New York and Ottawa

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

I wonder if all this North American expansion in the UK leagues will help the likes of Perth and Brisbane2 etc in the NRL expansion??

My hope is that the SL gets huge amounts of new cash from the TV deals in the new markets and starts to buy up all the NRLs best....

I think the reason the NRL has stagnated since SL was because our top grade didnt have any competition for the first time. Qrl and Nswrl both pushed eachother to do better.

I think the NRL has lost the fear it needs to keep improving...

 

[Pommy]

Well if nothing else they brought an aggregate of over 80,000 fans to watch Rugby League in Canada, are adding a fourth game of TV content in the UK which is being watched by 50K+ each week just in the UK, generating numerous articles both in the UK and Canada, attracting sponsorship and investment from groups previously never involved in the game, invested significantly into the Jamaican Rugby League School system, provided venues and support to the Ontario and Canada Rugby League's, sponsored the Raven's Women's team, Brasil Rugby League and invested into the London Skolars.

So you're right, they've done nothing to help develop the game....

Yeah ok I admit I misspoke but you can’t discount the English teams producing the players these sides are going to be using as nothing either.

 

[yakstorm]

Yeah ok I admit I misspoke but you can’t discount the English teams producing the players these sides are going to be using as nothing either.

Completely agree and personally would love to see Toronto do more, but I understand that they are just trying to balance everything currently, and that they are helping the sport in other ways.

The one thing I'm hopeful of, is the chat both from Ottawa and NYC to try and build a Development League.

I would hope that Toronto would join that and we would have 3 - 5 teams running around that will with predominantly contain North American talent.

For Canada especially, if they targeted some of the top Union players aged 17 - 21 they'd be able to turn some into good League players after a few years in a proper Development structure.

 

[Pommy]

Completely agree and personally would love to see Toronto do more, but I understand that they are just trying to balance everything currently, and that they are helping the sport in other ways.

The one thing I'm hopeful of, is the chat both from Ottawa and NYC to try and build a Development League.

I would hope that Toronto would join that and we would have 3 - 5 teams running around that will with predominantly contain North American talent.

For Canada especially, if they targeted some of the top Union players aged 17 - 21 they'd be able to turn some into good League players after a few years in a proper Development structure.

I’m totally not against Toronto or anyone else I just want them to succeed on merit. Toronto are more than capable of it.
I hate the idea of ditching established rugby league clubs to let these in on a whim. By all means come in compete and earn your place. Let’s have World cities over small English towns i just want them to earn that right.

I’m happy for allowances to be made like Toronto not playing at home until the ground is free of snow. That’s just common sense I’m not one of the morons you see on social media.
But to allow these teams to exist without the threat of relegation whilst the English teams have their chances of relegation increased (1 in 9 rather than 1 in 12 etc.) is a step too far and I don’t believe it will make these teams stronger, if anything it will promote mediocrity.

If this doesn’t make sense I’m sorry I’ve had a few beers this afternoon.

 

[adamkungl]

Leigh, Widnes, Rochdale and Hunslet reported to have voted against the North American bids.

2 clubs who see the writing on the wall regarding their future Super League chances if more big city money comes in, and 2 clubs whose long term future probably lies in League One.

 

[adamkungl]

Regarding future structure, this is what I have in mind as a long term idea. I believe this to be a good compromise between absolutely necessary future changes and expansion, and preserving the heartland and culture of English RL as thoroughly as possible.

It's a long road to this point - it requires 2 more big European teams and another USA team, it requires proven growth and income from expansion.
It requires the Championship to become a full-time professional league, as a result of increased broadcast money and sponsorship from successful expansion.

The Rugby League Championship becomes the top UK pro league, with 14 teams. What this means is, despite what I'm suggesting below, traditional UK clubs and towns are not deprived of professional rugby to make way for overseas blow-ins. The Championship would become UK(+Ireland) only, with no European or American teams admitted for reasons that will become obvious.

Above the Championship, the Super League completes its breakaway from the RFL and is restructured as a cross-continental conference league, conceptually similar to the golden era of southern hemisphere Super Rugby.
It is split into 4 conferences of 4 teams:

2 x UK, East and West (or some other arbitrary line that groups good rivalries together)
The UK conferences have P&R to the RFL Championship.

