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New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

Matiunz

Juniors
Messages
446
And if they do then mt smart is too small and they should be at Eden park where they will sell it out
There’s been a couple of pushes to consolidate stadiums and to have Warriors as one of Eden Parks tenants but it’s been met with massive resistance each time.
 

flippikat

Bench
Messages
4,528
With Aus, their addition of the Force and Rebels has absolutely killed them in terms of SR by diluting a talent pool that couldn't support it. Since they first added the Force in 06, AU teams have only made the SR final 4 times and haven't done so since 2014. It's been terrible.

And again it comes back to the code's overall greed in chasing broadcast dollars with more games, but without doing the groundwork to make it sustainable.

SA is a complicated beast for many reasons, but I've always felt the time/distance factor was a massive disadvantage to them right from the get go.
Agree on Australia - the pool of talent just wasn't there for more than 3 teams.

South Africa had the triple whammy of travel demands, crap timezone, and internal wrangling over just what 5 teams to have in Super Rugby (if memory serves me there was a loooong internal battle between 6 teams for their 5 spots)

The real shame of the collapse of Super Rugby was that the Jaguares were cut loose just as they were hitting their groove.. Argentina really could have made strides with a strong SR club.

I think the future of Super Rugby is a Pacific Rim setup... 3-4 Aussie teams, 4-5 NZ teams, a team from Fiji, a team from Argentina, and 1-2 Japanese based teams. With full player portability (eg All Blacks can play for any SR club)

I'm still not convinced about Moana Pasifika, and honestly to stay in the competition they will need to re-jig their setup - more games actually in Tonga or Samoa for a start.
 

Matiunz

Juniors
Messages
446


NRL: How former Wallabies coach Dave Rennie saved the Warriors from cultural oblivion​

While the Warriors are enjoying a reign as New Zealand’s premier professional sporting team, things could have been so much different were it not for the help of a former Wallabies coach.

In 2021, as the Kiwi side played out their second season of a Covid-enforced exile in Australia, the Warriors season ended with an implosion.

With nothing to play for, the Warriors lost all composure, let in eight tries without scoring, and most embarrassingly saw the trio of Kane Evans, Matt Lodge and Jazz Tevaga sent to the sin bin for an on-field brawl against the Gold Coast Titans.

Something was seriously wrong at the club. This was a team without a home, and most importantly, without an identity, representing a loyal fanbase that had backed them without any tangible reward through a global pandemic.

Warriors chief executive Cameron George makes no bones of the fact it was the lowest moment of his career.

“It indicated to me [that] we’d lost everything,” he told the Herald. “We’d lost our way.

“We just needed help. It wasn’t an authentic Warriors culture.

“I had to make a decision. How quickly can we get something to put in place? What is that something to put in place to save the club?”

With no certainty over the Warriors’ future, and with all signs pointing to a third straight season stuck in Australia, something needed to change.

However, that help wasn’t far away.

In late 2021, Kiwi Dave Rennie was in charge of the Wallabies, after pulling out of the race to succeed Sir Steve Hansen as head coach of the All Blacks.

History will show a torrid time for Rennie in Australia, before his firing at the start of 2023 - even if his replacement Eddie Jones fared much worse.
 

Matiunz

Juniors
Messages
446
However, his success with the Chiefs in Super Rugby and dominance at Under-20 level with New Zealand’s “Baby Blacks” proved Rennie’s methods were exceptional.

And after being given a steer in the right direction, George wasted no time in sounding out Rennie to help forge an identity from which the Warriors could form a new, needed, culture.

“He was unbelievable in terms of being so welcoming to the opportunity to speak to him,” George said of Rennie.

“It was the best thing I ever did. He helped me navigate through that time, and then develop a plan around how to pull the culture back together, and create the identity we needed.

“One of the questions I asked him - he was coach of the Wallabies at the time, who, like us, have multiple cultures within it while representing in his case a country - [was] how does he do it?

“He was so open and transparent on his experiences, what has worked, what hasn’t worked, why certain things would work for the Warriors.

“It is, without doubt, probably the turning point to creating a pathway forward for our identity.

“To this day, all because of that discussion, we have an amazing culture internally that we share, players and staff are so attached to, and it’s relevant to us every day.”

While Rennie had no experience in rugby league or the NRL, his situation wasn’t dissimilar to what George and the Warriors were going through.

Like the Warriors, he too was stuck in Australia, away from his loved ones in order to do his job.

And that understanding, with his own experiences in tow, forged a connection between Rennie and George that helped put the Warriors on the right path.

