Nathan Cleary

[BxTom]

I’m talking about the squad, do they believe they have the right players to go deep. I’m fairly certain the club would set a benchmark for the season based on a range of conditions.

Yes, sort of. But unless you have a squad so depleted like the doggies, you just never know do you? There are probably 8 - 10 teams that could win it. It only take a couple of bad games from the big teams at the wrong time...

 

[herbert henry1908]

Yes, sort of. But unless you have a squad so depleted like the doggies, you just never know do you? There are probably 8 - 10 teams that could win it. It only take a couple of bad games from the big teams at the wrong time...

Sure, there’s always a chance we could win I guess. Tough issue for the club, Luai has been a understudy for a while now. If he didn’t get the gig until 2021 he’d be 24 before he became a regular first grader. (Ie. other teams might come knocking)

 

[herbert henry1908]

Our backline is already too small. Not sure its a realistic option

I think it as more short than small. Mansour & Blake are solid guys, Cleary one of the bigger halves. Naden is also listed at 98kg.

 

[TheFrog]

He's 34 next year. Mentally he'll be as good as ever but physically he'll start falling behind. Even Cam Smithler isn't what he was a year ago.

Cam is 3 years older but he's a freak really to be able to play as long as he has, and with very few injuries too. The games played record he finally sets will never be beaten, and his side is running first with a minimum of fuss. Anyway Jimmy is three years younger and still going good but has a tendency to drift in and out of form, but he's had that for years. I doubt he's good for 3 years but I don't think we should move him on at the end of this season.

 

[franklin2323]

Luai is good enough to be a starting 5/8 in the NRL right now, obviously Maloney is a much better player, not even a comparison, but the question the club needs to ask itself is can they win a premiership next year. If the answer is no, then it does make some sense to move on to Luai.

What are all Luai’s faults?

Luai's unproven. Therefore questions on game management and consistency. Certainly has x factor but often with x factor comes up and down

 

[herbert henry1908]

Luai's unproven. Therefore questions on game management and consistency. Certainly has x factor but often with x factor comes up and down

There’s no doubt he’s unproven, but he’s good enough to have a starting gig somewhere. Everyone starts out unproven.

 

[franklin2323]

There’s no doubt he’s unproven, but he’s good enough to have a starting gig somewhere. Everyone starts out unproven.

They do but those unproven guys atleast dominate lower grades. Ivan is using him very bad either give him decent gametime in FG or keep him down. Atleast he will get a month or so playing regular footy

 

[OldPanther]

https://www.penrithpanthers.com.au/news/2019/06/25/westfund-injury-update-nathan-cleary/

Westfund Injury Update: Nathan Cleary
Panthers playmaker Nathan Cleary will avoid surgery after scans revealed the nature of the ankle injury he suffered in the NSW Blues victory over Queensland on Sunday.

Cleary has been diagnosed with a high grade lateral ankle injury and is currently dealing with a large amount of swelling.

Fortunately the scans showed the syndesmosis in Cleary's right ankle remains intact.

The 21-year-old will be sidelined for up to four weeks, likely ruling him out of the State of Origin decider at ANZ Stadium.

Cleary's immediate replacement in the Panthers side to face New Zealand Warriors will be revealed when coach Ivan Cleary names his squad on Tuesday.

 

[franklin2323]

4 weeks is a good outcome for that type of injury. Throw in a bye too and may only be 2 games

 

[age.s]

I think the coaches get a whole lot more stats than we ever see. I saw a Brian Smith article where he knew how many 2nd tackles a player did versus first tackles and how many passes were made in each zone of the field. He was able to identify the teams who were moving the ball around the most and what teams were doing static one up hits, by looking at the stats.

We get none of that information. Who dives on loose balls? Whose tackles force errors? How many clearing kicks hit the ground and the average time for the fullback to get the ball. How many bombs lead to errors by the opposition catcher? There is so much information that can be recorded but isn't shown to us and it would give us much better insights into the game and explain why a player like Cleary may be better than we think he is. Or worse for that matter!

