Match Discussion: Round 16 vs Panthers @ Panthers Stadium

[betcats]

Understand where you are coming from but this is the “me” generation. The game will lose them to overseas comps or rugby

You would lose some, but the depth would be better developed more rounded. You’ll always get the ‘natural’ pretty much regardless of what you expose them too, but the best way to success and improvement for those a rung below is through education and experience - gradual exposure and development of skills, we are forever throwing kids in the deep end in the NRL

The current Panthers team is testament, they have a couple
Of very experienced heads with 11 or so players that have come up together through the ranks, a couple of talents that really stood out and handled the step up early, and a real core who have developed and learnt the game together. They’re a real team and I think if the kids don’t get greedy and stick together we’ll see a side that can win a couple of premierships

One very interesting stat about the panthers is that 9 of the 17 have less than 50 NRL appearances, 11 have less than 100, 6 of the nine mentioned have less than 35. Its a pretty inexperienced team for a team of contenders. Only two in the side have hit 30 the rest are 23 to 25 years old with To’o the youngest at 22.

I may have misunderstood you but our youngest are Crichton and Leniu at 19. Leniu probably drops off the bench at full strength.

 

[Pezz70]

Any slower and Talau would stop..

What’s this about? You think strength training and a bit of bulk will
Slow him down more? Not likely, done right he’ll be bigger, stronger and faster.

 

[Pezz70]

I may have misunderstood you but our youngest are Crichton and Leniu at 19. Leniu probably drops off the bench at full strength.

Stand corrected, I don’t think their ages were recorded in the source I used. The point I was making is that your squad has very little NRL experience, but are relatively youthful, it illustrates that a lot of their development has been outside the NRL level. Penrith have developed most of those boys over the last 6 or 7 years, not just pumped all their young talent straight in to first grade.

Tigers have some good young players but in the past they have either been cooked playing NRL too early, as is happening to Mikaele, Talau and probably even Doueihi right now, or poached by other clubs.

 

[betcats]

Stand corrected, I don’t think their ages were recorded in the source I used. The point I was making is that your squad has very little NRL experience, but are relatively youthful, it illustrates that a lot of their development has been outside the NRL level. Penrith have developed most of those boys over the last 6 or 7 years, not just pumped all their young talent straight in to first grade.

Tigers have some good young players but in the past they have either been cooked playing NRL too early, as is happening to Mikaele, Talau and probably even Doueihi right now, or poached by other clubs.

That second paragraph is pretty much most of penriths history also tbh. Hopefully we do better with this bunch, we are doing well this season obviously but we lack finals experience and previously we have not been able to turn great young sides into 3,4 or 5 year top four contending sides.

 

[WA Tiger]

What’s this about? You think strength training and a bit of bulk will
Slow him down more? Not likely, done right he’ll be bigger, stronger and faster.

Bigger stronger ..Not faster..likely Talau would be slower with extra weight to carry

 

[stryker]

That second paragraph is pretty much most of penriths history also tbh. Hopefully we do better with this bunch, we are doing well this season obviously but we lack finals experience and previously we have not been able to turn great young sides into 3,4 or 5 year top four contending sides.

Agreed.
Last time you won the comp I thought you would go on a bit of a run, I thought similar when we won in 05. It is difficult to maintain the rage with young squads and become consistently successful. The clubs that manage to achieve this create dynasties...Canberra back in the day, Brisbane, Manly, Melbourne and Roosters... others tend to be flash in the pans. I’m not sure where this current squad from Penrith sit but they are impressive.

 

[WA Tiger]

Stand corrected, I don’t think their ages were recorded in the source I used. The point I was making is that your squad has very little NRL experience, but are relatively youthful, it illustrates that a lot of their development has been outside the NRL level. Penrith have developed most of those boys over the last 6 or 7 years, not just pumped all their young talent straight in to first grade.

Tigers have some good young players but in the past they have either been cooked playing NRL too early, as is happening to Mikaele, Talau and probably even Doueihi right now, or poached by other clubs.

