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Nathan Cleary

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betcats

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franklin2323 said:
That is why there is video sessions and stats.
It isn't just x player made 40 tackles that coaches use. Of those 40. How many were 1 on 1. How many did a slow play the ball follow. How many were try savers etc.

That with the video will give those that want to know how a player went to best info. We only see limited stats so use what we see more but these sports with multi million dollar budgets have alot more then we do.
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Im not talking about what the clubs and coaches look at, im talking about the fans on here who will just throw up stats without any context.
 
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betcats

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MrBlack said:
Agree. Stats can be misleading.

What about a forward who is used to run the ball up from the kickoff. He gets an easy 15-20 meter run before contact. 3-4 of those a game and he is almost guaranteed to make 100m. Or a forward who comes on fresh late in the game will generally make more meters per run against a tired opposition.

Personally, for me, they are more of a guide than a rule as to how a player is going.
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Exactly. There are a million ways the stats can overstate or understate a players impact, they certainly have a place in analysis but watching the game will always tell you the most.
 
herbert henry1908

herbert henry1908

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21,880
Some stats can be misleading, but some are more accurate than others.

Need to consider what the stat is relative to the position of the player.
 
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betcats

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23,956
herbert henry1908 said:
Some stats can be misleading, but some are more accurate than others.

Need to consider what the stat is relative to the position of the player.
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Yeah that is true.

I think stats are more valuable to coaches when looking at team performance stats, I think the trends they see there can say a lot about what a team is doing well or not doing well.

They obviously give us a lot of information when looking at individual player statistics but I think any analysis based purely off statistics should be taken with a grain of salt.
 
Pomoz

Pomoz

Bench
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2,991
MrBlack said:
Agree. Stats can be misleading.

What about a forward who is used to run the ball up from the kickoff. He gets an easy 15-20 meter run before contact. 3-4 of those a game and he is almost guaranteed to make 100m. Or a forward who comes on fresh late in the game will generally make more meters per run against a tired opposition.

Personally, for me, they are more of a guide than a rule as to how a player is going.
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But they have stats to record who returns kicks and so they know exactly how may metres a prop is getting off kick returns. The eyes are also a good common sense check but it is impossible to remember the metres, tackles and the zones where they occur for 17 players over 80 minutes. Franklin is spot on. Add the video reviews to a rich set of data and you have an ability to absolutely analyse what is going on with your team. Getting them to change their behavior after doing the analysis is a different matter.

The argument about stats being misleading maybe valid, but statistics are often misunderstood when all the available data isn’t seen. Hindmarsh’s tackles can be analysed by what number tackler he was, did an offload occur, how many post contact metres were made, how fast was the resulting play the ball, how many errors were forced and so on. It is The same with missed tackles. How many result in a try? How many lead to a second player being able to tackle them within a few metres? I believe that analysis would show that Maloneys missed tackles are not as big an issue as some think, but I don’t have the data to support that, however, I’m sure the club does.
 
franklin2323

franklin2323

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33,546
MrBlack said:
Agree. Stats can be misleading.

What about a forward who is used to run the ball up from the kickoff. He gets an easy 15-20 meter run before contact. 3-4 of those a game and he is almost guaranteed to make 100m. Or a forward who comes on fresh late in the game will generally make more meters per run against a tired opposition.

Personally, for me, they are more of a guide than a rule as to how a player is going.
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Same could be said for the back 3 that get 20-30m before the defence gets there. It does allow you to compare in the position though.

That is why if a team is struggling they will often rotate the pack or something not always does x guy off the bench do the job when starting. Usually when players have recovery coaching staff are having meetings with all the data and video planing the week ahead
 
soc123_au

soc123_au

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Paul Gallen is another classic as to why stats arent everything. Great for supercoach him running 200 metres, but when 80 of them are 4 metre darts in the attacking 20 twice a set its not that great for the team. It was no surprise the Sharks went to another level when Flanno made Gal get the f**k out of the way.

Same deal in QLD's glory run. Farrah, Gal & Bird were the stat kings. We couldnt win a series though.
 
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soc123_au said:
Paul Gallen is another classic as to why stats arent everything. Great for supercoach him running 200 metres, but when 80 of them are 4 metre darts in the attacking 20 twice a set its not that great for the team. It was no surprise the Sharks went to another level when Flanno made Gal get the f**k out of the way.

Same deal in QLD's glory run. Farrah, Gal & Bird were the stat kings. We couldnt win a series though.
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Very good point. Some players get their at the expense of the team. Gal was a classic. Stat padding like that is fairly common in the nba.
 
soc123_au

soc123_au

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betcats said:
Very good point. Some players get their at the expense of the team. Gal was a classic. Stat padding like that is fairly common in the nba.
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Gal being a stat padder has tarnished his legacy somewhat. His effort could never be questioned and he wasnt afraid of doing the tough carries. But the superhuman effort in that Origin game kind of f**ked him, it was like from that point on he felt he had to hit those numbers every game no matter what. Farrah has always been about the stats & Bird was just a hog who the coaches at that time couldnt reign in. Such a frustrating era.

Taumalolo on the other hand hits the numbers just by being a hard running stud. Players like him are just freaks though.
 
Black Diamond

Black Diamond

Juniors
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1,178
Thought it was pretty classy of Pearce to put his arm around Clearys shoulder and walk with him to the rest of the team for the team celebrations and photos. Good to see Sims invoved also.

However, Cleary played 1st game and half of second game and Sims played 1 game. Why werent the blokes thst were dropped after 1st game there also? I know they lost that game but they played as much footy in the series as Sims.Obviously if you are injured or suspended your included but you arent if you get dropped. Just seems a bit strange.
 
herbert henry1908

herbert henry1908

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21,880
Black Diamond said:
Thought it was pretty classy of Pearce to put his arm around Clearys shoulder and walk with him to the rest of the team for the team celebrations and photos. Good to see Sims invoved also.

However, Cleary played 1st game and half of second game and Sims played 1 game. Why werent the blokes thst were dropped after 1st game there also? I know they lost that game but they played as much footy in the series as Sims.Obviously if you are injured or suspended your included but you arent if you get dropped. Just seems a bit strange.
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If I’d been dropped I probably wouldn’t want to be there tbh
 
OldPanther

OldPanther

Coach
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13,404
Black Diamond said:
Thought it was pretty classy of Pearce to put his arm around Clearys shoulder and walk with him to the rest of the team for the team celebrations and photos. Good to see Sims invoved also.

However, Cleary played 1st game and half of second game and Sims played 1 game. Why werent the blokes thst were dropped after 1st game there also? I know they lost that game but they played as much footy in the series as Sims.Obviously if you are injured or suspended your included but you arent if you get dropped. Just seems a bit strange.
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Because without injury or suspension those players would be there. The dropped players were deemed not good enough.
 
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