1 x Europe/France
This can begin with 4 licenced clubs, with the medium term aim to move to P&R to FRXIII Elite One when it is feasible to do so.

1 x Atlantic
4 licenced franchise clubs: Toronto, New York City, Ottawa, and 1 more USA team.
This is supported by the USARL and CRL but no view to P&R in a reasonable timeframe.


What this would mean for English Rugby League:
The 8 best performing clubs would compete on the highest stage. Only 3 of the current Super League 12 would move to the Championship, significantly increasing the number of already full time clubs.

Championship would have P&R continuing with League One, which would operate as a semi-professional part time League as it does now.

The Challenge Cup would return to running as a UK-only competition and with the Championship operating as a full-time league would be rejuvenated by an increased number of high quality games.

If this was all to be done based on the ladders as they stand right now (entirely arbitrary) the leagues would look like this:

SL Euro Conference:
Catalans
Toulouse
Paris
Lyon

SL Atlantic Conference:
NYC
Toronto
Ottawa
Boston

Super League UK:
St Helens
Warrington
Castleford
Wakefield
Hull FC
Salford
Huddersfield

RFL Championship:
Hull KR
Wigan
London
Leeds
York
Sheffield
Leigh
Bradford
Halifax
Featherstone
Dewsbury
Batley
Barrow
Swinton

RFL League One
Rochdale
Widnes
Hunslet
Whitehaven
Newcastle
Oldham
Workington
Doncaster
London S
Coventry
North Wales
West Wales
Keighley

 

[adamkungl]

Regardless of whether the above is the exact structure or its similar or totally different, the RFL needs a long term vision and roadmap.

It needs to know how what the point of expansion is, what a successful outcome is, and how it will preserve and grow English Rugby League at the same time.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Regarding future structure, this is what I have in mind as a long term idea. I believe this to be a good compromise between absolutely necessary future changes and expansion, and preserving the heartland and culture of English RL as thoroughly as possible.

It's a long road to this point - it requires 2 more big European teams and another USA team, it requires proven growth and income from expansion.
It requires the Championship to become a full-time professional league, as a result of increased broadcast money and sponsorship from successful expansion.

The Rugby League Championship becomes the top UK pro league, with 14 teams. What this means is, despite what I'm suggesting below, traditional UK clubs and towns are not deprived of professional rugby to make way for overseas blow-ins. The Championship would become UK(+Ireland) only, with no European or American teams admitted for reasons that will become obvious.

Above the Championship, the Super League completes its breakaway from the RFL and is restructured as a cross-continental conference league, conceptually similar to the golden era of southern hemisphere Super Rugby.
It is split into 4 conferences of 4 teams:

2 x UK, East and West (or some other arbitrary line that groups good rivalries together)
The UK conferences have P&R to the RFL Championship.

1 x Europe/France
This can begin with 4 licenced clubs, with the medium term aim to move to P&R to FRXIII Elite One when it is feasible to do so.

1 x Atlantic
4 licenced franchise clubs: Toronto, New York City, Ottawa, and 1 more USA team.
This is supported by the USARL and CRL but no view to P&R in a reasonable timeframe.


What this would mean for English Rugby League:
The 8 best performing clubs would compete on the highest stage. Only 3 of the current Super League 12 would move to the Championship, significantly increasing the number of already full time clubs.

Championship would have P&R continuing with League One, which would operate as a semi-professional part time League as it does now.

The Challenge Cup would return to running as a UK-only competition and with the Championship operating as a full-time league would be rejuvenated by an increased number of high quality games.

If this was all to be done based on the ladders as they stand right now (entirely arbitrary) the leagues would look like this:

SL Euro Conference:
Catalans
Toulouse
Paris
Lyon

SL Atlantic Conference:
NYC
Toronto
Ottawa
Boston

Super League UK:
St Helens
Warrington
Castleford
Wakefield
Hull FC
Salford
Huddersfield

RFL Championship:
Hull KR
Wigan
London
Leeds
York
Sheffield
Leigh
Bradford
Halifax
Featherstone
Dewsbury
Batley
Barrow
Swinton

RFL League One
Rochdale
Widnes
Hunslet
Whitehaven
Newcastle
Oldham
Workington
Doncaster
London S
Coventry
North Wales
West Wales
Keighley

I like it! This is the way I would go with it too.