Once you get the right stats book Pezz see how many NRL players over the last 40 years have made an impact and have succeeded under the current system and started playing between 18 -22 years old..There’s plenty of them including many that have done well, very well and then those who are classed as greats that will be the first players spoken about in the future when fans reminisce about today’s game .. ..That’ll do me. The rest can acknowledge they aren’t as good as they thought they were and that the step up is just too big..Theres nothing wrong with failure in life. We all experience it..At least they did what a lot can’t and I’m sure they learnt a lot in the process..Id rather be watching those players that have been success stories and started young in the NRL than not watching them because we lose them to another code or country to play top level competition and earn up to 10 times as much or more if they are less than 21 (because they can’t play NRL) or restricted to $150k if they are 21 or 22 as your preferred system stipulates..The others can try and fail and see you later ..Brooks should be one of those but our coaches have turned a blind eye due to perceived public pressure..

 

[super_coach]

To compete in the NRL you need half a dozen genuine athletes. Players who are big, fast and strong. Sadly we are slow right across the roster bar a few exceptions. All the coaching in the world can’t turn a plodder into a machine. Our yardage game is terrible and our line speed is snail paced compared to the better teams...throw in horrendous 5th tackle options and you will struggle to win many games

 

[WA Tiger]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer...ca-s-quiet-determination-20200829-p55qh5.html

“The way the team is playing is just him” .
referring to the calmness steve Corsica brings to Sydney FC
In a nutshell...

 

[League WTF]

f**k, Douhei is crap. Been getting worse as the season goes on. Absolute reserve grader.

I blame this year entirely on Madge.

Doueihi was never meant to be a fullback. A FB without pace is just as good as a half who can’t kick.

The fact is...we have both!

Madge has stood by Doueihi at FB for 14 rounds. It’s probably the most important position in the team. Think Manly, and what happened to them since Turbo was injured. Think AJ Brimson, what changes he bought to the team immediately since he came on.

Yet, our master coach has stood by Doueihi. The only thing I can remember him doing was catching high balls, which is probably the most basic skills required to be in NRL. He doesn’t support the ruck, can’t punch holes, can’t get the team moving forward when he’s the one who has the most space to run.

Then we have Brooks, a half who has 1 try assist all season. Guess what? Madge decides to use him in the halves almost every round this year.

What pisses me off is we have a proven 5/8 in Reynolds, a natural competitor who has played finals numerous times, knows how to setup tries, earn repeat sets, kicks better too, and Madge doesn’t want to use him...or uses him in the wrong position when the game was already lost. He doesn’t see the energy that Reynolds brings to a team.

Both Reynolds and Mbye should have been in the spine a long time ago. These 2 are proven and already has a connection built from the Dogs days. I believe this is why Ivan bought them to our club in the first place. He knows that our club lacks grub and players who can connect and build combinations with.

Who has Doueihi and Brooks connect with all season??

As much as I hate Ivan Cleary. I have no doubt that he would have took us into the finals this year with the same group of players. We actually have better players than before and we are moving backwards...this is all under Madge as far as I’m concern.

 

[Phil Gould]

I blame this year entirely on Madge.

Doueihi was never meant to be a fullback. A FB without pace is just as good as a half who can’t kick.

The fact is...we have both!

Madge has stood by Doueihi at FB for 14 rounds. It’s probably the most important position in the team. Think Manly, and what happened to them since Turbo was injured. Think AJ Brimson, what changes he bought to the team immediately since he came on.

Yet, our master coach has stood by Doueihi. The only thing I can remember him doing was catching high balls, which is probably the most basic skills required to be in NRL. He doesn’t support the ruck, can’t punch holes, can’t get the team moving forward when he’s the one who has the most space to run.

Then we have Brooks, a half who has 1 try assist all season. Guess what? Madge decides to use him in the halves almost every round this year.

What pisses me off is we have a proven 5/8 in Reynolds, a natural competitor who has played finals numerous times, knows how to setup tries, earn repeat sets, kicks better too, and Madge doesn’t want to use him...or uses him in the wrong position when the game was already lost. He doesn’t see the energy that Reynolds brings to a team.

Both Reynolds and Mbye should have been in the spine a long time ago. These 2 are proven and already has a connection built from the Dogs days. I believe this is why Ivan bought them to our club in the first place. He knows that our club lacks grub and players who can connect and build combinations with.

Who has Doueihi and Brooks connect with all season??

