New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[Canard]

@Wb1234 @Get Rid of The Donkeys et al are basically claiming they would immediately jump ship to Union, if it ever got its act together in Australia.

 

[Bukowski]

@Wb1234 @Get Rid of The Donkeys et al are basically claiming they would immediately jump ship to Union, if it ever got its act together in Australia.

Well one jumped to AFL so it's likely they would.

 

[Wb1234]

‘Auckland is a rugby league town’: How the Warriors have taken over - and how Super Rugby let it happen

If there was ever a testament required to the success of the New Zealand Warriors, we might have seen it this last weekend passed.…

www.theroar.com.au

that kiwi dope living in Sydney / Gold Coast was full of it as usual

 

[Penrith fan]

It may be overloaded with wishful thinking, but I’d disagree that RL is *never* going to displace RU as Kiwilands’ most popular footy. If the Wahs could manage a Penrith-like burst of success then I strongly suspect that their convoy of bandwagons would stretch for kilometres. Especially if the ABs simultaneously went though a Wobblies-genre losing streak. Aside from that, NZ doesn’t have the same level of entrenched elitism that keeps RU alive in Oz & Pomgolia, an offshoot of this being that the promising Kiwi kiddie is likely to be seriously tempted by the relative riches of the NRL. Another driver for RL is, as the OP points out, RU admins are doing their code no favours. Like how dogs act like their owners, RU admins very accurately reflect their game. Dull and slow.

 

[Perth Red]

It may be overloaded with wishful thinking, but I’d disagree that RL is *never* going to displace RU as Kiwilands’ most popular footy. If the Wahs could manage a Penrith-like burst of success then I strongly suspect that their convoy of bandwagons would stretch for kilometres. Especially if the ABs simultaneously went though a Wobblies-genre losing streak. Aside from that, NZ doesn’t have the same level of entrenched elitism that keeps RU alive in Oz & Pomgolia, an offshoot of this being that the promising Kiwi kiddie is likely to be seriously tempted by the relative riches of the NRL. Another driver for RL is, as the OP points out, RU admins are doing their code no favours. Like how dogs act like their owners, RU admins very accurately reflect their game. Dull and slow.

There'd need to be an awful lot of investment at all levels for that to happen. Form is temp, especially in the NRL, and especially for the Warriors it seems. If you are relying on purely club success to convert the masses then its unlikley to sustain.
I wouldnt say never but the gap is so huge it would take decades, a number of new NZ NRL clubs and some seismic shift in grass roots and school sport choices for it to happen.
A bit like the Swans in Sydney, the Warriors can def become the biggest pro sports club in NZ though.

 

[Matiunz]

There'd need to be an awful lot of investment at all levels for that to happen. Form is temp, especially in the NRL, and especially for the Warriors it seems. If you are relying on purely club success to convert the masses then its unlikley to sustain.
I wouldnt say never but the gap is so huge it would take decades, a number of new NZ NRL clubs and some seismic shift in grass roots and school sport choices for it to happen.
A bit like the Swans in Sydney, the Warriors can def become the biggest pro sports club in NZ though.

Pretty much exactly what you said, there’d need to be a seismic shift in NZ League grassroots and particularly its administration. Sustained success of the Warriors and kiwis is also crucial, there’s a couple of wobbles already this season and a few knives are starting to come out.
Only point I’d argue is Warriors would already be the biggest professional sports club in NZ and would have been for quite a while. Even where people support both Codes majority back the Warriors whereas union support is split between 6 teams.

 

[Matua]

‘Auckland is a rugby league town’: How the Warriors have taken over - and how Super Rugby let it happen

If there was ever a testament required to the success of the New Zealand Warriors, we might have seen it this last weekend passed.…

www.theroar.com.au

that kiwi dope living in Sydney / Gold Coast was full of it as usual

Do you bother reading the opinion pieces you quote? They are advocating against NZ2.

Also, some of the evidence in the article was based on pub screens and you've declared that pub screens don't count.

