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Melbourne must still be cheating the cap

SET2JT

Juniors
Messages
1,266
I can't believe the NRL didn't let us sign Gaz for 50 grand last year. The way he was playing last year and some of the comments i have heard here on LU on his origin performances 50 grand is too much for a has been.
Anyway Melbourne are coming first and their supporters can gloat for the time being.
 

maccattack

Juniors
Messages
1,250
maybe what we are seeing now is sheer bloody minded determination. Maybe they want what they believe they deserve. Maybe we are watching true champions of the game rising to the top.
 

skeepe

Immortal
Messages
47,552
Butters, you have failed to address one point in this thread

If we are to accept your argument that salary doesn't affect performance, why the f**k did they do it?
 

MsStorm

Bench
Messages
2,714
Butters, you have failed to address one point in this thread

If we are to accept your argument that salary doesn't affect performance, why the f**k did they do it?

Ask Brian Waldron, not Butters who is just stringing you guys along.
 

The Joker

Juniors
Messages
1,478
The OP must have very little going on in his life to start such a topic for the purpose of getting a rise out of other forum members. Obviously impentent or something
 

little_aza

Juniors
Messages
690
Melbourne WON'T be Minor Premiers this year...and probably won't be after MNF - the best two teams are Manly and St George.

It's hard to say if the Storm would have had less success in years past without cheating the cap - many players did not have their true market value tested (loyal guys such as Hoffman, Slater), and towards the end we were carrying a lot of dead weight on huge money (White, Turner, Finch, Lima, et al).

I am very confident that our current top three would have remained during this time regardless. If you were CEO, who would have you kept - Quinn (~$250k) + Hoffman (~$250k) + White ($250k) or Smith (~$600) + two nuffies (2 x $55k) - simple equation to me. And we could have promote had many cheap juniors to make up that top 25 for the cap and attracted many journeymen as well (already attracted Newton, Norrie, etc). And let's not forget the success Maloney has had this year at the Warriors - we could have had him at 5-8 instead of Inglis (thus having Inglis at centre and not paying ~$250k for Quinn)...or even Finch. Choices pertaining to player retentions are easier than outside signings - the contracts ball is essentially in their court. Making smarter retention decisions and the subsequent roster possibilities are indeed endless.

And why did the Storm continue to cheat over many years? Cheating the cap is like Pringles - once you start you can't stop...you can't pay overs for players and then change the policy, it would mean you'd have a weak squad getting paid hugely over market value...and so some salaries were heavily inflated by the skill around them. Furthermore, whether it was the culture, the rorting or luck that produced our success was no concern to Waldron - we were winning and at the time it was impossible to tell what exactly was doing it, so why f*ck the formula and why raise suspicions with lots of sudden player releases? From his point of view, if it ain't broke why fix it?

The main benefits of cheating are increased experience, greater self-belief, and throwing the footy around in 2010...and if you can quantify this, you deserve a medal. My personal opinion (perhaps biased?) is that if Melbourne had not cheated the cap, 2006-2009 would have not yielded the success it did...but surely we would have been close (i.e. akin to Brisbane's successes in 2006-2009 and Manly's successes 2006-2009). We would have been almost as successful with a smarter recruitment policy, the culture developed and instilled by Craig Bellamy and the team, and reinforced by the retention of our top three...and so I reckon those cheating years would have turned out similar to 2011 so far.
 
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little_aza

Juniors
Messages
690
Though, I will conceede, of all the rot that transpired in the cap rorting saga, the most disgraceful and arrogant was the poaching of rising stars. Stealing others is on a whole different level of cheating to the retention of homegrown players or picking up players off the 'scrapheap', Even though each are stil blatant rorts. The signings of Crocker, Quinn, Hinchliffe (knee-jerk reaction to the events leading to the 2008 grand final), Lowrie and Stanley (and to a lesser extent Isa, Vea and Kite), as well as the rentention of Turner in 2006, in light of the scam, are unforgivable. Shame Turner and Hinchcliffe were/are wonderful ambassadors for the club.
 

SingleSpeed73

Juniors
Messages
368
Melbourne WON'T be Minor Premiers this year...and probably won't be after MNF - the best two teams are Manly and St George.

It's hard to say if the Storm would have had less success in years past without cheating the cap - many players did not have their true market value tested (loyal guys such as Hoffman, Slater), and towards the end we were carrying a lot of dead weight on huge money (White, Turner, Finch, Lima, et al).