As much as I hate Ivan Cleary. I have no doubt that he would have took us into the finals this year with the same group of players. We actually have better players than before and we are moving backwards...this is all under Madge as far as I’m concern.

A lot of what you say is true but I think once Some cap is freed up for Madge to use, things will start to turn around.

I like the Tigers pack, they just need a pack leader to psych them up, like a Nathan Brown, Tyson Frizel or a Klemmer.

The edges are ok in that M’bye looks to be playing better again, Nofo is fine, Talau will develop but Joey is in the worst shape I have ever seen. He does less and is even more volatile than before, he seems to be more of a liability than an asset on the field at the moment.
The Tigers spine is a real worry.

 

[Phil Gould]

I blame this year entirely on Madge.

Doueihi was never meant to be a fullback. A FB without pace is just as good as a half who can’t kick.

The fact is...we have both!

Madge has stood by Doueihi at FB for 14 rounds. It’s probably the most important position in the team. Think Manly, and what happened to them since Turbo was injured. Think AJ Brimson, what changes he bought to the team immediately since he came on.

Yet, our master coach has stood by Doueihi. The only thing I can remember him doing was catching high balls, which is probably the most basic skills required to be in NRL. He doesn’t support the ruck, can’t punch holes, can’t get the team moving forward when he’s the one who has the most space to run.

Then we have Brooks, a half who has 1 try assist all season. Guess what? Madge decides to use him in the halves almost every round this year.

What pisses me off is we have a proven 5/8 in Reynolds, a natural competitor who has played finals numerous times, knows how to setup tries, earn repeat sets, kicks better too, and Madge doesn’t want to use him...or uses him in the wrong position when the game was already lost. He doesn’t see the energy that Reynolds brings to a team.

Both Reynolds and Mbye should have been in the spine a long time ago. These 2 are proven and already has a connection built from the Dogs days. I believe this is why Ivan bought them to our club in the first place. He knows that our club lacks grub and players who can connect and build combinations with.

Who has Doueihi and Brooks connect with all season??

As much as I hate Ivan Cleary. I have no doubt that he would have took us into the finals this year with the same group of players. We actually have better players than before and we are moving backwards...this is all under Madge as far as I’m concern.

Will grub play next year? I don’t know why he isn’t starting at the moment?

 

[Front-Rower]

As much as I hate Ivan Cleary. I have no doubt that he would have took us into the finals this year with the same group of players. We actually have better players than before and we are moving backwards...this is all under Madge as far as I’m concern.

At least the players most of the forum want to get rid of would have been playing for the bloke and philosophy they bought in to coming to the club.

Madge’s refusing to play Reynolds is criminal. Last night would have been right up his alley.

 

[stryker]

I still thinks Brooks destiny is the 9 jersey.

100% agree and have been saying this for a few years now.

 

[Pomoz]

Stand corrected, I don’t think their ages were recorded in the source I used. The point I was making is that your squad has very little NRL experience, but are relatively youthful, it illustrates that a lot of their development has been outside the NRL level. Penrith have developed most of those boys over the last 6 or 7 years, not just pumped all their young talent straight in to first grade.

Tigers have some good young players but in the past they have either been cooked playing NRL too early, as is happening to Mikaele, Talau and probably even Doueihi right now, or poached by other clubs.

When Gus came on board he was very critical of the Panther's development pathways. He said we had damaged many young player's careers by putting them into first grade before their bodies have developed enough and players need to be introduced gradually. As he said, it takes 50 games in first grade before your body is tough enough to cope and you can consider yourself a proper first grader. So Gus made two critical changes:

• He started promoting juniors to first grade from NSW cup for a few games. He would promote a couple of Flegg players to replace the NSW Cup players and Harold Matthews players to replace the Flegg players and so on. After a few games he would then put the players back to NSW cup, and all the other players would drop down back to their grades. This was done even if the junior teams were a chance of winning a cup. The aim was to get them ready for first grade, not win cups, they were just a bonus. There were a few exceptions like Cleary who could handle the promotion almost immediately, but generally speaking nobody was thrown in the deep end for sustained periods. As he said "a kid gets into first grade and realises how much work he needs to do to be good enough to last a full season. They go back to NSW cup and start training harder". Or not, as the case may be, but you get the sentiment.

