Match Discussion: Round 8 vs Sydney @ McDonald Jones Stadium

[The Axe of Druss]

AOB has hit a major crossroads as a coach here already. It is non secret he inherited Brown’s roster and he either does not know what to do with it or his coaching style is not up to scratch, or worse, beyond them. Seibold needs to be brought in and give his views on a bigger canvas cos both these guys are Bellamy products. That is what baffles me most about it all. One thing is unarguable and that is Bellamy has an almost biblical gift with player unity. He makes his players hate losing and worse letting their mates down. It is not fear he coaches but absolute self authority and accountability to yourself first, second and third.

It's not a secret, it's been highlighted in many areas of the media over the years

Bellamy preaches and practices accountability in his players and club. From making all newcomers do 3 weeks labouring in the off season to having every player, from newbie to veteran, rated on their performances weekly by the coaching staff, playing group and the player them selves. What this does is gives every player a clear understanding of where they sit and what they need to improve on. They can't hide from it or fool themselves that they are doing enough if the coaches or other players think they are lagging, it's all out in the open. They aren't just accountable to themselves but to the coaches and their peers

This is the difference between Melb and us and the gulf is massive

 

[Mr_Knightside]

I get that people are pointing the finger at AOB a fair bit on here, and yes there are things that he should be accountable for but we all need to remember that he’s just one of a long line of coaches who has failed (so far) to fix the deep seeded complacent attitude at this club. Since Brian Smith left the club we’ve tried Rick Stone, Wayne Bennett, Rick Stone (again), Nathan Brown and now AOB and the same problems have always been present.

I’m not a big fan of Bennett due to the way he left the club and some of the things he’s said but he’s clearly one of the best coaches of the modern era if not one of the best of all time and even his stint here was fairly underwhelming. This tells me that it’s not AOB’s fault that the club culture is the way it is, he’s walked into a situation that has been festering like this for almost 2 decades. Yes it’s his job in part to fix it but I wonder how much of the problem is at a club level rather than just at a coaching level.

I would love to see AOB ring in a few changes for next week. Give Phoenix the keys to the car for a few weeks and see what he can do. We need a halfback and this is a chance for him to step up and show what he can do in a role that he’s supposedly suited to.

I would also consider bringing JSaf into the starting side and dropping DSaf or Klem back to the bench just to fire them up a bit. I would even consider bringing Dom Young back in to replace Tuala or moving Tuala to the wing. I also really hope that Lee and Hunt are ready to come back, our metres coming out of trouble have been a real problem without those two.

 

[The Axe of Druss]

Moving Tuala to the wing solves nothing, infact it makes things worse imo

He's too weak and moving him to the wing only makes our pissweak kick returns weaker. He needs to go back to reggies and if Hunt is back next week we move Musgrave to the centres

 

[Zoidberg]

See you next week

Haha yeah see you then

 

[perverse]

They all got a run?

Yeah so they did, I was absolutely fuming last night looking at the stats on nrl.com and saw Crossland at the bottom with zero minutes. Why the f**k they have the 18th man on that I don't know, but it triggered me hard. Carry on.

 

[perverse]

The discussion around Pearce and his importance to the side in this thread highlights just how fickle this fan base can be at times

Late last year and early this year nearly everyone to a man wanted him sacked, deregistered, hung , drawn then quartered. Now that he's been injured for a few weeks and the great saviour Green has been outed as the broken down plodder that he is, Mitch is back to being our Messiah

Never change fellas

I assume that's not directed at me given the shit and trolling I've had hung on me for sticking up for him for the past 18 months (even though my words have been twisted and misinterpreted constantly too).

Either way, people are entitled to change their opinion and/or admit when they were wrong too. It's actually pretty mature and sensible. You should change your opinion when you believe the evidence indicates that your current position is wrong.

Messiah is the wrong word imo. He's just our only leader, and we're a better team with him. It's ok to say that while also thinking his short kicking game is abysmal and that we're paying him too much money. Both can (and imo are) true. You can think in more than 1 dimension and have a nuanced opinion.

It shows how much we're missing blokes like Guerra from last year, and I'll certainly put my hand up and say I wasn't too upset to see him retire.

