Melbourne Storm V super 15 rugby

[Mr_Ugly]

I've lived in Melbourne (admittedly before the Storm started), as well as AFL territory in South Australia and Tasmania.

In my experience, HEAPS of AFL fans claim to prefer union over league, even (particularly) those who wouldn't really know the difference, because they recognise that union is far less of a threat to their code.

This will work in union's favour down there, because less AFL fans will refuse to watch/attend union purely out of parochialism, compared to league.

That said, the thing in the Storm's favour is the ARU pissed most their world cup money up against the wall, and won't have as much financial capacity to pour $$ into a team to cover sustained financial losses.

 

[Collingwood Storm]

I've lived in Melbourne (admittedly before the Storm started), as well as AFL territory in South Australia and Tasmania.

In my experience, HEAPS of AFL fans claim to prefer union over league, even (particularly) those who wouldn't really know the difference, because they recognise that union is far less of a threat to their code.

This will work in union's favour down there, because less AFL fans will refuse to watch/attend union purely out of parochialism, compared to league.

That said, the thing in the Storm's favour is the ARU pissed most their world cup money up against the wall, and won't have as much financial capacity to pour $$ into a team to cover sustained financial losses.

Do you seriously think that's the way people think?

IMO Union has been stronger due to the Wallabies from the 90s and early 00s which Ch7 used to show live and got good ratings. Most people down here would struggle to name a single Super 14 team.

 

[Green Machine]

Ok, my first post.

Welcome

Yes I’m from Melbourne and recently with all this AFL / NRL code war going on, have been in the recent months scouting your forums.... there really are some NRL ignorant dics on here! But having said that we have someone eyed AFL dics on our side too. So lets call that one even.

First of all let me say I love AFL, but I do follow soccer and NRL. I am a Melb Victory member and watch at least couple of NRL games (not just the storm) every week (especially if I have a bet on) and find them quite entertaining. So you can't call me one eyed.

OK you're not one eyed

Ok, now with this Super 15 announcement I have to say that there is very little talk about it right now. Most people do not care. I can tell you although that many people will say that they will support this team, I can't see that happening. People can barrack for a team (like Sydney swans is the most barracked for footy code team in Australia), but when it comes to supporting them like going to games, watching them on TV etc. that is a different story).

The Super 14 missed their boat when they gave Perth their license. People were excited back then cause Melbourne had nothing to support before then as a whole city. In that time the Melbourne Victory have came, peaked (crowds of 25-40k weekly) the dust has settled and a lot of fickle supporters stopped caring and crowds have stabilised at around 20,000. People used to be really excited about supporting Melbourne for anything. That soon wears off. Now it is more about Melbourne Victory representing themselves instead of representing the city of Melbourne.

Even though I think it won't succeed and the International aspect won’t help it that much either, It might still survive. What we call a failure down here in Melbourne (crowds of 15-20k), you guys North of the border might call a raging success. I call that surviving.

One thing I do think that makes the AFL look a little pathetic is trying to be International when AFL fans don't care. When some of my fellow AFL bloggers talk about AFL becoming International, I cringe too....Luckily it doesn't matter though. What is all this talk of AFL will never succeed because it isn't international?? Soccer is international (A-league is going pathetic), Hockey is International (anyone watch their recent championship in Argentina?), league (seriously.... how many proper countries??? 3/4?) ... union (pretty pathetic crowds considering they have a shorter season). Biggest average crowds in the world for sport leagues

(it won't let me post the wikipedia link cause I need 20+ posts:roll. Search it if ya really want - List of Sports Attendance Figures.

- 5 out of the top 10 are NOT international sports, including the NFL (which a lot of people hate for some reason) right at the top. Why do a lot of you guys hate the NFL anyway? If it only because it is American you have a lot of growing up to do. Just as bad for hating AFL only because it is played in Victoria.

There is a current thread here on the NFL and a lot of NRL fans on that thread are fans of the NFL as well,

Also why do people think AFL is trying to take over Sydney?

