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New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

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788
Warriors ratings are up 74 percent this year
They could be up ten times that... but if Sky's balance sheet has weakened to the point where they cant afford to pay more, or even keep the status quo, ratings are irrelevant. And even if they could afford to, there's also the question of whether they think they need to.

At the time NZR and the NRL signed their last rights deals here, Spark Sport was a competitive bidder, They've since ceased operations and passed their existing rights to TVNZ - who've just undergone a range of cost cutting measures in their news department.

So in short, there's not the same competitive pressure for any sports rights coming up for renewal here. NZR will undoubtedly feel the pain of that situation, but they wont be the only one.
 

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
33,693
They could be up ten times that... but if Sky's balance sheet has weakened to the point where they cant afford to pay more, or even keep the status quo, ratings are irrelevant. And even if they could afford to, there's also the question of whether they think they need to.

At the time NZR and the NRL signed their last rights deals here, Spark Sport was a competitive bidder, They've since ceased operations and passed their existing rights to TVNZ - who've just undergone a range of cost cutting measures in their news department.

So in short, there's not the same competitive pressure for any sports rights coming up for renewal here. NZR will undoubtedly feel the pain of that situation, but they wont be the only one.
Higher ratings higher ad revenue

a second nz nrl team would be a boon for sky nz
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,551
They could be up ten times that... but if Sky's balance sheet has weakened to the point where they cant afford to pay more, or even keep the status quo, ratings are irrelevant. And even if they could afford to, there's also the question of whether they think they need to.

At the time NZR and the NRL signed their last rights deals here, Spark Sport was a competitive bidder, They've since ceased operations and passed their existing rights to TVNZ - who've just undergone a range of cost cutting measures in their news department.

So in short, there's not the same competitive pressure for any sports rights coming up for renewal here. NZR will undoubtedly feel the pain of that situation, but they wont be the only one.
yep for two deals sky nz paid exactly the same, $20mill a year. They only paid an extra $12mill this time due to Spark competing. If a NZ2 club and the increased interest in the Warriors = $ increase from Sky is no doubt a discussion the NRL will be having.
 
Messages
788
yep for two deals sky nz paid exactly the same, $20mill a year. They only paid an extra $12mill this time due to Spark competing. If a NZ2 club and the increased interest in the Warriors = $ increase from Sky is no doubt a discussion the NRL will be having.
No doubt. Which begs the question - will there ever be a point where the NRL says no thanks and walks away, leaving one of their markets with a domiciled team without a broadcaster?

There is literally no one else here who will bid. TVNZ is cutting costs like every other state owned enterprise, and TV3's owners have just culled their entire news operation. Unless a streaming service appears out of nowhere, Sky will be the sole bidder.

Who has the most leverage in that situation? The NRL who's selling an undoubtedly valuable commodity, or Sky who's the only one willing/able to pay for it?
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
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69,551
No doubt. Which begs the question - will there ever be a point where the NRL says no thanks and walks away, leaving one of their markets with a domiciled team without a broadcaster?

There is literally no one else here who will bid. TVNZ is cutting costs like every other state owned enterprise, and TV3's owners have just culled their entire news operation. Unless a streaming service appears out of nowhere, Sky will be the sole bidder.

Who has the most leverage in that situation? The NRL who's selling an undoubtedly valuable commodity, or Sky who's the only one willing/able to pay for it?
No, something is better than nothing and as a key source for NRl players they need exposure for the game in NZ.

I suppose a streaming service could go for Aus and NZ rights if they are in both countries?
 
Messages
659
It's a valid concern but what if it takes another two or three decades until they are regular top four contenders.

NZ is our third largest market and having 13/30 player salaries available for ~4million people is a huge bottleneck. No different to QLD only having the Broncos or NSW only having two clubs.
Unless the Warriors` are struggling financially their on-field success should have absolutely nothing to do with whether we have another NZ team or not, the two are unconnected.
In fact, from what we have had reported from @SLRBRONCOS this year the Broncos have really upped their game - both on and off the field - most likely in response to have a competitor on their doorstep.
This is the basics from evolution to business, competition drives innovation, renewal and success. Monopolies and oligopolies restrict growth and development. Bring in another Kiwi side, if the money is there and watch them both compete to be the number one Kiwi team in the Aussie NRL.
 

