My Fear for Andrew Johns

[aqua_duck]

To me ANdrew Johns is a player any team, any coach, any supporter, any team mate would love to have. Off the field I can't comment because I don't know him personally and I think that goes for 99% of fans. On the field he's played at a level unsurpassed for the past 5 years. He goes missing sometimes but can anyone name 1 player who has performed in every single game he's played in? Every footballer has had quiet games, but because Johns' consitency is second to none people tend to highlight those bad performances and try to correlate it with whenever the team plays badly. Johns never goes missing when his team is winning big because whenever he plays well the team invariably wins and more often than not wins comfortably. For years he's made average players look good, he's gotten below par footballers to rep level. Sean Rudder was a nothing 5/8th, still is a nothing 5/8th but next to Johns he became a premiership winning 5/8th. Mark Hughes has never been a very talented footballer and in my opinion is a waste of space yet when playing outside johns was able to crack origin, something he should never have been able to do and something he'll never do again.

 

[Ryan_Loves_Broncos]

If Johns is so consistent as you say then why does he keep getting injured?

 

[Broncodroid]

If your waiting for Alfie to be named an immortal I wouldn't hold you breath. John's kicking game, passing game and overall talent to beat a player is still better than Alfies was. One successful SOO series in 02 doesn't suddenly make Alfie an immortal and Johns crap. If you have never seen Johns stand up against another halfabck than you have seen bugger all football.

Just so as I can join you on your high horse, I will respond to the above post showing you the same courtesy to that of the member your are quoting against;

If you have never seen Allan Langer stand up at Origin level barring the 2002 series you have seen bugger all football

Easily typed isn't it ? I ask you to go prove that it was only series 2002 were Allan Langer stood up to be counted for in the Origin arena. This will be amusing :lol:

 

[Mr Saab]

If Johns is so consistent as you say then why does he keep getting injured?

thats consistent isnt it? Failing to finish a season is classified as consistent.
2002...back
2003..neck
2004...knee
2005..head (it will get too big and explode)

 

[Ryan_Loves_Broncos]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[les norton]

My fear would never be about his talent...just about his body holding up. And I do have a big fear about that.

His talent is 2nd to none.

 

[Mr Saab]

My fear would never be about his talent...just about his body holding up. And I do have a big fear about that.

His talent is 2nd to none.

he has to then stop trying to be mr tacklemachine and step back and let the other players take on more of the workload. We all know he loves to tackle, but now its time to step back.

 

[nqboy]

Watching throught the 80s, I always thought Wally and Sterlo would be the two players I would be telling my grandkids about. Wally's still on that list. Sterlo survived spirited challenges from Langer and Stuart but must bow to Joey IMHO.

Sterlo could tackle but he couldn't lift the big men and drive them the way Johns does. Alfie was an anachronism, you couldn't put your finger on just what it was that made him a great but he was anyway. Stuart could have played in a dinner suit and therein lay his only shortcoming, a reluctance to get his hands dirty.

Fair call about Joey going quiet or getting frustrated when things don't go his way, we've seen that a few times. But he's still the best half I've seen from 1980 onwards.

 

[nqboy]

Apart from that, why should we fear for Johns?

It was his greed in screwing Newcastle for every dollar he could get that led to the Knights losing other stars. Joey made his bed, he can lie in it.

I'd be a bit concerned if I was Newcastle.

 

[Azkatro]

Azkatro, you may kiss the arse of that bronze statue every day as your morning ritual

No I don't. I live in Sydney, so it's a bit far away. If it was a statue of Johns his arse might be big enough to reach down this far

but league fans who don't reside in the ordinary state don't feel the need to exaggerate Wally's ability. Wayne Bennett certainly knew when to get rid of him.

That had nothing to do with his footballing ability.

Do you seriously beleive that Wally lewis had better skills than Johns. That Doesn't mean Johns is or was a better player as I beleive Wally lewis's best attributes was his heart and determination to succeed.

Yeah, that's where it gets grey I guess. As I've said I think Johns' skills are first rate, but that's not enough to make him an Immortal.

But if you were relying on a player to chip and chase in their own half, regather, step around 3 and kick into the corner on a 50c piece for your winger, my money would be on Johns any day of the week. Wally just wasn't that sort of player.

Johns has never done that, nor is that the type of player he is. He doesn't have the talent do pull off something like that in my opinion, because he's not noted for his ability to step. Wally could break tackles far better than Johns, but his kicking probably wasn't as accurate. But that kind of comparison is apples and oranges really, I think comparing two players on a point-to-point basis is fruitless.

