New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[BuffaloRules]

If there isn't a top line high paying Union comp in NZ…

So why is this going to happen ? Do you think their demise is possibly 15 years away and will be as a result of the NRL putting a team in Christchurch ?

 

[Canard]

Rugby League in Australiasia has had more money than Union for the better part of 20 years.

Why is one new team in NZ suddenly going to "kill Union"?

We would laugh our arses off if Rah Rahs made a similar claim.

 

[Gobsmacked]

Rugby League in Australiasia has had more money than Union for the better part of 20 years.

Why is one new team in NZ suddenly going to "kill Union"?

We would laugh our arses off if Rah Rahs made a similar claim.

The NRL are pulling level with Super Rugby in ratings with one club.
What exactly do you think happens with the introduction of a brand new franchise hits their shores boasting 12 million dollars in talent, playing every second week in their brand new world class facility?
Effectively doubling NZ exposure to the NRL..
Stay the same?
Lol

 

[Wb1234]

The short term goal should be becoming bigger than super rugby that’s something that nz2 will do

Thats gives league the platform to grow the kiwi brand and also develop comps below the nrl where union is dominant

As long as league keeps growing it doesn’t really matter what union looks like

 

[Gobsmacked]

" Huge blow"...
Sounds familiar

https://www.theroar.com.au/2024/11/12/exclusive-aussie-sevens-star-signs-with-nrl-club-in-huge-blow-weeks-after-taking-out-games-top-award/amp/

 

[Matua]

Sheesh, we've looped completely back around to stuff we've already discussed multiple times in the thread. Gob you need to rename the thread groundhog day. But Wb seems to be flip flopping between league having no chance to league definitely taking over in NZ.

You make some great points beyond this, but what I've quoted is the crux of the issue.

Generally speaking, NZ professional sports teams NEED to be part of international (usually Australian based) competitions to pay the bills.

With Australian rugby union in deep deep trouble, NZ rugby is vulnerable. Despite RU traditionalists saying we should make NPC provincial rugby professional, the maths for that doesn't work.

As you're a Kiwi I respect you opinion a wee bit more than some of the others in this thread. Do you really believe this? NZ rugby currently contributes to Oz for Super, the money is already there. And the most highly supported matches in NZ are NZ derbies. I don't think NZ would have a problem going it alone with Oz. I don't think they should as I'm happy for Oz rugby to exist (and NRL, don't care about Origin and AFL though). The maths for a pro NPC works if Super no longer exists.

Here's a question for you, if Sky lost the rights to the NRL or lost the rights to the rugby in NZ which is going to have the most negative impact on them? Do you honestly think it will be losing the NRL rights?

Another one, do you honestly think league can take over with the state of the domestic game in NZ? There's 6 senior teams in the Canterbury comp where the new frontier in the war against rugby is supposedly going to take off. League barely exists anymore in my home province of HB, the teams that aren't completely gang dominated are made of aging rugby players who don't want to train anymore but want to run around on the weekend.

 

[flippikat]

As you're a Kiwi I respect you opinion a wee bit more than some of the others in this thread. Do you really believe this? NZ rugby currently contributes to Oz for Super, the money is already there.
And the most highly supported matches in NZ are NZ derbies. I don't think NZ would have a problem going it alone with Oz. I don't think they should as I'm happy for Oz rugby to exist (and NRL, don't care about Origin and AFL though). The maths for a pro NPC works if Super no longer exists.

One way to move forward for RU might be to add a few NZ teams (and not scrapping SR as a competition) - either re-jigging the current 5 team boundaries to say 7 or 8.. OR the radical option of scrapping the SR teams and making a number of 1st division unions New Zealand's representatives in SR.

That delivers more of those valuable NZ derbies, but cranks up the competition costs - and getting more money out of a limited (and damn near saturated) pay TV market here in NZ is a challenge - they can't keep cranking up Sky subscription prices.

That's a real challenge for RU, and they've been pondering how to solve it ( Expand to Asia? USA? Argentina? ) but indecision reigns there as there's a fair amount of risk in places that don't naturally follow RU.

Here's a question for you, if Sky lost the rights to the NRL or lost the rights to the rugby in NZ which is going to have the most negative impact on them? Do you honestly think it will be losing the NRL rights?