 

[milton]

Hopefully we will have a NA super league in 10 years time consisting of 8+ teams that play exclusively in North America.

 

[Pommy]

Regarding future structure, this is what I have in mind as a long term idea. I believe this to be a good compromise between absolutely necessary future changes and expansion, and preserving the heartland and culture of English RL as thoroughly as possible.

It's a long road to this point - it requires 2 more big European teams and another USA team, it requires proven growth and income from expansion.
It requires the Championship to become a full-time professional league, as a result of increased broadcast money and sponsorship from successful expansion.

The Rugby League Championship becomes the top UK pro league, with 14 teams. What this means is, despite what I'm suggesting below, traditional UK clubs and towns are not deprived of professional rugby to make way for overseas blow-ins. The Championship would become UK(+Ireland) only, with no European or American teams admitted for reasons that will become obvious.

Above the Championship, the Super League completes its breakaway from the RFL and is restructured as a cross-continental conference league, conceptually similar to the golden era of southern hemisphere Super Rugby.
It is split into 4 conferences of 4 teams:

2 x UK, East and West (or some other arbitrary line that groups good rivalries together)
The UK conferences have P&R to the RFL Championship.

1 x Europe/France
This can begin with 4 licenced clubs, with the medium term aim to move to P&R to FRXIII Elite One when it is feasible to do so.

1 x Atlantic
4 licenced franchise clubs: Toronto, New York City, Ottawa, and 1 more USA team.
This is supported by the USARL and CRL but no view to P&R in a reasonable timeframe.


What this would mean for English Rugby League:
The 8 best performing clubs would compete on the highest stage. Only 3 of the current Super League 12 would move to the Championship, significantly increasing the number of already full time clubs.

Championship would have P&R continuing with League One, which would operate as a semi-professional part time League as it does now.

The Challenge Cup would return to running as a UK-only competition and with the Championship operating as a full-time league would be rejuvenated by an increased number of high quality games.

If this was all to be done based on the ladders as they stand right now (entirely arbitrary) the leagues would look like this:

SL Euro Conference:
Catalans
Toulouse
Paris
Lyon

SL Atlantic Conference:
NYC
Toronto
Ottawa
Boston

Super League UK:
St Helens
Warrington
Castleford
Wakefield
Hull FC
Salford
Huddersfield

RFL Championship:
Hull KR
Wigan
London
Leeds
York
Sheffield
Leigh
Bradford
Halifax
Featherstone
Dewsbury
Batley
Barrow
Swinton

RFL League One
Rochdale
Widnes
Hunslet
Whitehaven
Newcastle
Oldham
Workington
Doncaster
London S
Coventry
North Wales
West Wales
Keighley

How did you end up with Wigan in the championship?

 

[adamkungl]

How did you end up with Wigan in the championship?

"If this was all to be done based on the ladders as they stand right now (entirely arbitrary) the leagues would look like this:"

...seemed fairer than just deciding Salford and Huddersfield suck and should drop.
Don't pay too close attention to the names - they're just there to illustrate a possible structure.

Obviously Wigan and Leeds dropping would not be ideal but it's a risk of P&R

 

[Pommy]

"If this was all to be done based on the ladders as they stand right now (entirely arbitrary) the leagues would look like this:"

...seemed fairer than just deciding Salford and Huddersfield suck and should drop.
Don't pay too close attention to the names - they're just there to illustrate a possible structure.

Obviously Wigan and Leeds dropping would not be ideal but it's a risk of P&R

Sorry I must have skimmed it.

 

[magpie_man]

Regarding future structure, this is what I have in mind as a long term idea. I believe this to be a good compromise between absolutely necessary future changes and expansion, and preserving the heartland and culture of English RL as thoroughly as possible.

It's a long road to this point - it requires 2 more big European teams and another USA team, it requires proven growth and income from expansion.
It requires the Championship to become a full-time professional league, as a result of increased broadcast money and sponsorship from successful expansion.

The Rugby League Championship becomes the top UK pro league, with 14 teams. What this means is, despite what I'm suggesting below, traditional UK clubs and towns are not deprived of professional rugby to make way for overseas blow-ins. The Championship would become UK(+Ireland) only, with no European or American teams admitted for reasons that will become obvious.