You could compare Ben Hornby to Billy Slater and easily reason that Hornby is the better player. But who would people rather come to watch? Who will be remembered more? Being an immortal is NOT about having impeccable football skills, it is about being a special football player with the kind of talent that puts bums on seats. Andrew Johns doesn't have that to the extent that someone like Wally did. Who else? Matt Bowen and Sonny Bill Williams. THEY are the kinds of players who will put thousands of bums on seats for the sheer fact that they are on the field. Johns, no.

 

[Kris_man]

Do not let some member forum vote in nominating you as Quinny's Power Poster top 6, edabomb's no.1 poster and 2004 Silver Boogs for Best Newbie allow you to believe you can simply paraphrase myself or any other member for that matter. The full quote was:

I rate Johns JUST ahead of Alfie as tackling wise, Johns is as good as any defender in the game and his long kicking game was better not to mention goalkicking wise he holds his own.

Oh sorry, I just misinterpreted what you were saying, didn't do it intentionally just to diss you. and those awards i got are very prestigious 8)

 

[Raider_69]

there not an awards night in the world more prestigious as the GOLDEN BOOGS

 

[borat]

If your waiting for Alfie to be named an immortal I wouldn't hold you breath. John's kicking game, passing game and overall talent to beat a player is still better than Alfies was. One successful SOO series in 02 doesn't suddenly make Alfie an immortal and Johns crap. If you have never seen Johns stand up against another halfabck than you have seen bugger all football.

Just so as I can join you on your high horse, I will respond to the above post showing you the same courtesy to that of the member your are quoting against;

If you have never seen Allan Langer stand up at Origin level barring the 2002 series you have seen bugger all football

Easily typed isn't it ? I ask you to go prove that it was only series 2002 were Allan Langer stood up to be counted for in the Origin arena. This will be amusing :lol:

Miamiasaurus, Do you realise what a tool you sound like :!:

So I will respond to the above post showing you the same courtesy to that of the member you are quoting against.

Go back and read all the posts carefully before you want to bring your next shortsighted ill informed comment.

For starters, I have seen all of Alfies career begining from his first orgin game. So you see, you may think you are the Yoda of all things league but just open that little smallminded attitude to the fact someone else may have watched a game or two.

Secondly ,I would ask you to go and take some english leasons or at least have the common courtesy to ask if you don't understand or need clarification as to what I am getting at.

So I will spell it out for you. As I was responding to this

langer never needed forwards going forward to be dominant. johns struggled. ive never seen johns stand up against a dominant halfback. in 2002 langer was sick the first game and played crap and johns awsome. the next two games alfie played awsome and johns was nowhere to be seen. ask numerous former player who they would prefer and they'd say alfie. had more raw skill than johns. i still rank johns second but im only young so i havent seen the rapers and so-on

I replied solely to this post that Johns was no good because Langer got it over him in 02. I never once said Langer wans't a good player or did not have other successful SOO series. Infact why you have decided to turn a thread you started into an Alan langer discussion is beyond me.

I have read my post that you quoted over and over and I am yet to see where I ever mentioned Langer in any other series. I did state and will state again that Allan Langer stands next to no chance of ever being an Immortal whereas Andrew Johns has a real possibility. So what, why take offence to that. There are thousands of great players that won't be immortals. Deal with it. It doensn't mean Langer is no good.

So, Next time you want to respond try using at least both of your braincells.

You know what, you are right, that was easy to type

 

[Greenblooded]

I have never been a fan of the Knights, but I do think Johns is probably the most talented player I have ever seen, a half with a great passing, kicking, running game, and fantastic defence. Not to mention the fact that he kicks the odd goal as well. IMO he will be a legend of the game.

 

[Mr Saab]

Stuart could have played in a dinner suit and therein lay his only shortcoming, a reluctance to get his hands dirty.

thats how it should be...your 1/2back should stay out of the defensive work as much as possible!!
Why risk your halfback by putting in amongst the rough stuff. I would prefer stuart over johns anyday of the century.

 

[borat]

Azkatro, you may kiss the arse of that bronze statue every day as your morning ritual

No I don't. I live in Sydney, so it's a bit far away. If it was a statue of Johns his arse might be big enough to reach down this far

but league fans who don't reside in the ordinary state don't feel the need to exaggerate Wally's ability. Wayne Bennett certainly knew when to get rid of him.

That had nothing to do with his footballing ability.

Do you seriously beleive that Wally lewis had better skills than Johns. That Doesn't mean Johns is or was a better player as I beleive Wally lewis's best attributes was his heart and determination to succeed.

Yeah, that's where it gets grey I guess. As I've said I think Johns' skills are first rate, but that's not enough to make him an Immortal.

But if you were relying on a player to chip and chase in their own half, regather, step around 3 and kick into the corner on a 50c piece for your winger, my money would be on Johns any day of the week. Wally just wasn't that sort of player.