Rugby for sure, but it's a moot point currently because Sky is the only game in town (pardon the pun).

FTA tv is broke - Discovery (TV3) and TVNZ have been in a cost cutting frenzy, Spark has ended it's sports coverage ambitions & no other streaming service has stepped forward (Sky's entertainment tv rights deals have prevented the likes of Paramount+ starting here - so far..).. maybe NZR might try broadening its own direct-to-consumer offering, but I don't think they're there yet.

Another one, do you honestly think league can take over with the state of the domestic game in NZ? There's 6 senior teams in the Canterbury comp where the new frontier in the war against rugby is supposedly going to take off. League barely exists anymore in my home province of HB, the teams that aren't completely gang dominated are made of aging rugby players who don't want to train anymore but want to run around on the weekend.

Yeah, the domestic RL scene is disjointed to say the least. The thing RU does well is the pyramid structure of club/NPC/Super Rugby/Tests - having clear windows for each, and being able to publicize Super Rugby, then a test window, then NPC, then end of year Tests.

If the NRL wants a production line of Kiwi talent coming through, we need investment in that base.. and I'm not sure what mix of club versus provincial outlay does that best, because provincial RL seems to have become almost an afterthought these days.

 

[Gobsmacked]

Sheesh, we've looped completely back around to stuff we've already discussed multiple times in the thread. Gob you need to rename the thread groundhog day. But Wb seems to be flip flopping between league having no chance to league definitely taking over in NZ.


As you're a Kiwi I respect you opinion a wee bit more than some of the others in this thread. Do you really believe this? NZ rugby currently contributes to Oz for Super, the money is already there. And the most highly supported matches in NZ are NZ derbies. I don't think NZ would have a problem going it alone with Oz. I don't think they should as I'm happy for Oz rugby to exist (and NRL, don't care about Origin and AFL though). The maths for a pro NPC works if Super no longer exists.

Here's a question for you, if Sky lost the rights to the NRL or lost the rights to the rugby in NZ which is going to have the most negative impact on them? Do you honestly think it will be losing the NRL rights?

Another one, do you honestly think league can take over with the state of the domestic game in NZ? There's 6 senior teams in the Canterbury comp where the new frontier in the war against rugby is supposedly going to take off. League barely exists anymore in my home province of HB, the teams that aren't completely gang dominated are made of aging rugby players who don't want to train anymore but want to run around on the weekend.

Given Super Rugby is in decline and currently playing one less game per week, they most certainly understand when their current arrangement is reduced.

While the NRL is taking off an due to increase the amount of games per week by one game they will understandably be increased.

But imagine if that extra game features a new Kiwi team...

Real talk now expert Kiwi:

How long back do you go to find a bigger more exciting addition to the sporting landscape in NZ then the addition of a second NRL club?
Because not only will a new NRL franchise be the hottest ticket in town ( by town, I mean the whole country) but it will be by at least a decade.. Warriors vs South Island will be the highlight ratings professional sporting game probably in New Zealand’s history..

But I'm sure " Sky " a sports channel won't be interested..lol

 

[Wb1234]

Nz isn’t giving Australia 12 million pa out of generosity

It’s bc they need Australia to not die

There is no chance an nz local comp could compete with the nrl esp if they have two clubs in nz

It will be a feeder league for the nrl or European / Japan union

 

[flippikat]

Nz isn’t giving Australia 12 million pa out of generosity

It’s bc they need Australia to not die

There is no chance an nz local comp could compete with the nrl esp if they have two clubs in nz

It will be a feeder league for the nrl or European / Japan union

The only way we'd get close to scrapping Super Rugby & bringing back the NPC as the highest level under tests is if the 5 NZ Super Rugby teams get replaced by most (if not ALL) the 14 first division unions in Super Rugby.

Now, I'm not sure games like Southland Stags v NSW Waratahs or Bay of Plenty Steamers v ACT Brumbies, let alone Manawatu Turbos v Western Force would be any more sell-able than what we have now.