Above the Championship, the Super League completes its breakaway from the RFL and is restructured as a cross-continental conference league, conceptually similar to the golden era of southern hemisphere Super Rugby.
It is split into 4 conferences of 4 teams:

2 x UK, East and West (or some other arbitrary line that groups good rivalries together)
The UK conferences have P&R to the RFL Championship.

1 x Europe/France
This can begin with 4 licenced clubs, with the medium term aim to move to P&R to FRXIII Elite One when it is feasible to do so.

1 x Atlantic
4 licenced franchise clubs: Toronto, New York City, Ottawa, and 1 more USA team.
This is supported by the USARL and CRL but no view to P&R in a reasonable timeframe.


What this would mean for English Rugby League:
The 8 best performing clubs would compete on the highest stage. Only 3 of the current Super League 12 would move to the Championship, significantly increasing the number of already full time clubs.

Championship would have P&R continuing with League One, which would operate as a semi-professional part time League as it does now.

The Challenge Cup would return to running as a UK-only competition and with the Championship operating as a full-time league would be rejuvenated by an increased number of high quality games.

If this was all to be done based on the ladders as they stand right now (entirely arbitrary) the leagues would look like this:

SL Euro Conference:
Catalans
Toulouse
Paris
Lyon

SL Atlantic Conference:
NYC
Toronto
Ottawa
Boston

Super League UK:
St Helens
Warrington
Castleford
Wakefield
Hull FC
Salford
Huddersfield

RFL Championship:
Hull KR
Wigan
London
Leeds
York
Sheffield
Leigh
Bradford
Halifax
Featherstone
Dewsbury
Batley
Barrow
Swinton

RFL League One
Rochdale
Widnes
Hunslet
Whitehaven
Newcastle
Oldham
Workington
Doncaster
London S
Coventry
North Wales
West Wales
Keighley

Looks great (from an Australian's perspective - on his phone, over an espresso in sunny Western Sydney).
If the USARL and Elite 1 leagues could get themselves up to a standard near the Championship, you'd have P&R directly traversing between the Super League and the regional Championships. That would be something completely unique in world sport (the closest thing being, perhaps, the Champions League) and, you would imagine, would be a real boost to the Championship-level leagues.

 

[deluded pom?]

How did you end up with Wigan in the championship?

Wishful thinking?

 

[CC_Roosters]

Looks great (from an Australian's perspective - on his phone, over an espresso in sunny Western Sydney).
If the USARL and Elite 1 leagues could get themselves up to a standard near the Championship, you'd have P&R directly traversing between the Super League and the regional Championships. That would be something completely unique in world sport (the closest thing being, perhaps, the Champions League) and, you would imagine, would be a real boost to the Championship-level leagues.

There's arguably more chance of a pro team in Belgrade than Paris and Lyon.

A more likely EURO conference imo would be;. Toulouse, Catalans, Red Star, Avignon. If not Red star then surely Caracassone would be next in line in terms of club strength and performance

 

[Walter sobchak]

There's arguably more chance of a pro team in Belgrade than Paris and Lyon.

A more likely EURO conference imo would be;. Toulouse, Catalans, Red Star, Avignon. If not Red star then surely Caracassone would be next in line in terms of club strength and performance

Just my opinion but I would see it as a missed opportunity for real big city expansion in France if the likes of Paris, Lyon, Montpelier or Marseille etc were to be overlooked for small town teams like Avignon or caracassone etc which already have elite 1 teams.

 

[Pommy]

Update on NA clubs.
Ottawa in principle could relocate in 2020
NYC told to work towards 2021

https://www.rugby-league.com/article/54939/overseas-clubs--update

 

[Pommy]

Eric Perez gives an interview on this weeks howlin’ hour podcast. I haven’t finished it yet but he gives a great insight in to the Wolfpack his plans for Ottawa Stags and how he hopes to bring Canadian athletes in to the sport now he’s secured a foothold for the sport.

 

[flamin]

https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/howlin-hour/id1453242699#episodeGuid=thehowlinhour.podbean.com/se01sp20-the-founder-el-fundador-senor-eric-perez-114d2a0d6ac5c91177830aebb47599e4

Link to the Apple podcast here. Worth a listen. Perez mentions the importance in a top down approach in inspiring kids to take up the game.

 

[Dakink]

https://castbox.fm/vb/161062768

Another link to a great podcast app for those that don't use apple. I have all the pods on this one.