Johns has never done that, nor is that the type of player he is. He doesn't have the talent do pull off something like that in my opinion, because he's not noted for his ability to step. Wally could break tackles far better than Johns, but his kicking probably wasn't as accurate. But that kind of comparison is apples and oranges really, I think comparing two players on a point-to-point basis is fruitless.

You could compare Ben Hornby to Billy Slater and easily reason that Hornby is the better player. But who would people rather come to watch? Who will be remembered more? Being an immortal is NOT about having impeccable football skills, it is about being a special football player with the kind of talent that puts bums on seats. Andrew Johns doesn't have that to the extent that someone like Wally did. Who else? Matt Bowen and Sonny Bill Williams. THEY are the kinds of players who will put thousands of bums on seats for the sheer fact that they are on the field. Johns, no.

Bennett did get rid of Lewis becuase Bennett rightfully knew that Wally's best days were over and decided to move on.

I see we basically disagree over what Johns can do on the football field. But there is nothing wrong with a bit of disgareement. I never said Johns should be an Immortal I said that he has the opportunity to be over the next 2 years. If he comes back after these few years lost and gets back to the top of his game for Newcastle, NSW and Australia then he may well be. But if he has two more seasons of breaking down he has no chance.

One thing you are wrong about is his ability to put bums on seats. The Knights paying through the nose to re-sign him is directly linked to his ability to put bums on seats which are cruicial to the Knights financial survival.

Putting the immortal business aside, IMO he is the most talented, skilful footballer in the last 25 years, at least.

 

[Broncodroid]

Miamiasaurus, Do you realise what a tool you sound like :!:

Whilst not my intention, I can wear the cap wanting to know what others on this forum must be labelled by yourself if I am regarded a "tool".

Go back and read all the posts carefully before you want to bring your next shortsighted ill informed comment.

For starters, I have seen all of Alfies career begining from his first orgin game. So you see, you may think you are the Yoda of all things league but just open that little smallminded attitude to the fact someone else may have watched a game or two.

I will give you that, after re-reading your initial post I actually did take the wrong path in my reply which suggested you were of the think Alfie only had the one decent series. Appologies, I stand corrected.

I, like you, have seen Alfies career in it's entirety hence why I am quick to defend the original comment from a member that Johns 'was 10 times the footballer' of Alf. (This is where Allan Langer came into this debate I might point out.)

you may think you are the Yoda of all things league but just open that little smallminded attitude to the fact someone else may have watched a game or two.

No, I do not think I am the Yoda of all things league, but if that it is how it is being percieved by some I make no appologies as I can back up my posts unlike a large number on this forum who make jibberish an art form. No Borat, you would not be part of that select group, but if it's all the same, I am not one who is a fan of sci-fi movies.

I have read my post that you quoted over and over and I am yet to see where I ever mentioned Langer in any other series. I did state and will state again that Allan Langer stands next to no chance of ever being an Immortal whereas Andrew Johns has a real possibility. So what, why take offence to that. There are thousands of great players that won't be immortals. Deal with it. It doensn't mean Langer is no good.

Again, I admit fault on my own behalf who read the original post incorrectly which led myself down another path.

As for Langer not making the Immortals, that's your opinion as is mine, as you asked of me, please point out where I labelled Alf an immortal ? Johns yes, Alfie no is where I stand on that topic.

 

[borat]

As for Langer not making the Immortals, that's your opinion as is mine, as you asked of me, please point out where I labelled Alf an immortal ? Johns yes, Alfie no is where I stand on that topic.

Fair enough. I assumed this is what you were taking offence at but you know what they say about making assumptions. I was wrong here.

Misunderstandings all round and Aplolgies accepted.

 

[Broncodroid]

As for Langer not making the Immortals, that's your opinion as is mine, as you asked of me, please point out where I labelled Alf an immortal ? Johns yes, Alfie no is where I stand on that topic.

Fair enough. I assumed this is what you were taking offence at but you know what they say about making assumptions. I was wrong here.

Misunderstandings all round and Aplolgies accepted.

Cheers ;-) Refreshing to see someone with the ability to move on whilst at the same providing knowledgable debate.

Back to the thread...

Can I take the thread in another direction folks.

Where do you see selectors going if and when (he may yet again be injured) the time comes to name rep teams for 2005 ? Do the selectors show loyalty to Andrew Johns for past performances and reputation as QLD selectors did for our own Gordan Tallis ?

Most know selectors are the hardest people in the world to pick (who honestly saw the Ben Hornby selection coming ?) and Johns in many circles is still seen as a certain selection if he puts his hand up for selection in form or not.

Yes, it's hard to predict where he will be at that stage of the year, but let's just say he is playing ok but behind the like of Gower and Orford ? Do selectors opt for Johns or look to the form players ahead of him ?

 

[TIGERPies]

Andrew Johns should have retired i agree with you