 

[Gobsmacked]

Nz isn’t giving Australia 12 million pa out of generosity

It’s bc they need Australia to not die

There is no chance an nz local comp could compete with the nrl esp if they have two clubs in nz

It will be a feeder league for the nrl or European / Japan union

These " solutions " are hilarious. Well fix pro Rugby in NZ by watering down the already poor quality comp lol .
Rugby Union in the pacific is half the quality of the NRL now, just lost a team and underwater financially. More teams? That like fixing your credit card debt with a holiday lol

 

[Wb1234]

The only way we'd get close to scrapping Super Rugby & bringing back the NPC as the highest level under tests is if the 5 NZ Super Rugby teams get replaced by most (if not ALL) the 14 first division unions in Super Rugby.

Now, I'm not sure games like Southland Stags v NSW Waratahs or Bay of Plenty Steamers v ACT Brumbies, let alone Manawatu Turbos v Western Force would be any more sell-able than what we have now.

I meant if super rugby fails and nz goes with a purely local comp with no Aussie teams at all

As someone else suggested going with Japan would save the comp then you could still have 3 Aussie teams too

 

[flippikat]

These " solutions " are hilarious. Well fix pro Rugby in NZ by watering down the already poor quality comp lol .
Rugby Union in the pacific is half the quality of the NRL now, just lost a team and underwater financially. More teams? That like fixing your credit card debt with a holiday lol

The current setup (5 NZ teams, 4 Aussie teams, Fiji & Moana Pasifika) would be improved with an open player market - allowing any player to play for any team and still being eligible for their country's test team.

Expansion beyond that without open player movement is folly.

 

[Wb1234]

The current setup (5 NZ teams, 4 Aussie teams, Fiji & Moana Pasifika) would be improved with an open player market - allowing any player to play for any team and still being eligible for their country's test team.

Expansion beyond that without open player movement is folly.

Aussie teams would just be half full of kiwis and whilst more competitive the wallabies would still have a low talent pool to pick from

 

[flippikat]

I meant if super rugby fails and nz goes with a purely local comp with no Aussie teams at all

As someone else suggested going with Japan would save the comp then you could still have 3 Aussie teams too

If NZ went back to NPC (say, a March to October "super-long" NPC first division) , I imagine it wouldn't be too long before there were calls to expand it internationally - whether it's Aussie syndicates lobbying NZR trying to get in, or NZ Rugby reaching out to Japan or America to hook into income streams there.

 

[Matiunz]

Rugby League in Australiasia has had more money than Union for the better part of 20 years.

Why is one new team in NZ suddenly going to "kill Union"?

We would laugh our arses off if Rah Rahs made a similar claim.

100%, if it were simply money why hasn’t it happened in greater numbers already? Also why didn’t it happen when Union was amateur and league professional?

 

[Matiunz]

The NRL are pulling level with Super Rugby in ratings with one club.
What exactly do you think happens with the introduction of a brand new franchise hits their shores boasting 12 million dollars in talent, playing every second week in their brand new world class facility?
Effectively doubling NZ exposure to the NRL..
Stay the same?
Lol

No doubt ratings will rise with NZ2 but you also have to remember a large majority of NZ2 fans are currently supporting the Warriors as the default NZ team, not sure it will double the fans

 

[Wb1234]

100%, if it were simply money why hasn’t it happened in greater numbers already? Also why didn’t it happen when Union was amateur and league professional?

Nz went professional because of the threat of Auckland warriors joining the nrl

Heck the whole sport of union went pro as well

 

[flippikat]

Aussie teams would just be half full of kiwis and whilst more competitive the wallabies would still have a low talent pool to pick from

True, and the hope would be that successful Australian Super Rugby teams (even if they have a sizable NZ contingent) eventually inspires more talent to come through grass-roots.

Short term dip for hopefully longer term growth.

A gamble, but all Australian RU has now.

 

[Wb1234]

True, and the hope would be that successful Australian Super Rugby teams (even if they have a sizable NZ contingent) eventually inspires more talent to come through grass-roots.

Short term dip for hopefully longer term growth.

A gamble, but all Australian RU has now.

Always thought union in Australia was just a fad due to the super league war and would collapse

But would never have thought we could make a dent in nz. Union used to be untouchable. Now it’s not and with the younger demographic we would dominate