Matiunz

Juniors
Messages
820
No, something is better than nothing and as a key source for NRl players they need exposure for the game in NZ.

I suppose a streaming service could go for Aus and NZ rights if they are in both countries?
Most people I know with Sky have a general apathy for the company and would jump ship in an instant. Part of being essentially a monopoly has had NZers paying overs for a while.
It’s a fine balance for Sky as if they didn’t have the NRL their business would suffer, if they lost union too they’d go under overnight. However they don’t have endless money either and would seek to take advantage of being the only bidder, only other real option is something like Watch NRL or similar service cutting out the middle man.
 
Messages
788
Most people I know with Sky have a general apathy for the company and would jump ship in an instant. Part of being essentially a monopoly has had NZers paying overs for a while.
It’s a fine balance for Sky as if they didn’t have the NRL their business would suffer, if they lost union too they’d go under overnight. However they don’t have endless money either and would seek to take advantage of being the only bidder, only other real option is something like Watch NRL or similar service cutting out the middle man.
Yep but that sentiment has been tempered a little bit I’ve found.

When Spark won the domestic cricket rights and then various WC rights there was a collective finger to Sky from much of the public.

But as it became apparent we’d have to pay two subscription costs to watch the same amount of content we used to have on Sky alone, coupled with some of Spark’s production and bandwidth challenges, it became a bit like be careful what you wish for.

I personally haven’t followed any domestic cricket since Sky originally lost the rights. Sky’s a pain in the fking ass at times but as a consumer, it’s almost better the devil you know.

And yep agree that given their history of abusing their monopoly, they will absolutely leverage it for any sports rights negotiations.

They’ve already done it to NZ netball who’ve taken a 1 year deal at half the annual value of their previous deal, while they explore trying to rejoin the Aus league. If that doesn’t work out though, they are officially fked so they’re shitting themselves.
 

Perth Red

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69,551
Even if Sky drop it to $25mill NRL isnt going to turn that sort of money down. Theres no way they could earn more directly selling watch NRL.
The big question, as pertinent to this thread, is would they pay more than the current $32mill if a Christchurch team was admitted? Would it make any significant difference to their revenue?
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
6,633
There'd need to be an awful lot of investment at all levels for that to happen. Form is temp, especially in the NRL, and especially for the Warriors it seems. If you are relying on purely club success to convert the masses then its unlikley to sustain.
I wouldnt say never but the gap is so huge it would take decades, a number of new NZ NRL clubs and some seismic shift in grass roots and school sport choices for it to happen.
A bit like the Swans in Sydney, the Warriors can def become the biggest pro sports club in NZ though.
Swans TV ratings suggest they are nowhere near the biggest sporting club in Sydney. Another lie from Fumble HQ
 
Messages
788
Even if Sky drop it to $25mill NRL isnt going to turn that sort of money down. Theres no way they could earn more directly selling watch NRL.
The big question, as pertinent to this thread, is would they pay more than the current $32mill if a Christchurch team was admitted? Would it make any significant difference to their revenue?
I have no idea how such things are calculated but they pay 80m-ish pa to NZR for all rugby content including tests so that’s their upper limit as it stands I guess.

But a chunk of that value is attributed to the All Blacks and their international appeal which obviously won’t apply for NRL content.

Tough one but it’ll be interesting to see unfold. NZR enter negotiations in the back half of next year, when will the NRL start looking at their next deal? If it’s not till afterwards, NZR’s result will provide a useful guide.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
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69,551
Swans TV ratings suggest they are nowhere near the biggest sporting club in Sydney. Another lie from Fumble HQ
On FC revenue, membership and attendance they are, by a long way. On casual tv viewer they are not. Its impossible to know how many people tuning into a game on tv are fans of the teams playing and are casual viewers of the code. So if a Sydney team gets 100k watching in Sydney how many of that 100k are actually their fans? That why the direct metrics such as attendance, membership (kind of) and merch sales etc give a clearer indication of actual fanbase.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
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69,551
I have no idea how such things are calculated but they pay 80m-ish pa to NZR for all rugby content including tests so that’s their upper limit as it stands I guess.