I don’t think many people in Sydney think the AFL is taking over. I think a few AFL journalists think the AFL is taking over in Sydney.

They are just after a small Niche market.

The AFL is a lot smaller than a niche market in Western Sydney

Even if they get 20% of people in western Sydney supporting them in some form (even minor), that is 400,000 people to try and encourage to watch AFL on TV and attend games.

I know this is hard to believe in Victoria, but Western Sydney is part of Greater Sydney. People in Western Sydney have had the opportunity to watch the Swans for nearly 30 years. AFL has been on the TV in Sydney at excellent viewing times for over 30 years.

It might increase their dominance as Australia's No 1 football code, but they will never take over.

The first part of your statement is ridiculous, the second part is close to the truth. The AFL does not dominate in NSW and QLD where the majority of Australia's population live. The creation of a second AFL team in Sydney and one on The Gold Coast is all about the AFL convincing TV networks to increase their next AFL rights by 25% because the majority of Australia’s population live in NSW and QLD and the AFL think they will get a huge increase in viewing numbers. Viewing numbers for AFL in Sydney have gone backwards over the last 4 years,

 

[Big R]

The first part of your statement is ridiculous, the second part is close to the truth. The AFL does not dominate in NSW and QLD where the majority of Australia's population live. The creation of a second AFL team in Sydney and one on The Gold Coast is all about the AFL convincing TV networks to increase their next AFL rights by 25% because the majority of Australia’s population live in NSW and QLD and the AFL think they will get a huge increase in viewing numbers. Viewing numbers for AFL in Sydney have gone backwards over the last 4 years,

When I say dominance, I know it will never dominate in NSW and Qld individually. At the moment however, AFL is the number 1 code in Australia, and by increasing its following (even by the smallest of magins), it still increases its dominance. Lets say Hypothetically AFL support in NSW is 10% and Qld 15%, then these new teams might push it 15% and 20% respectively. Still the number 2/3 code in those states, however it is increasing its dominance as the 'Australia's' number 1 sport. All the states included.

You are right about the television rights though, I'll definitely give you that. Not a bad ploy though if they pull it off. If they can get an extra 50-100m an example over 5 years as the result of 2 extra teams in 2 untapped geographical areas, then that pretty much covers the AFL expansion costs. Really the TV networks are the ones in the end covering the costs of expansion (or at least a substantial amount of it)

 

[Green Machine]

When I say dominance, I know it will never dominate in NSW and Qld individually. At the moment however, AFL is the number 1 code in Australia, and by increasing its following (even by the smallest of magins), it still increases its dominance. Lets say Hypothetically AFL support in NSW is 10% and Qld 15%, then these new teams might push it 15% and 20% respectively. Still the number 2/3 code in those states, however it is increasing its dominance as the 'Australia's' number 1 sport. All the states included.

Won’t mean a thing. Sydney is the biggest TV market in the Country. AFL does not rate in primetime in Sydney. Channel 7 and 10 prefer to program old movies on a Friday and Saturday night instead of showing AFL. TV networks would lose money if they put AFL on in primetime no matter how minor the increase. The huge increase the AFL is spruiking is not going to happen.

You are right about the television rights though, I'll definitely give you that. Not a bad ploy though if they pull it off. If they can get an extra 50-100m an example over 5 years as the result of 2 extra teams in 2 untapped geographical areas, then that pretty much covers the AFL expansion costs. Really the TV networks are the ones in the end covering the costs of expansion (or at least a substantial amount of it)

The problems the AFL face next time will be the FTA stations are laden with debt. Their viewership is decreasing due to PayTV and the internet penetration. Multi channelling is diluting FTA TV numbers. Kerry Packer is dead and Channel 9 won’t be in the position to bid up the price of the AFL rights next time around, but I’ll bet we’ll hear some belly laughing columns from the likes of Caro Wilson and Damien Barrett before they are signed off. Even Kelvin Shanky will provide some good humour in the next year or two,

 

[Loudstrat]

What a load of tripe. You only have to read this forum for 10 minutes to see how much people from Sydney and Brisbane "support" the 4 footy codes.