• The second thing he did was to get all the teams, NSW cup, u21's as it was then to train at the same place. Up until then, NSW cup was training at St Mary's. By all being together the teams could learn the same plays all through the grades and player's could be ready to step up into the senior team when called upon. They also got to see how hard they need to train to make first grade.

That philosophy had to be married with good coaching, fitness training and recruitment. The results are there to see now and it should never be underestimated how much the current team's success is due to Gus's changes to development. Incidentally, in my view, the development approach is based on how the Bronco's used to develop players in the Bennett years. The Bronco's were masters at bringing in juniors during origin and giving them a few games and then sending them back to Qld cup. Within a few years they would be playing SOO. Now they seem to drop them in at the deep end and this year's performance is what that approach can deliver.

Penrith has always had lots of juniors, but turning them into first graders is a science and to be honest, Penrith wasted its junior resources for many years. I hope that they can continue to follow Gus's blueprint.

 

[Tigerm]

When Gus came on board he was very critical of the Panther's development pathways. He said we had damaged many young player's careers by putting them into first grade before their bodies have developed enough and players need to be introduced gradually. As he said, it takes 50 games in first grade before your body is tough enough to cope and you can consider yourself a proper first grader. So Gus made two critical changes:

• He started promoting juniors to first grade from NSW cup for a few games. He would promote a couple of Flegg players to replace the NSW Cup players and Harold Matthews players to replace the Flegg players and so on. After a few games he would then put the players back to NSW cup, and all the other players would drop down back to their grades. This was done even if the junior teams were a chance of winning a cup. The aim was to get them ready for first grade, not win cups, they were just a bonus. There were a few exceptions like Cleary who could handle the promotion almost immediately, but generally speaking nobody was thrown in the deep end for sustained periods. As he said "a kid gets into first grade and realises how much work he needs to do to be good enough to last a full season. They go back to NSW cup and start training harder". Or not, as the case may be, but you get the sentiment.

• The second thing he did was to get all the teams, NSW cup, u21's as it was then to train at the same place. Up until then, NSW cup was training at St Mary's. By all being together the teams could learn the same plays all through the grades and player's could be ready to step up into the senior team when called upon. They also got to see how hard they need to train to make first grade.

That philosophy had to be married with good coaching, fitness training and recruitment. The results are there to see now and it should never be underestimated how much the current team's success is due to Gus's changes to development. Incidentally, in my view, the development approach is based on how the Bronco's used to develop players in the Bennett years. The Bronco's were masters at bringing in juniors during origin and giving them a few games and then sending them back to Qld cup. Within a few years they would be playing SOO. Now they seem to drop them in at the deep end and this year's performance is what that approach can deliver.

Penrith has always had lots of juniors, but turning them into first graders is a science and to be honest, Penrith wasted its junior resources for many years. I hope that they can continue to follow Gus's blueprint.

Good post Pomoz

 

[stryker]

The Tiges have always unearthed a good amount of juniors who rival those from any other club.
In fact I’d wager we would be in the top 5 clubs for this.
We just totally mismanage and either burnout or drive away this talent once they are unearthed. Even the guys unearthed in 04/05 mostly didn’t reach their potential and had disrupted careers through injury. Most of us have been banging on about this since the mid 2000’s.

 

[WA Tiger]

100% agree and have been saying this for a few years now.

Has he got a consistent longish pass and fast..both ways..under pressure? Maybe

 

[stryker]

Has he got a consistent longish pass and fast..both ways..under pressure? Maybe

Absolutely. He is a half. If he can’t throw accurate passes each way under pressure, he wouldn’t have made it this far.

 

[Pomoz]

The Tiges have always unearthed a good amount of juniors who rival those from any other club.
In fact I’d wager we would be in the top 5 clubs for this.
We just totally mismanage and either burnout or drive away this talent once they are unearthed. Even the guys unearthed in 04/05 mostly didn’t reach their potential and had disrupted careers through injury. Most of us have been banging on about this since the mid 2000’s.

As I say, it's a science. The Storm have it down pat. All their juniors are ready when they hit first grade under their system, only failing when they leave too early for other clubs. The Roosters have it nailed too. Having a good, talented junior is one thing, making them a first grader is something else.