, Smith, Taylor. I reckon only Clark and Seyfarth should get extension offers but I have some residual thoughts about Taylor he is a great defensive sweep but has a few penalties in him per game.

I would have to think that the following will likely be gone, whether they move on or they won't be resigned:

- Eisenhuth
- Lawrence
- Marshall
- McQueen
- Taylor

I reckon one of Clark or Seyfarth will go, not sure how Smith or McIntyre are progressing. They may also get let go if they are ready to promote some of the development kids.

I'd like to think Jennings gets told to f**k off as well.
 

The unknown

Juniors
Messages
2,495
I can't wait to see Blore get a run. He might be in the same boat as these other toilers but something tells me he is a class above. He was picked in an Emerging Blues squad without having played NRL.

Blore will definitely play NRL this year. According to my panthers mate last year he was odds on to play for them last year before the ACL injury. Pushed him further down the pecking order etc and released to us

Out of that 23 emerging nsw squad list he was the only one that had not played NRL yet. Something special about the kid
 
Messages
3,309
Baseball bats and boa constrictors: Why Maguire is the man the Wests Tigers need

If you want to understand the revolution Michael Maguire is bringing to the Wests Tigers — and why dropping club legends Benji Marshall and Chris Lawrence is just the start of it — you need to go back to the dressing-rooms at Brookvale Oval a few years ago.

Maguire, who was coaching South Sydney, wanted his team to belt the Sea Eagles into the middle of next week. To underline his point, he whipped out a baseball bat and started bashing up the dressing-room.

Swiiiiiing batter, batter, swing!

Manly fired in a bill for the repairs a few days later.

Then there's the story about "roadkill". According to his former players, Maguire would identify an opposition forward who needed to be stopped, and then a photo of the player's head would appear on the walls of the rooms with the word "roadkill" written under it.

The forward pack's job was to run him over. Turn him into roadkill, figuratively speaking of course.

Maguire was apparently so big on imagery there's an unconfirmed story he wanted to bring a boa constrictor into the rooms before one match. Strangle the opposition like a snake crushing a possum before devouring it.

The idea was rejected because, firstly, Sam Burgess was petrified of snakes and, secondly, BECAUSE IT WAS A SNAKE.


Tigers fans might think this is lunacy. How can this sort of malarkey transform their side into a premiership force?

Perhaps don't question the madness but understand the method behind it because it's worked for Maguire before.

He brought it to Wigan — and they won the Super League grand final and Challenge Cup in two seasons.

He brought it to South Sydney — and they won their first premiership in 43 years in his third year.

He instilled in both these proud clubs a mental toughness needed to take the next step. It started with training like a commando in the pre-season, which allowed unyielding defence to become the cornerstone of their tilt at the premiership.

First as a player under Tim Sheens at Canberra, and then as an assistant to Craig Bellamy at Melbourne, Maguire understands that defence is about far more than systems.

It's a window into a player's character; about how deep he will dig in the toughest of circumstances.

The philosophy is straight out of the Bellamy playbook: train with game-like intensity so, when you get into any situation on the field, you're mentally and physically prepared to handle it. The proof is in how many close matches you have won over the years.

The Tigers are an eternity away from being this kind of football team but Maguire is trying to change it.

It's unknown if he's taken a baseball bat to unsuspecting lockers or called in the snake handlers to emphasise his point, but the demotions of Marshall, 35, and Lawrence, 31, have sent a clear message.

Marshall is a club legend but he was dumped for last weekend's match against Canberra because his defence has been manifestly poor.

This week, for Saturday night's match against the Cowboys, Maguire has axed another club legend in Lawrence.

The performance against Canberra was dour but better. They'd take a 4-0 win at the moment if they could.

But they still lost and the turning point was a soft try to Raiders five-eighth Jack Wighton early in the second half.

All week, Tigers players had watched vision of Wighton and his left-foot step. It's a great left-foot step but it's a left-foot step everyone knows is coming.

After receiving the ball close to the line, he stepped off his left and then wooshed between Lawrence and teammate Russell Packer like they weren't there. Then he used his power and strength to bullock over.

That is the sort of try Maguire never wants to see. It's the type of try you'd never see scored against the Roosters, or the Storm, or even the Raiders.


Whether sidelining Marshall is the right call remains to be seen. Either way, it's a ballsy one. He's the most influential member of the playing group, and the younger players hang on his every word.

Maguire has seen all this before, of course.

When he was at Redfern, he ushered the likes of Michael Crocker, Matt King and Roy Asotasi out the door. He axed popular winger Nathan Merritt just weeks after he broke the club try-scoring record and replaced him with a young Alex Johnston.

The backlash after dropping Merritt was savage. He retired in late September that year but, two weeks later, Souths won the comp without him.

Unlike Bellamy, Maguire's relentless methodology eventually wore thin with his players. Ben Te'o left. So did Burgess. Away from the club, other players were openly critical of the coach's relentless methods.

They reckoned he drove them too hard but his counterargument was difficult to argue with: if you want to win the premiership again, you've got to do the same things that got you there in the first place.