“He was so supportive and considerate. He was really spot on with his advice, and really caring about the advice he was offering.

“Not only on that day, he was there after checking in.

“He didn’t tell me how to do it, but he just gave me confidence that if I wanted to do it, these are some of the lessons he’s learned, and what he’s achieved by doing these things.

“He gave me a clear - I suppose - manual of difficult circumstances from his experience, on how to get through it. It created a lot of what we stand for now, and how we got through it.”

But while Rennie’s advice and guidance was welcome, it wasn’t a quick fix.

The Warriors continued to play out 2022 based in Australia and endured one of the worst seasons in the club’s history.

On the field, the Warriors finished second-from-bottom on the NRL ladder, with just six wins from 24 games.

Off the field, coach Nathan Brown, star player Reece Walsh, and the likes of Lodge and edge forward Euan Aitken all decided they wanted out of the club, with none wanting to relocate to New Zealand.

Slowly but surely, though, the Warriors began to reshape the club for the future.

The capture of Andrew Webster as head coach from 2023 has proven to be a masterstroke, evidenced by re-signing him for a further three years after just one season.

Meanwhile, the additions of Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad and Te Maire Martin added more of a Kiwi feel to the club’s roster.

And even with the Warriors unable to convince some Australian players of the value of living in New Zealand, the likes of Mitchell Barnett and Jackson Ford haven’t taken a backwards step since their respective moves across the Tasman.

Most importantly, though, when the Warriors returned to Mt Smart and notched a 22-2 victory over the Wests Tigers, a capacity crowd showed the club had a supporter base to build on. Once the Warriors were able to return home for good, everything was in place for the success seen in 2024 and beyond.

“We’re so unique to other clubs, we’re a special culture in New Zealand,” said George. “The Warriors are just so different.

“We had players playing for us who’d never played at our home base, never connected to our homeland and what we stood for and so on.

“Everything Dave was telling me wasn’t going to be a lightbulb moment that happened overnight. It was about putting things in place that could gradually get better at, underpinned for when we got home.

“All those things we talked about and put in place, when we got home permanently, all started to matter, all started to take place, it made me understand more and more how right he was.

“But it wasn’t until we were going to get home that we could get home and really benefit from it. It was never going to happen overnight.

“It wasn’t until we got home that we were able to really lock it in and start to build strongly on it and represent it.”

Since then, just about everything the Warriors touch turns to gold.

Last year saw the club return to the NRL finals for the first time since 2018.

In his first year, Webster led the Warriors to a top-four finish, with 16 regular-season wins and another semifinal thrashing of the Newcastle Knights in the post-season for good measure. His success was recognised with the NRL’s Dally M coach of the year award.

Shaun Johnson came within a single point of winning the same honour as a player, but ultimately lost out to Kalyn Ponga.

And to show things aren’t slowing down at Mt Smart any time soon, the Warriors have just stunned the NRL by capturing Kiwis captain and arguably the best prop in the game, James Fisher-Harris, who’ll arrive on a four-year deal in 2025.

As the first-grade side continues to make waves in the NRL, with sell-out after sell-out at Mt Smart, the club’s Under-17 side have reached the final of their Harold Matthews Cup competition, in a sign that success can continue into the future.

While rugby union has history as New Zealand’s sporting code, rugby league is taking steps to make sure it has the future.

But while Rennie himself has moved on to coach in Japan with the Kobe Steelers, George would waste no time in welcoming him back to the club - but it won’t be in any kind of coaching role.

“I can tell you, this door is always open for Dave to come in here to have a beer or a coffee, or be around our club,” George concluded.
 
Messages
13,334

The National Gridiron League, Australia has announced the addition of the Logan City Wolverines to the league joining the Brisbane Outlaws in what will be a nine team league starting in 2016.


First two teams were from Brisbane because no one cares about Perth.
 
Messages
13,334
Agree on Australia - the pool of talent just wasn't there for more than 3 teams.

South Africa had the triple whammy of travel demands, crap timezone, and internal wrangling over just what 5 teams to have in Super Rugby (if memory serves me there was a loooong internal battle between 6 teams for their 5 spots)

The real shame of the collapse of Super Rugby was that the Jaguares were cut loose just as they were hitting their groove.. Argentina really could have made strides with a strong SR club.

I think the future of Super Rugby is a Pacific Rim setup... 3-4 Aussie teams, 4-5 NZ teams, a team from Fiji, a team from Argentina, and 1-2 Japanese based teams. With full player portability (eg All Blacks can play for any SR club)

I'm still not convinced about Moana Pasifika, and honestly to stay in the competition they will need to re-jig their setup - more games actually in Tonga or Samoa for a start.
Australia can only support two teams. Japan has its own competition. If Super Rugby wants to expand into Asia then it might need to focus on Singapore, Malaysia and Hong Kong. Crowds over there wouldn't be much less than they are over here for the current teams.
 