Thing is we do get that information. We see it. We watch the game and assign different levels of value (albeit subjective) to different plays. The raw numbers we get don't do that.

I know at this point the "eyes vs stats" debate is pretty overblown but there really is a place for both in modern fandom.

 

[franklin2323]

Thing is we do get that information. We see it. We watch the game and assign different levels of value (albeit subjective) to different plays. The raw numbers we get don't do that.

I know at this point the "eyes vs stats" debate is pretty overblown but there really is a place for both in modern fandom.

The thing to add too is stats are clear. The eyes side of it is subjective

 

[Dave's mate]

The thing to add too is stats are clear. The eyes side of it is subjective

So are stats, Nathan Hindmarsh tackles for example

 

[betcats]

The thing to add too is stats are clear. The eyes side of it is subjective

The numbers without context can be very misleading.

 

[franklin2323]

The numbers without context can be very misleading.

Stats aren't wrong. How you interpret them is the issue

 

[franklin2323]

So are stats, Nathan Hindmarsh tackles for example

He made those tackles though you can't dispute that. You can dispute if they were effective or not but he still made those tackles

 

[betcats]

Stats aren't wrong. How you interpret them is the issue

Disagree, the numbers can easily be padded. Just looking at raw numbers without context doesn't tell you a lot at all.

Mitch moses most seasons puts up numbers that has him up there with the best halves in the comp. Who actually thinks he is anywhere near as good as the DCEs, Kearys and Munsters? How many times has he even played final football? There are lots of intangibles that aren't measured by any stat, the numbers never tell the full story of a players impact.

 

[franklin2323]

Disagree, the numbers can easily be padded. Just looking at raw numbers without context doesn't tell you a lot at all.

Mitch moses most seasons puts up numbers that has him up there with the best halves in the comp. Who actually thinks he is anywhere near as good as the DCEs, Kearys and Munsters? How many times has he even played final football? There are lots of intangibles that aren't measured by any stat, the numbers never tell the full story of a players impact.

Yes but that is what the guy on the laptop next to coaches is doing. Adding the stats with other things. Also the video review coaches do adds what they see too that too

For example. We know Penrith have most tackles inside the 20.
The club stat guru could tell you how many of those tackles went to the x player or we dropped say 5% of them. or had 6 get to the try line only to be called no try etc.

That together is what coaches use to workout what tactics/Players too use

 

[betcats]

He made those tackles though you can't dispute that. You can dispute if they were effective or not but he still made those tackles

You can only dispute how effective they are if you see the tackles though, if you've just seen the numbers you have no idea if they were all one on one hits or 3rd man flops, you have to believe that they were all effective tackles. Watching Hindy for the entire game will give you a more accurate idea of his impact in that game then not watching and just looking at his stats after.

 

[franklin2323]

You can only dispute how effective they are if you see the tackles though, if you've just seen the numbers you have no idea if they were all one on one hits or 3rd man flops, you have to believe that they were all effective tackles. Watching Hindy for the entire game will give you a more accurate idea of his impact in that game then not watching and just looking at his stats after.

That is why there is video sessions and stats.
It isn't just x player made 40 tackles that coaches use. Of those 40. How many were 1 on 1. How many did a slow play the ball follow. How many were try savers etc.

That with the video will give those that want to know how a player went to best info. We only see limited stats so use what we see more but these sports with multi million dollar budgets have alot more then we do.

 

[MrBlack]

That is why there is video sessions and stats.
It isn't just x player made 40 tackles that coaches use. Of those 40. How many were 1 on 1. How many did a slow play the ball follow. How many were try savers etc.

That with the video will give those that want to know how a player went to best info. We only see limited stats so use what we see more but these sports with multi million dollar budgets have alot more then we do.

Agree. Stats can be misleading.

What about a forward who is used to run the ball up from the kickoff. He gets an easy 15-20 meter run before contact. 3-4 of those a game and he is almost guaranteed to make 100m. Or a forward who comes on fresh late in the game will generally make more meters per run against a tired opposition.

Personally, for me, they are more of a guide than a rule as to how a player is going.