At the Tigers, Maguire is asking the same questions. Who is with him?

Ryan Matterson wasn't. No matter how many ways people want to spin it, he was released to Parramatta because he couldn't stomach Maguire's style.

Maguire's greater issue at the Tigers isn't appeasing his players but hoping his board shares his vision.

The salary cap is a mess with the likes of Moses Mbye, Luke Brooks, Reynolds and Packer taking up almost a third of it. It will take another year or two of pain to unravel it.

Maguire knows something's got to change at the Wests Tigers because if it doesn't change then they will eventually change the coach.

Something needs to give and it might take a baseball bat to do it.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/ba...an-the-wests-tigers-need-20200617-p553kb.html
 

Fordy20

Juniors
Messages
2,297
I hope the lesson the board has taken from the Knights and the last three coaches is that you need more than two years to rebuild a side.
 
Messages
3,309
When I posted the article ^ I was going to add, perhaps the reason he has stuck with Brooks and Mybe is because their defense is pretty good. Get that right as a team and attack will come, to get them both working needs fitness.

Then there's Jennings, so he must be onboard and trains the house down - can anyway recall what he does defensively? Do we just see how shite he is in other parts of his game we all miss his big hits and 40 tackles a game :rolleyes:
 

Fordy20

Juniors
Messages
2,297
I don't expect a top 8 finish this year either, but I put that down to personnel more than anything else. I know it's a pipe dream, but if we got Saab for Packer and locked up Grant by sending Mbye to Melbourne, I would say we would be certs for a top 8 finish and a decent crack at the finals next year.
 

Das Hassler

Bench
Messages
3,337
Its a good article, as he knows it's his head on the line as well.
Still early, but it doesn't appear to be working this year.
If nothing changes by next season, wonder what happens?



Keep in mind that a bit over a year ago EVERY eels supporter was howling for longterm BA to be punted...a little before that a good many raiders fans wanted the same for Stuart. ...personally i'd give him 2 years more than the longest player contract we have on the books at the moment ( that he didn't sign)
 

The unknown

Juniors
Messages
2,495
Keep in mind that a bit over a year ago EVERY eels supporter was howling for longterm BA to be punted...a little before that a good many raiders fans wanted the same for Stuart. ...personally i'd give him 2 years more than the longest player contract we have on the books at the moment ( that he didn't sign)


Agree, unless you have a stacked squad 1 1/2 years is a bit unfair to judge.

It took Nathan Brown what 4 years? To build the squad he’s got now. It sucks he can’t finalise the product and the current coach will probably weep all the rewards
 

WA Tiger

Bench
Messages
4,770
Keep in mind that a bit over a year ago EVERY eels supporter was howling for longterm BA to be punted...a little before that a good many raiders fans wanted the same for Stuart. ...personally i'd give him 2 years more than the longest player contract we have on the books at the moment ( that he didn't sign)
Fair point especially Arthur...it was close definitely. And I don’t mean to be the doom and gloom merchant. My point is Madge needs to be signed on no more than a year by year contract unless he produces..Otherwise the nightmare of bad buying that we are close to finally coming out of, may start all over again except with the coach and that would be unbearable..We have to minimise all spending risks.
 
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WA Tiger

Bench
Messages
4,770
On the flip side with Newcastle the lesson could also be...you may have the good enough players but that’s not enough. You also need a good enough coach...Brown lost a top flight player as well with his temper if my memory serves me correctly..
 

gordsy

Juniors
Messages
2,124
If even half of what that article claims about Madge is true, he's exactly what this club needs.
Only if the who back office buys in. If the assistant coaches, ceo, etc etc all back Madge to the hilt then it can work. If they don't we will have Sheens MK2 where the players run the show and our culture of losing continues. Dropping Benji and Lawrence were a smart moves and sends a clear message.

However Madge has to be careful not to keep being Browns Belechick and be more New England Belechick. Story goes when Bill was coach of the Browns he was known for tough practices, fitness etc, problem was come end of season he teams were busted and tired and always faded out of contention.
When he was moved to New England that changed and he became more like Bellamy. tough but balanced. Let's hope he does the same with us.
 

magpie_man

Juniors
Messages
1,973
Only if the who back office buys in. If the assistant coaches, ceo, etc etc all back Madge to the hilt then it can work. If they don't we will have Sheens MK2 where the players run the show and our culture of losing continues. Dropping Benji and Lawrence were a smart moves and sends a clear message.

However Madge has to be careful not to keep being Browns Belechick and be more New England Belechick. Story goes when Bill was coach of the Browns he was known for tough practices, fitness etc, problem was come end of season he teams were busted and tired and always faded out of contention.
When he was moved to New England that changed and he became more like Bellamy. tough but balanced. Let's hope he does the same with us.

Good points. From what I've heard, Madge has learned his lesson from his time at South Sydney - still, old habits die hard and the whole Matterson fiasco is perturbing.
Either way, I think his paradigm is the right fit for our club; we're never going to be a glamour club that will easily attract top-line talent so, in order to compete with the top, we're just going to have to be willing to work harder.
 

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