 

[Knight Tales]

I assume that's not directed at me given the shit and trolling I've had hung on me for sticking up for him for the past 18 months (even though my words have been twisted and misinterpreted constantly too).

Either way, people are entitled to change their opinion and/or admit when they were wrong too. It's actually pretty mature and sensible. You should change your opinion when you believe the evidence indicates that your current position is wrong.

Messiah is the wrong word imo. He's just our only leader, and we're a better team with him. It's ok to say that while also thinking his short kicking game is abysmal and that we're paying him too much money. Both can (and imo are) true. You can think in more than 1 dimension and have a nuanced opinion.

It shows how much we're missing blokes like Guerra from last year, and I'll certainly put my hand up and say I wasn't too upset to see him retire.

All true that. I also think Junior should have been a 9 his whole career. That’s a debate for another day. Great defender. Great pass. Full of energy. Kicking game inconsistent but not an outright necessity as a dummy half.

 

[slotmachine]

Either way, people are entitled to change their opinion and/or admit when they were wrong too

Yeah put me in that camp.

I didn't think we'd miss him much but we do.
He is also still crap.

Both these things can be true and it's a sad indictment on where the squad is.

If Pearce is fit last night we maybe lose by 20, 32-10 or something. We are way past it mattering a great deal who is in the side in what position, the losses will come regardless.

If we double down on players like Mann, hoy etc next year nothing will change

 

[Jono078]

Sterlo made a sweet point on the footy show this morning.

He said when the Roosters offload, it's to someone running onto it. Then you look at our offloads it's to players standing still and not knowing what to do next.

It's something that has driven me nuts for a long time is our support play. It's not just being there to catch an offload, it's supporting the player so if he gets that arm free you are ready to burst through or spread the ball quickly and take your advantage.

I think someone said it in this thread? Where the Roosters have 3 players all running after the ball like they want to be the ones who get it, just pure desire to win every facet of the game.

 

[Knight Tales]

Robbo is such an impressive coach and person.
If you haven’t already check out his comments on our fanbase in the presser . He still has big part of Newy in his heart: The Roosters actually discussed honouring our love for the game by playing hard and honesty cos we appreciate great teams. So very true. I sincerely believe he will coach this club one day. He is basically saying this town deserves a top tier side and we are forever let down. All class that man.

 

[Spot On]

Have a look at what is playing in the halves.

A utility back at 6 and a 35 yr old bloke who has just come back from a major knee injury who should not be going around any more. I mean, kudos to MAnn - bloke has a dig and has been one of our better players more often than not. Not sure what that says about the rest of our squad. Better than Pearce a lot of the time. What does that say about Pearce?

That is a sad indictment on the club, the previous coach and those involved in the roster management in those years.

Go back and read the Titans thread (R20 last season) and you will see those claiming to have supported Pearce for eons were saying the club could not sign him again, that O'Brien would be staking his coaching career on it and that he is not that dumb. Don't apologise for those views that you held at that time - you were right. And the 'evidence' has been there for years.

That said, Pearce should be a better half than a 35 yr old struggling to run run and kick and a utility back who has had to be manufactured to play some sort of 5/8 type role after Nathan Brown's recruitment of Conner Watson in the position was an epic failure.

Pearce he should make some difference compared to those nuffies - a million dollar, 300 game half should. How much difference - not enough to beat the better sides. However, he is not playing and the real issue here is the diabolical halves depth the Newcastle Knights club has in 2021 after 1 player is out for a while.

Pheonix Crossland must be a horrible rugby league player for the coach to avoid trying him for a period in the halves. And if so, why was he ever part of our top 30???

Mnny people thought we had a great pack this season too. What has happened to them? Do they need Mitchy to point them where to run??

 

[Jono078]

Robbo is such an impressive coach and person.
If you haven’t already check out his comments on our fanbase in the presser . He still has big part of Newy in his heart: The Roosters actually discussed honouring our love for the game by playing hard and honesty cos we appreciate great teams. So very true. I sincerely believe he will coach this club one day. He is basically saying this town deserves a top tier side and we are forever let down. All class that man.