This is a League forum, not a general sports forum. Basically, fans of this forum despise other codes. However, if you can't see 4 codes of footy thriving at the highest level in Sydney and Brisbane -and 2-3 in regional centres - then you have nfi. Plus the media acceptance of all sports, as it should be.

Compare that to Melbourne, where hatred of anything NOT AFL is rampant in the press AND the public opinion.

The facts are NSW and QLD only support 2 codes and that's league first and union second. The other 2 have a niche market and a very small minority of supporters. I'm not for one minute saying that Melbourne support all 4 either but to say NSW and QLD do is nothing short of laughable.

You knob. There is 1 yawnion team and 3 soccer teams in NSW. The last time the Waratahs went anywhere near Newcastle, Wollongong, the Central Coast or country NSW, Sean Fagan would have written a book about it.

AFL is going to have twice the sides that Yawnion have at the elite level in 2012.Lets not forget that Stadium Australia has packed out for each of the FIVE football codes.

 

[S.S.T.I.D]

Being a Storm supporter of kiwi origin I will actually go to both and get season tix for both as well...

Union has quite a solid following in Melbourne and both will co-exist well.

Storm should actually jump on this and offer joint season tickets with the super 15 franchise at discounted prices...both teams will then get good support.

I'm not sure if the two codes will ever work together, but that is what I would like to see happen. In the end it will benefit the Union team, but it will also benefit the Storm and as a Rugby League supporter I simply want is best for the game.

 

[Angry_eel]

Man there are so many AFL and Union threads here that I might as well move to PlanetRugby or BigFooty to catch up on the latest league news.

 

[hgfds]

http://www.rugbyheaven.com.au/news/...eague-struggles/2009/11/12/1257615126512.html

 

[Perth Red]

Biggest concern as a Storm fan is if the Rebels manage to attract some big money sponsors and with RU's relaxed 3rd party agreements they may go after a couple of the Storm stars. Slater and Inglis would probably be in their targets if they get cahsed up.

 

[Brutus]

Melbourne Storm will have to contend with a new player for crowds from 2011 onwards,as SANZAR has just released the 15th licence to Melbourne.
Will the Storm survive an already saturated market?
Your thoughts on this Storm supporters.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...ts-super-15-team/story-e6frey4i-1225796759069

Shouldn't you be asking will the Melbourne rebels survive?

 

[Brutus]

Watch how Melbournians (sporting codes and sports lovers) react positively to the new team compared to the hysteria caused by a coaching appointment to a new team in Sydney in such a negative way earlier in the week.

.

Is the ARU investing 200 million into Melbourne?

Are they talking of poaching high profile AFL players for this new Super 15 side for marketing purposes only?

No, didn't think so.

 

[Brutus]

What a load of tripe. You only have to read this forum for 10 minutes to see how much people from Sydney and Brisbane "support" the 4 footy codes. The hatred for yawnion and fumbleball is ferocious. How can you honestly say with a straight face that AFL is supported in Sydney and Brisbane when the ratings are absolutely abysmal in those states even when the home team is playing? Hell even the Storm rate higher in their home town when they're not shown at some ungodly hour.

.

Compare the coverage of AFL in the Sydney and Brisbane media with what the RL gets in Melbourne then get back to us.

 

[shiznit]

i cant wait to see how this turns out...

the force being added to the super14 was terrible for the other teams. it diluted there piss poor depth even further.

last season not even 1 Australian team could make the semi's... i cant wait to see how rubbish there teams are gonna be when there diluted even more... :lol:

 

[Brutus]

Man there are so many AFL and Union threads here that I might as well move to PlanetRugby or BigFooty to catch up on the latest league news.

Don't worry, Big Footy is just as bad. You'll get plenty of rival code threads there too.

On another issue, just read that Fitzsimmons article, good to see he's used the Weary Dunlop argument again to outline why league will die in Melbourne and union has a future. Class writer. Could have predicted that a mile off.