Matua

Bench
Messages
4,662
However, his success with the Chiefs in Super Rugby and dominance at Under-20 level with New Zealand’s “Baby Blacks” proved Rennie’s methods were exceptional.

And after being given a steer in the right direction, George wasted no time in sounding out Rennie to help forge an identity from which the Warriors could form a new, needed, culture.

“He was unbelievable in terms of being so welcoming to the opportunity to speak to him,” George said of Rennie.

“It was the best thing I ever did. He helped me navigate through that time, and then develop a plan around how to pull the culture back together, and create the identity we needed.

“One of the questions I asked him - he was coach of the Wallabies at the time, who, like us, have multiple cultures within it while representing in his case a country - [was] how does he do it?

“He was so open and transparent on his experiences, what has worked, what hasn’t worked, why certain things would work for the Warriors.

“It is, without doubt, probably the turning point to creating a pathway forward for our identity.

“To this day, all because of that discussion, we have an amazing culture internally that we share, players and staff are so attached to, and it’s relevant to us every day.”

While Rennie had no experience in rugby league or the NRL, his situation wasn’t dissimilar to what George and the Warriors were going through.

Like the Warriors, he too was stuck in Australia, away from his loved ones in order to do his job.

And that understanding, with his own experiences in tow, forged a connection between Rennie and George that helped put the Warriors on the right path.

“He was so supportive and considerate. He was really spot on with his advice, and really caring about the advice he was offering.

“Not only on that day, he was there after checking in.

“He didn’t tell me how to do it, but he just gave me confidence that if I wanted to do it, these are some of the lessons he’s learned, and what he’s achieved by doing these things.

“He gave me a clear - I suppose - manual of difficult circumstances from his experience, on how to get through it. It created a lot of what we stand for now, and how we got through it.”

But while Rennie’s advice and guidance was welcome, it wasn’t a quick fix.

The Warriors continued to play out 2022 based in Australia and endured one of the worst seasons in the club’s history.

On the field, the Warriors finished second-from-bottom on the NRL ladder, with just six wins from 24 games.

Off the field, coach Nathan Brown, star player Reece Walsh, and the likes of Lodge and edge forward Euan Aitken all decided they wanted out of the club, with none wanting to relocate to New Zealand.

Slowly but surely, though, the Warriors began to reshape the club for the future.

The capture of Andrew Webster as head coach from 2023 has proven to be a masterstroke, evidenced by re-signing him for a further three years after just one season.

Meanwhile, the additions of Charnze Nicoll-Klokstad and Te Maire Martin added more of a Kiwi feel to the club’s roster.

And even with the Warriors unable to convince some Australian players of the value of living in New Zealand, the likes of Mitchell Barnett and Jackson Ford haven’t taken a backwards step since their respective moves across the Tasman.

Most importantly, though, when the Warriors returned to Mt Smart and notched a 22-2 victory over the Wests Tigers, a capacity crowd showed the club had a supporter base to build on. Once the Warriors were able to return home for good, everything was in place for the success seen in 2024 and beyond.

“We’re so unique to other clubs, we’re a special culture in New Zealand,” said George. “The Warriors are just so different.

“We had players playing for us who’d never played at our home base, never connected to our homeland and what we stood for and so on.

“Everything Dave was telling me wasn’t going to be a lightbulb moment that happened overnight. It was about putting things in place that could gradually get better at, underpinned for when we got home.

“All those things we talked about and put in place, when we got home permanently, all started to matter, all started to take place, it made me understand more and more how right he was.

“But it wasn’t until we were going to get home that we could get home and really benefit from it. It was never going to happen overnight.

“It wasn’t until we got home that we were able to really lock it in and start to build strongly on it and represent it.”

Since then, just about everything the Warriors touch turns to gold.

Last year saw the club return to the NRL finals for the first time since 2018.

In his first year, Webster led the Warriors to a top-four finish, with 16 regular-season wins and another semifinal thrashing of the Newcastle Knights in the post-season for good measure. His success was recognised with the NRL’s Dally M coach of the year award.

Shaun Johnson came within a single point of winning the same honour as a player, but ultimately lost out to Kalyn Ponga.

And to show things aren’t slowing down at Mt Smart any time soon, the Warriors have just stunned the NRL by capturing Kiwis captain and arguably the best prop in the game, James Fisher-Harris, who’ll arrive on a four-year deal in 2025.