I did see it and I was going to make the same comment. Not only did he want them to play hard but he wanted them to play "football" because this town appreciates good football play.

He's super impressive. I'll always wonder how he'd do at a club like ours.

 

[slotmachine]

He is basically saying this town deserves a top tier side and we are forever let down.

We get to watch top tier teams in Newcastle, its just never the Knights.

 

[macavity]

The squad is not built right.

We have a FB who's weakest points are returning kicks and the high ball. We need Warriors or Fijian style beast wingers.

Instead we have little dudes and beanpoles none of which are particularly good finishers, and we start every set on the back foot.

We have 3 of the same prop - all slow, high work rate tall guys with no great punch or offload.

We will never win many games when we make 20-30 metres less per set than our opposition - every set, every game.

We have a great backrower in Frizell who gets no early ball, and a great centre in Best who gets no early ball.

On the other side we have a middle playing wide in Barney, and the worst centre running around in the NRL.

We have two #14s starting in Mann and Watson. And another 2 as cover in Crossland and Hoy. I would only be re-signing Watson personally.

Finally, we have Pearce and Green. Pearce needs others to organise so he can be an instinctive effort player. Green has played a couple of seasons too long and has looked woeful this year.

We fix this by recruiting another instinctive effort player in Clifford, and shuffling a variety of utilities through the halves this year.

There are talented players, but the sum is less than the parts.

Just a horribly unbalanced and shallow squad, particularly in the 6 again era.

We need a clean out and a re-balance.

 

[macavity]

I did see it and I was going to make the same comment. Not only did he want them to play hard but he wanted them to play "football" because this town appreciates good football play.

He's super impressive. I'll always wonder how he'd do at a club like ours.

We had him. We promoted Rick Stone instead of him.

 

[perverse]

Yeah put me in that camp.

I didn't think we'd miss him much but we do.
He is also still crap.

Both these things can be true and it's a sad indictment on where the squad is.

If Pearce is fit last night we maybe lose by 20, 32-10 or something. We are way past it mattering a great deal who is in the side in what position, the losses will come regardless.

If we double down on players like Mann, hoy etc next year nothing will change

Yeah, I've come from the other direction. 18 months ago I thought he could turn it around and find some form in the areas he was lacking again. Now I just accept he is what he is, really limited in a lot of fundamentals, but there's things in his game and who he is that do contribute to the team.

Oh and yeah Pearce being there last night doesn't change the result, but I think it does change the way we play. They would have held their gloves up a bit better. It won't matter against the top teams, but we're bottom 4 without him - mid table with him.

 

[Jono078]

We had him. We promoted Rick Stone instead of him.

Hindsight is 20/20 I guess. Who knows how reading Robinson was then. I know he went to the UK and did an unreal job there and that's when the Roosters saught after him - also probably got the recommendation from Brian Smith at the time.

More time passes the more I appreciate what Brian Smith was able to do for us!

 

[slotmachine]

We need a clean out and a re-balance

I'm preparing myself for Mann, Watson, and Hoy all in the squad next year. I think they will ditch Crossland though, so, baby steps.

 

[perverse]

Go back and read the Titans thread (R20 last season) and you will see those claiming to have supported Pearce for eons were saying the club could not sign him again, that O'Brien would be staking his coaching career on it and that he is not that dumb. Don't apologise for those views that you held at that time - you were right. And the 'evidence' has been there for years.

At a million a season and as the main man, we couldn't. That's still 100% true. Even your brain should be able to put this together, but you constantly fail to.

Mnny people thought we had a great pack this season too. What has happened to them? Do they need Mitchy to point them where to run??

The rules are passing them by, and the pack is too 1 dimensional. I don't care about the numbers, Klemmer is a shadow of the player we bought. D-Saf still hot and cold - and doesn't have many strings to his bow other than strong carries. In years gone by you'd get really good results from them still - but with the current speed of the game you need something a lot more dynamic tbh.

 

[perverse]

I'm preparing myself for Mann, Watson, and Hoy all in the squad next year. I think they will ditch Crossland though, so, baby steps.

I just can't understand what anyone sees in Hoy. Plodtastic.