 

[Babyface O'reilly]

Compare the coverage of AFL in the Sydney and Brisbane media with what the RL gets in Melbourne then get back to us.

Well said sir.
Oh and Loudstrat? Well said too.

 

[Mr_Ugly]

Do you seriously think that's the way people think?

IMO Union has been stronger due to the Wallabies from the 90s and early 00s which Ch7 used to show live and got good ratings. Most people down here would struggle to name a single Super 14 team.

Although it's obviously a judgement call, yes, I'm sure of it.

I'm not talking about people who actually watch/understand a bit about the codes, but people who are defensive about other codes.

I've noticed a real close correlation between how liikely someone is to push this line, and how parochial and defensive people are about AFL / the less they seem to know about the two codes, and the.

I lived in Melbourne in the late 80's (... showing my age), so games televised in the 90's wouldn't have made a difference.

 

[Teddyboy]

true, but if your in melbourne and want to watch a disorganised rabble full of kicks, knock ons, and a whole bunch of dudes piling onto each other whenever someone makes a tackle wouldn't you just stick with the AFL you already know?

maybe they can market it as 'union - bringing sport to the fat and unfit of victoria'?

i wonder how many years of millions wasted and sub 5000 crowds they can endure before they pull the pin.

Your so right as Union was a great game to watch 8 years ago but now it's f**king neither Rugby League or a poor mans AFL.

 

[Brutus]

http://www.rugbyheaven.com.au/news/...eague-struggles/2009/11/12/1257615126512.html

It remains the most astute line on Australian sport in the past 20 years.
Surveying the debacle of Super League, even while AFL was continuing its scorched-earth march around Australia, John Singleton said in 1998, "While rugby league was going after Berlin and Beijing, the AFL was going after Sydney and Brisbane …"
Very true, John, and although you didn't lower yourself to mention the Rah-rahs, at least now rugby union can claim Melbourne!
For the news that broke yesterday, that Melbourne really will have a franchise in the expanded Super 15 competition in 2011- after they beat off first other contenders from Australia, including western Sydney, and also the South African contender, the Southern Kings - couldn't be better.
For starters, we all know Melbourne to be the sports capital of Australia, and it is bleeding obvious that rugby union needs to have an elite presence there if it is to boast a genuinely national footprint and … And what? But how can I be saying that rugby union needs to have a franchise there while sneering unpleasantly, just a few weeks ago, that despite their on-field success, the Melbourne Storm have been a financial disaster and should move to the Central Coast?
I thought you'd never ask!
Put simply, Melbourne might as well have been Berlin or Beijing for rugby league - territory so far beyond their natural ken, that it was unlikely they were ever going to be able to successfully transplant their game there.
But Melbourne is not like that with rugby union.
It doesn't need a "transplant" because union has been thriving there for 100 years and more. All it needs is fertiliser and care and it can naturally flourish.
Lest we forget, one of Australia's greatest war heroes, Weary Dunlop, learnt his rugby in the Melbourne competition in the 1930s and so loved the game that when he died in 1993 he was buried in his Wallabies jersey.
Another WWII hero, Stan Bisset, of Kokoda fame, also played for the Wallabies as a Victorian representative in the 1930s. Countless generations of rugby union people have been produced since in the Victorian capital - including Wallabies World Cup-winning prop Ewen McKenzie - and in recent times the union ranks have been swelled to bursting with South African, British and Kiwi expatriates.
All of this gives the new Super franchise a superb base upon which they can build, a base that the Melbourne Storm never had - and never will have.
This is news that will strengthen rugby union in Australia and hasten rugby league's final retreat from Beijing, Berlin and Melbourne, and send them back to where they belong and will be appreciated - beautiful Gosford, on the Central Coast.
pfitzsimons@smh.com.au

Oh it's just Fitzy having a dig. What a glorious and predictable article from the man we all know would love to see RL dead.

 

[Brutus]

Long live Weary Dunlop known all around the country only for his union exploits in Victoria!!!:lol::lol: