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moltz staying

N.C.

Juniors
Messages
2,046
How has anything the Tigers/Motlzen done caused St George to lose income?

Breach of contract? You have to have a legally enforceable one for that to happen. As I said before, I reckon there will be a term in it saying it would only be legally enforceable if registered (which it is not)

I am a lawyer. And I think you are right in that St George might be able to come up with a cause of action however, it would be extremely difficult to establish damages.

What St George would need is concrete proof of loss. What is the loss? THey can just go and sign another player. What is certain is that the costs of bringing any legal proceedings would outweigh any damages recovered.

Re him saying that he signed a contract and he doesnt want to go to Dragons - I dont think there is any doubt about that. No harm him saying it. If he wanted to go to the Dragons, there wouldnt be this dispute.

I'm wondering whether there might not be some kind of "loss of chance" issue in this... But ultimately you're right - cost of proceedings would outweigh any damages. Only reason for this to go to court is if they want to insist on having the contract honoured. But surely Moltzen/Tauber could offer them something to settle and be done with it...
 

andrew9148

Juniors
Messages
514
I'm wondering whether there might not be some kind of "loss of chance" issue in this... But ultimately you're right - cost of proceedings would outweigh any damages. Only reason for this to go to court is if they want to insist on having the contract honoured. But surely Moltzen/Tauber could offer them something to settle and be done with it...


I agree re loss of chance.
 

Firey_Dragon

Coach
Messages
12,099
How has anything the Tigers/Motlzen done caused St George to lose income?

Breach of contract? You have to have a legally enforceable one for that to happen. As I said before, I reckon there will be a term in it saying it would only be legally enforceable if registered (which it is not)

I am a lawyer. And I think you are right in that St George might be able to come up with a cause of action however, it would be extremely difficult to establish damages.

What St George would need is concrete proof of loss. What is the loss? THey can just go and sign another player. What is certain is that the costs of bringing any legal proceedings would outweigh any damages recovered.

Re him saying that he signed a contract and he doesnt want to go to Dragons - I dont think there is any doubt about that. No harm him saying it. If he wanted to go to the Dragons, there wouldnt be this dispute.
What fullbacks are on the market right now? If this information came to light about 3 months ago when the contract was signed, there wouldn't be an issue. Instead the Tigers waited until virtually all player signings were completed making it impossible for the Dragons to replace him in their roster. This isn't anywhere near as clear cut as you're making it out to be. And I'm sure you're a lawyer ;-)

As for the cost of litigation, I highly doubt the Dragons would care about the reparation, but I also highly doubt they'll roll over and let it go without a fight. They'll be looking to make an example of Moltzen and the Tigers.
 

andrew9148

Juniors
Messages
514
What fullbacks are on the market right now? If this information came to light about 3 months ago when the contract was signed, there wouldn't be an issue. Instead the Tigers waited until virtually all player signings were completed making it impossible for the Dragons to replace him in their roster. This isn't anywhere near as clear cut as you're making it out to be. And I'm sure you're a lawyer ;-)

As for the cost of litigation, I highly doubt the Dragons would care about the reparation, but I also highly doubt they'll roll over and let it go without a fight. They'll be looking to make an example of Moltzen and the Tigers.

Re waiting 3 months to tell saints that is not true. They told them on the day the signing was announced.

I never said it was clear cut. I said the opposite. Please read what I say if you are going to tell me what I am going to say.

Re full backs - was nt he signed when he was playing centre ? Was he signed to specifically replace Boyd ? Or as a utility ? What did the st George media release say when they signed him ?


Re making an example , it is true that some people involved in legal disputes want vengeance often irrationally but I think st George will want this thing over quickly as they gave better things to do. Litigation in n s w supreme court could take 2 years. This involves cost and time commitment.

Finally , why are you so inadequate that my choice of how i make a crust threatens you ? If we were talking about plumbing and I said I was a plumber would you react in the same way ?
 

Bang

Juniors
Messages
1,371
Re waiting 3 months to tell saints that is not true. They told them on the day the signing was announced.

I never said it was clear cut. I said the opposite. Please read what I say if you are going to tell me what I am going to say.

Re full backs - was nt he signed when he was playing centre ? Was he signed to specifically replace Boyd ? Or as a utility ? What did the st George media release say when they signed him ?


Re making an example , it is true that some people involved in legal disputes want vengeance often irrationally but I think st George will want this thing over quickly as they gave better things to do. Litigation in n s w supreme court could take 2 years. This involves cost and time commitment.

Finally , why are you so inadequate that my choice of how i make a crust threatens you ? If we were talking about plumbing and I said I was a plumber would you react in the same way ?

Could take two years with injunctions preventing him playing for the tigers during that time.
 

to_ddeath

Coach
Messages
11,874
So, what other fullbacks are available out there if any? And you think we haven't been disadvantaged by this for at least the next season or so? To say we haven't is a f*cking stupid call, almost as stupid as your rabble of an organisation.... Please spare us the bullshit.


T.
 

andrew9148

Juniors
Messages
514
So, what other fullbacks are available out there if any? And you think we haven't been disadvantaged by this for at least the next season or so? To say we haven't is a f*cking stupid call, almost as stupid as your rabble of an organisation.... Please spare us the bullshit.


T.

Here is a message for not just this imbecile, can you please read what other people say before commenting?? Is it that hard???

I said it would be extremely difficult to establish their loss. What you can prove in a court as loss is not necessarily the same thing as what your loss is. It depends on what evidence you can call, what evidence is admissible amongst other things.

Once more for you - I didnt say St George hasnt suffered any loss. I said it would be difficult to establish. I also asked the question what is their loss? I didnt say there was no loss. I didnt say there was loss. Can you please read or get someone to read for you??
 
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andrew9148

Juniors
Messages
514
For Saints, it would be really goood if they could show that they stopped negotiations with a similar player to sign Moltzen. THen they could point to something concrete.

As pointed out above, there is the possibility of arguing loss of chance.

BUT they have a lot of hurdles to overcome before getting to arguing about loss.
 

Dragons01

First Grade
Messages
9,066
The whole thing is a mess. I am sure Doust would not have referred it to the NRL to sort out if he wasn't a bit confident that they would rule in Saints favour.

Time will tell, the sooner it is sorted the better. Don't have a lot of sympathy for Moltzen with his 'bawling his eyes out' - 'didn't mean to mislead' people comments. What did he honestly think would happen after he had signed a contract with Saints and meet up with their head coach for next year Steve Price. Did he really expect Saints to just go 'ok you changed your mind, no problem'. Even rugby league players can't be that naive.
 

N.C.

Juniors
Messages
2,046
Probably he wanted something on the record about where he stands in all this. Why shouldn't Saints just let him go? Do you really think he's a fullback?
 

andrew9148

Juniors
Messages
514
Probably he wanted something on the record about where he stands in all this. Why shouldn't Saints just let him go? Do you really think he's a fullback?

ItS an option just to let him go. They could just get on with preparing for next season with players who want to play for them. Of course it's not the only option.
 

Dragons01

First Grade
Messages
9,066
Probably he wanted something on the record about where he stands in all this. Why shouldn't Saints just let him go? Do you really think he's a fullback?

Because this has now become about more than one player. So Saints let Moltzen stay at the Tigers, Moltzen is happy and the Tigers are happy and where does that leave Saints - a player short on their roster next year.

Players can't just sign contracts with clubs and then change their minds. What happens if 2 players at a new club do the same thing, where does it end. A player could sign with a club, then get a last minute better offer from another club and turn around and go I don't want to go to the first club now. This is about giving your word and signing a contract in good faith. Moltzen meet with Saints 2012 coach Steve Price and even indicated he would be moving to Wollongong.

Agree you don't want a player at your club that doesn't want to be there but it is not that simple.
 

N.C.

Juniors
Messages
2,046
It happens often enough...

Elford signed a contract with Souths for 2006 but wanted to stay at the Tigers - Souths showed 'good faith' and let him out of his contract.

Turner agreed to terms with the Titans a couple of years ago but then decided he'd rather stay with the Storm - an agreement was reached between the clubs.

Probably plenty of other examples too. Can't see why we'd need to suddenly start 'making an example' out of someone... other than that it's the Famous Red V™ that's involved this time...
 

andrew9148

Juniors
Messages
514
Because this has now become about more than one player. So Saints let Moltzen stay at the Tigers, Moltzen is happy and the Tigers are happy and where does that leave Saints - a player short on their roster next year.

Players can't just sign contracts with clubs and then change their minds. What happens if 2 players at a new club do the same thing, where does it end. A player could sign with a club, then get a last minute better offer from another club and turn around and go I don't want to go to the first club now. This is about giving your word and signing a contract in good faith. Moltzen meet with Saints 2012 coach Steve Price and even indicated he would be moving to Wollongong.

Agree you don't want a player at your club that doesn't want to be there but it is not that simple.

What would happen if every player said to every club they want to leave ?
 

Dragons01

First Grade
Messages
9,066
It happens often enough...

Elford signed a contract with Souths for 2006 but wanted to stay at the Tigers - Souths showed 'good faith' and let him out of his contract.

Turner agreed to terms with the Titans a couple of years ago but then decided he'd rather stay with the Storm - an agreement was reached between the clubs.

Probably plenty of other examples too. Can't see why we'd need to suddenly start 'making an example' out of someone... other than that it's the Famous Red V™ that's involved this time...

Can't even compare the Turner incident because he never actually signed a contract with the Titans and the 'agreement' that was reached was that Melbourne swapped Turner leaving for another player - that whole incident got very ugly and messy.
 
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N.C.

Juniors
Messages
2,046
Of course you can compare it. If you're going to call 'flood-gates', then you can't allow yourself to get too specific...
 
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