 

[Wb1234]

There'd need to be an awful lot of investment at all levels for that to happen. Form is temp, especially in the NRL, and especially for the Warriors it seems. If you are relying on purely club success to convert the masses then its unlikley to sustain.
I wouldnt say never but the gap is so huge it would take decades, a number of new NZ NRL clubs and some seismic shift in grass roots and school sport choices for it to happen.
A bit like the Swans in Sydney, the Warriors can def become the biggest pro sports club in NZ though.

The nrl will be like a tsunami

the nrl salary cap will just keep going up till ir crushes the life out of union.

the salary cap today could be 20 million pa if clubs didn’t want such a large grant for their profitability

whilst the nrl gets increasing revenues union just struggles to maintain the status quo

the move to professionalism has been a huge fail for union

 

[Penrith fan]

You can watch both sports, you can enjoy both but for a long time, rugby in New Zealand has sat there and said ‘we’re rugby, people are going to come and watch us’.
Exactly and why Super rugby is poor competition. Union has neglected its domestic audience in both countries and will pay a big price for that moving forward.
Union has been so fixated on the so called global market & Test primacy it long ago forgot its core base, who without those global $ mean nothing.
Without genuine domestic competition in there own countries, Rugby has found itself in a no mans land it has no idea how to get out of.

 

[Perth Red]

An interesting take against a second NZ club in that article

The success of the Wahs has led for calls for a second team to go to New Zealand in the next round of expansion, but according to veteran broadcaster Craig Norenbergs, that would be a mistake.
“The lucky thing that rugby league in New Zealand has at the moment is that there’s one team in the NRL,” he said.
“They can pour all their energies into that. The big test will be if a second team comes in.
“The players are already going to Australia to play, or playing in Europe, but how are they going to go when there’s a second team and the resources are piped into two.
“The Warriors have had the support even when they’re losing.

“I don’t think they should put a second rugby league team in New Zealand. Let’s get the Warriors right. Make them like the Broncos or the Storm where they’re always up there making the finals, and maybe look at another team in 10,15, 20 years.
“The population’s growing, there’s still time to do it. Maybe the time is to put one in Perth and Papua New Guinea, which they’re determined to have.
“Do you have to have a second team in New Zealand? Is there demand on the South Island? I don’t think it passes the pub test.”

 

[Wb1234]

An interesting take against a second NZ club in that article

The success of the Wahs has led for calls for a second team to go to New Zealand in the next round of expansion, but according to veteran broadcaster Craig Norenbergs, that would be a mistake.
“The lucky thing that rugby league in New Zealand has at the moment is that there’s one team in the NRL,” he said.
“They can pour all their energies into that. The big test will be if a second team comes in.
“The players are already going to Australia to play, or playing in Europe, but how are they going to go when there’s a second team and the resources are piped into two.
“The Warriors have had the support even when they’re losing.

“I don’t think they should put a second rugby league team in New Zealand. Let’s get the Warriors right. Make them like the Broncos or the Storm where they’re always up there making the finals, and maybe look at another team in 10,15, 20 years.
“The population’s growing, there’s still time to do it. Maybe the time is to put one in Perth and Papua New Guinea, which they’re determined to have.
“Do you have to have a second team in New Zealand? Is there demand on the South Island? I don’t think it passes the pub test.”

Never change

2 teams for hull is ok but not for nz

 

[cinders7]

It's a valid concern but what if it takes another two or three decades until they are regular top four contenders.

NZ is our third largest market and having 13/30 player salaries available for ~4million people is a huge bottleneck. No different to QLD only having the Broncos or NSW only having two clubs.

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

Do you bother reading the opinion pieces you quote? They are advocating against NZ2.

Also, some of the evidence in the article was based on pub screens and you've declared that pub screens don't count.

More than a little irony amongst that isnt there....

The bizarre thing is all of us are probably (more or less) on the same page anyway.

We all agree RL is riding a big wave here and that its awesome and the NRL should capitalise on it sooner rather than later. We all agree RU is hurting, has been for a while and continues to do itself no favours. But that's not new. Even Phoenix fans know that. All 100 of them.

Where we disagree is what all that potentially means for RU over the next 20 odd years. But why does that even matter?

I've said this on these boards many times already - if the NRL wants to maximise offshore commercial returns, there's far far bigger fish to fry elsewhere.