I am very confident that our current top three would have remained during this time regardless. If you were CEO, who would have you kept - Quinn (~$250k) + Hoffman (~$250k) + White ($250k) or Smith (~$600) + two nuffies (2 x $55k) - simple equation to me. And we could have promote had many cheap juniors to make up that top 25 for the cap and attracted many journeymen as well (already attracted Newton, Norrie, etc). And let's not forget the success Maloney has had this year at the Warriors - we could have had him at 5-8 instead of Inglis (thus having Inglis at centre and not paying ~$250k for Quinn)...or even Finch. Choices pertaining to player retentions are easier than outside signings - the contracts ball is essentially in their court. Making smarter retention decisions and the subsequent roster possibilities are indeed endless.

And why did the Storm continue to cheat over many years? Cheating the cap is like Pringles - once you start you can't stop...you can't pay overs for players and then change the policy, it would mean you'd have a weak squad getting paid hugely over market value...and so some salaries were heavily inflated by the skill around them. Furthermore, whether it was the culture, the rorting or luck that produced our success was no concern to Waldron - we were winning and at the time it was impossible to tell what exactly was doing it, so why f*ck the formula and why raise suspicions with lots of sudden player releases? From his point of view, if it ain't broke why fix it?

The main benefits of cheating are increased experience, greater self-belief, and throwing the footy around in 2010...and if you can quantify this, you deserve a medal. My personal opinion (perhaps biased?) is that if Melbourne had not cheated the cap, 2006-2009 would have not yielded the success it did...but surely we would have been close (i.e. akin to Brisbane's successes in 2006-2009 and Manly's successes 2006-2009). We would have been almost as successful with a smarter recruitment policy, the culture developed and instilled by Craig Bellamy and the team, and reinforced by the retention of our top three...and so I reckon those cheating years would have turned out similar to 2011 so far.


Excellent, a very well thought out argument and one i think has a number of valid points, If only Butter had done the same this thread would be a whole lot shorter
 

Noa

First Grade
Messages
9,029
Butters, you have failed to address one point in this thread

If we are to accept your argument that salary doesn't affect performance, why the f**k did they do it?

All I can offer to that Skeepe is Waldron came in and started doing (within weeks) what many people allege hed already been doing when he was at St Kilda. Its 2nd nature for AFL types to find ways to skirt the cap.

In rugby league terms we had a presidents cup team (average age 22). There was no need to go there.

And unless you think a Ryan Hoffman & Brett White type makes a huge difference then we still would have won those titles.

But anyway, will be soo much sweeter when we win both titles this year :cool:
 

Snappy

Coach
Messages
11,844
Melbourne stomped Brisbane with players backing up from a test match the night before.

lol a 7 point win is harly a stomping, even more so as brisbane rested its five test players. You must be proud of that one.

Oh the irony. One of LU's biggest trolls starting a troll thread, making it troll free and whigning to the mods about it :lol:
 

Desert Qlder

First Grade
Messages
9,246
I would just like to make it known that North Queensland had no trouble with Melbourne and gave them their biggest touch-up of the season.

Just sayin.
 

Gaba

First Grade
Messages
8,197
smith,cronk and slater is why the storm doing good, not the coach Craig "no game plans" Bellamy
 
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edabomb

First Grade
Messages
7,164
Well actually I think that their years of cheating allowed them to BUILD the side they currently have so technically they should be entering the competition for at least that many years with even MORE than a financial penalty. I think they really should be at a disadvantage salary cap wise but eh. They defend unbelievably. Hats off.

The amount the players earnt during 2006 - 2010 means they can afford to take paycuts now. This is still a cheating team as long as any of the players that received large payments between 2006 and 2010 remain, because they have gained an on going competetive advantage.

Should have been docked 25% of their salary cap this year and 15% next year.
 

POPEYE

Coach
Messages
11,397
Admit it's a pisspoor excuse but Waldron thought it prudent to reward his best players for a job well done. No differently than other well-healed clubs have been doing

for their stars since day one. With the money available to him it was just exuberance on his part. No player in his right mind would want to leave Bellamy or Bennett.
 

thorson1987

Coach
Messages
16,907
The amount the players earnt during 2006 - 2010 means they can afford to take paycuts now. This is still a cheating team as long as any of the players that received large payments between 2006 and 2010 remain, because they have gained an on going competetive advantage.

Should have been docked 25% of their salary cap this year and 15% next year.

Actually they weren't allowed to take paycuts. The NRL prevented this to stop what happened when the dogs got done.
 

Shorty

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
15,555
I would just like to make it known that North Queensland had no trouble with Melbourne and gave them their biggest touch-up of the season.

Just sayin.
Agreed.

That was in Townsville...it would be a different story in Melbourne.
If ifs and buts were candy and nuts:lol::lol:

Melbourne are still cheating, Smith wouldn't be there and this is the thing about rorting the cap....it's benefits aren't able to be measured.
They should have been banned for 2 years, however, they're not gonna' win the premiership this year so it's easier to be swallowed.
 

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