As the first-grade side continues to make waves in the NRL, with sell-out after sell-out at Mt Smart, the club’s Under-17 side have reached the final of their Harold Matthews Cup competition, in a sign that success can continue into the future.

While rugby union has history as New Zealand’s sporting code, rugby league is taking steps to make sure it has the future.

But while Rennie himself has moved on to coach in Japan with the Kobe Steelers, George would waste no time in welcoming him back to the club - but it won’t be in any kind of coaching role.

“I can tell you, this door is always open for Dave to come in here to have a beer or a coffee, or be around our club,” George concluded.
When put like that there is a lot of the 2012 Chiefs dna in this Warriors. Underperforming team taken over and having immediate success (qualified in the Warriors case, but still success) under an understated style coach.
 

Wb1234

Referee
Messages
24,422
Wow talking about league from a union perspective

big league fan here

didn’t realise the Gold Coast had so much info about Kiwi rugby union.
 

Matua

Bench
Messages
4,662
Wow talking about league from a union perspective

big league fan here

didn’t realise the Gold Coast had so much info about Kiwi rugby union.
What's the Gold Coast got to do with it, it's a NZ Herald article about the Warriors?

Also, as we repeatedly spell it out to you, your beloved forever war barely exists in NZ, which is why we get an article about the Warriors and, cover your eyes so you don't freak out, a rugby coach.

Stop being a whiny baby and try and contribute to the thread something of substance rather than NRL Da Bestest and Rah Rah bad.
 

Canard

Immortal
Messages
34,844
What's the Gold Coast got to do with it, it's a NZ Herald article about the Warriors?

Also, as we repeatedly spell it out to you, your beloved forever war barely exists in NZ, which is why we get an article about the Warriors and, cover your eyes so you don't freak out, a rugby coach.

Stop being a whiny baby and try and contribute to the thread something of substance rather than NRL Da Bestest and Rah Rah bad.
FYI, who accuses all and sundry of being AFL or Union trolls is the only member of this thread that is a confirmed Sydney Swans member, who gave up supporting League for years
 
Messages
250
FYI, who accuses all and sundry of being AFL or Union trolls is the only member of this thread that is a confirmed Sydney Swans member, who gave up supporting League for years
Bloody hell, I`ve been a St. George supporter for fifty years and there`s been a few times where I thought I might support another club , but you don`t because you can`t, but support another code, christ and that code. Lightweight.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,855
Agree on Australia - the pool of talent just wasn't there for more than 3 teams.
The talent pool was there until the ARU and state unions systematically redirected funding from grassroots and junior development to funding the Super sides, after that the pool got smaller with each generation.

They did that under the impression that SR would be so successful that they wouldn't need to develop their own players, they could simply poach all the best teenage talent from other sports, namely RL.
The problems with that hypothesis were obvious to anybody with a lukewarm IQ, unfortunately they were outnumbered and ignored, or worse, by the ARU and their partners, then the best of them were poached by clubs and unions internationally to develop their programs.

Initially the bigger issue with expansion in Australia was the business and funding models. Neither the Force or Rebels had the money and resources behind them to crack their respective markets and both were living grant to grant and racking up debts from day one. Once the value of SR's broadcast rights started to go down those grants got smaller and the writing was on the wall.
South Africa had the triple whammy of travel demands, crap timezone, and internal wrangling over just what 5 teams to have in Super Rugby (if memory serves me there was a loooong internal battle between 6 teams for their 5 spots)

The real shame of the collapse of Super Rugby was that the Jaguares were cut loose just as they were hitting their groove.. Argentina really could have made strides with a strong SR club.

I think the future of Super Rugby is a Pacific Rim setup... 3-4 Aussie teams, 4-5 NZ teams, a team from Fiji, a team from Argentina, and 1-2 Japanese based teams. With full player portability (eg All Blacks can play for any SR club)

I'm still not convinced about Moana Pasifika, and honestly to stay in the competition they will need to re-jig their setup - more games actually in Tonga or Samoa for a start.
That's a guaranteed route to semi-pro status in Australia within the next decade or two unless they can find benefactors willing to prop them up.
 

Colk

First Grade
Messages
6,531
Hosting ANZAC day worked out well for the Warriors

Yeah now I start to worry about their performances. It is only early in the season and the good thing is they don’t have the injuries of other teams; so they have time to fix it
 

Canard

Immortal
Messages
34,844
V8 Supercars Goodbye GIF by Supercars Championship
 

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