 

[Wb1234]

It's a valid concern but what if it takes another two or three decades until they are regular top four contenders.

NZ is our third largest market and having 13/30 player salaries available for ~4million people is a huge bottleneck. No different to QLD only having the Broncos or NSW only having two clubs.

Maybe like in union Christchurch will be a very sucesful club

 

[Wb1234]

More than a little irony amongst that isnt there....

The bizarre thing is all of us are probably (more or less) on the same page anyway.

We all agree RL is riding a big wave here and that its awesome and the NRL should capitalise on it sooner rather than later. We all agree RU is hurting, has been for a while and continues to do itself no favours. But that's not new. Even Phoenix fans know that. All 100 of them.

Where we disagree is what all that potentially means for RU over the next 20 odd years. But why does that even matter?

I've said this on these boards many times already - if the NRL wants to maximise offshore commercial returns, there's far far bigger fish to fry elsewhere.

There are some huge differences

there are kiwis living in Australia for a long time who say that the junior situation is dire in nz

that people aren’t really following league it’s all a few opinion pieces

and that sky nz will be cutting the tv deal next time

 

[Perth Red]

Never change

2 teams for hull is ok but not for nz

Its not my words dkhead.

 

[Matua]

More than a little irony amongst that isnt there....

The bizarre thing is all of us are probably (more or less) on the same page anyway.

We all agree RL is riding a big wave here and that its awesome and the NRL should capitalise on it sooner rather than later. We all agree RU is hurting, has been for a while and continues to do itself no favours. But that's not new. Even Phoenix fans know that. All 100 of them.

Where we disagree is what all that potentially means for RU over the next 20 odd years. But why does that even matter?

I've said this on these boards many times already - if the NRL wants to maximise offshore commercial returns, there's far far bigger fish to fry elsewhere.

Oh I think all of us NZers are on the same page, there's a few non NZers who are on their own page.

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

There are some huge differences

there are kiwis living in Australia for a long time who say that the junior situation is dire in nz

that people aren’t really following league it’s all a few opinion pieces

and that sky nz will be cutting the tv deal next time

I don't follow, huge differences in what?

As for "there are kiwis living in Australia for a long time who say that the junior situation is dire in nz" - a few Kiwi posters here who've also lived in Aus for a long time but with different opinions.

But regardless of all that..... I don't follow the club scene here so I cant comment on club numbers. Wouldn't surprise me though; lots of things competing for kid's attention now.

I do know schoolboy rugby remains strong though and that's a bigger pathway 'funnel' into the professional game here than the clubs anyway. Most provincial unions and SR academies recruit straight from school.

On the next Sky TV deal - yes, rumblings are not sounding positive and not just for RU either. NZ Netball is also very concerned.

Whether that's due to a reduction in perceived value, a weakening in Sky's balance sheet or a combination of both, I don't know. But if its any element of the latter, there could be an RL impact down the line as well so I wouldn't be monitoring those developments with too much glee. Unlike Aus, there's bugger all competition for sports rights here.

 

[Wb1234]

I don't follow, huge differences in what?

As for "there are kiwis living in Australia for a long time who say that the junior situation is dire in nz" - a few Kiwi posters here who've also lived in Aus for a long time but with different opinions.

But regardless of all that..... I don't follow the club scene here so I cant comment on club numbers. Wouldn't surprise me though; lots of things competing for kid's attention now.

I do know schoolboy rugby remains strong though and that's a bigger pathway 'funnel' into the professional game here than the clubs anyway. Most provincial unions and SR academies recruit straight from school.

On the next Sky TV deal - yes, rumblings are not sounding positive and not just for RU either. NZ Netball is also very concerned.

Whether that's due to a reduction in perceived value, a weakening in Sky's balance sheet or a combination of both, I don't know. But if its any element of the latter, there could be an RL impact down the line as well so I wouldn't be monitoring those developments with too much glee. Unlike Aus, there's bugger all competition for sports rights here.

Warriors ratings are up 74 percent this year

 

[Wb1234]

Its not my words dkhead.

I post 20 positive articles

you pick the one slightly negative paragraph out of all of them to highlight

if you agree with two clubs in hull then you will not agree that one team is enough for nz

lol