But a chunk of that value is attributed to the All Blacks and their international appeal which obviously won’t apply for NRL content.

Tough one but it’ll be interesting to see unfold. NZR enter negotiations in the back half of next year, when will the NRL start looking at their next deal? If it’s not till afterwards, NZR’s result will provide a useful guide.
NRL will likely start negotiations end of this year or somewhere mid next year. Given they are due to announce the 18th club end of this year, according to Abdo, Id suggest they will negotiate next tv deal after that so sometime early to mid 2025.
 
Messages
788
NRL will likely start negotiations end of this year or somewhere mid next year. Given they are due to announce the 18th club end of this year, according to Abdo, Id suggest they will negotiate next tv deal after that so sometime early to mid 2025.
Ok so could be concurrent. That’ll be really interesting then.
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
6,633
On FC revenue, membership and attendance they are, by a long way. On casual tv viewer they are not. Its impossible to know how many people tuning into a game on tv are fans of the teams playing and are casual viewers of the code. So if a Sydney team gets 100k watching in Sydney how many of that 100k are actually their fans? That why the direct metrics such as attendance, membership (kind of) and merch sales etc give a clearer indication of actual fanbase.
AFL grants, All AFL fans from Sydney funnelled into one team, expats buying one game memberships to see their Prictorian side when they come to Sydney, a chunk of memberships sold in Melbourne due to them previously being the South Melbourne Swans... All of these factors give the illusion of them being the largest.

The TV ratings tell the real story. If AFL had to rely on the Swans in the Sydney market as the backbone of their TV deal, you would soon see how small a club they really are.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,551
AFL grants, All AFL fans from Sydney funnelled into one team, expats buying one game memberships to see their Prictorian side when they come to Sydney, a chunk of memberships sold in Melbourne due to them previously being the South Melbourne Swans... All of these factors give the illusion of them being the largest.

The TV ratings tell the real story. If AFL had to rely on the Swans in the Sydney market as the backbone of their TV deal, you would soon see how small a club they really are.
I understand your bias opinion on this, but you didnt really answer my point of why tv audiences cant be relied on. I didnt include the AFL grant when I mentioned they have by far the largest FC revenue. For me attendnace will always be the #1 measure of a clubs active fanbase. Its the most relaible one we have imo.
Anyway for want of being accused of talking afl I'll leave this debate for elsewhere lol.
 

final say

Juniors
Messages
1,028
All the same bullshit arguments being rehashed a year after it was debunked.
The main revenue source for the NRL is Foxtel- That have no competition...
Yeah we'll just ignore that lol.

Subscription services sell a product ,the better the product, the more it sells..either by volume or a higher premium.

The Warriors at this point are probably more than double their viewership .. add another NZ team and the prospective captive audience SKY-ROCKETS !

I don't care that you business dunces don't get it.. Sky does and so does the NRL.

NZ 2 will be the next team, I've been telling you dumb f**kers for over a year, when they get the license and they get a big sky deal - that's your moment to appreciate your own stupidity.
 
Messages
14,822
They could be up ten times that... but if Sky's balance sheet has weakened to the point where they cant afford to pay more, or even keep the status quo, ratings are irrelevant. And even if they could afford to, there's also the question of whether they think they need to.

At the time NZR and the NRL signed their last rights deals here, Spark Sport was a competitive bidder, They've since ceased operations and passed their existing rights to TVNZ - who've just undergone a range of cost cutting measures in their news department.

So in short, there's not the same competitive pressure for any sports rights coming up for renewal here. NZR will undoubtedly feel the pain of that situation, but they wont be the only one.
If the NZRU is impacted by it then I hope a few more All Blacks head over to Europe and Japan. More reason to add a team in Christchurch.
 

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