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New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
36,312
you use your colloquialism if you like, I'll stick with what 95% of the planet call it.
Who cares what someone in Brazil calls it

That’s the best thing about Australia is how the big football codes have monopolised the term

In every country football refers to the dominant football code

Eg in America

What does mls stand for ?

As opposed to nfl
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
70,892
Nothing stopping the nrl owning it like Perth

Financially it will be fine

Especially if they ignore Wellington and play in the stadiums in Dunedin and Christchurch
Except the NZ govt isnt offering to build infrastructure like a CofE and jnr pathways for the club. So will the NRL foot that bill as well?
 

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
36,312
Except the NZ govt isnt offering to build infrastructure like a CofE and jnr pathways for the club. So will the NRL foot that bill as well?
They have two excellent stadiums already / will be built

I’m sure if they have to the nrl can pay for their gym memberships at anytime fitness

Council will end up covering that if they have to (coe) it’s not a big cost

Juniors in nz?? lol it’s not wa
 

SirPies&Beers

Juniors
Messages
1,101
Much of the NRL were in financial difficulty for a long time but look around.. the NRL are growing massively year on year, financially, crowds, viewers and we are now in a position where all clubs despite their standing are financially viable... that's clubs in crowded markets with poor performances, poor crowds..still profitable.
There's no chance a new club in the games biggest growth area, that's consistently selling out trial matches.. at an old stadium.. with teams that they aren't even part of the history... failing in a brand new stadium with their own team?
There's 4 bids for a reason mate.. that's more than Brisbane had..
just being devils advocate here but titans and knights are both entrenched in massive rugby league heartlands. knights has massive fan support and attendances, titans brand new stadium and both have struggled financially in the last decade to the point they required nrl intervention and ownership. if it was isolated to the titans alone, fair enough but it wasnt.

i think people are overlooking the commercial stength required to ensure a sports club is run smoothly or there's major implications. goes beyond just being in prime location or having a new stadium, so much more to it. history shows us this.

I dont think its a gimme as you do, i think it'll require some seriously good business men and executives running the show and to be honest orcas has some horseshit people parading as competent men and kea has a very disliked man in the game, leading them. i think that needs to be taken on board and just like cumins was brushed, i think orcas have 0 chance with their mob and moffet even less. they need to wash away the shitstains. im all for nz 2 and they'll be there one day for sure but also need to be a realist with it.
 

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
36,312
just being devils advocate here but titans and knights are both entrenched in massive rugby league heartlands. knights has massive fan support and attendances, titans brand new stadium and both have struggled financially in the last decade to the point they required nrl intervention and ownership. if it was isolated to the titans alone, fair enough but it wasnt.

i think people are overlooking the commercial stength required to ensure a sports club is run smoothly or there's major implications. goes beyond just being in prime location or having a new stadium, so much more to it. history shows us this.

I dont think its a gimme as you do, i think it'll require some seriously good business men and executives running the show and to be honest orcas has some horseshit people parading as competent men and kea has a very disliked man in the game, leading them. i think that needs to be taken on board and just like cumins was brushed, i think orcas have 0 chance with their mob and moffet even less.
Your going back ten years when the grant by the arl was under or matching the salary cap

Clubs now receive five million or more over the cap

It’s a totally different landscape for expansion teams

So salary cap of 12.5 million
Nrl grant 17.5 million plus

Plus nz has the advantage of a lower curr cu so the wages are even higher for locals as they are being paid in Aussie dollars
 

Trifili13

Juniors
Messages
1,270
Total viewership combined, NRL wins - most watched sport.
Agree. But you were belittling the AFL that they only get big crowds at 1 stadium and listed various cities where the NRL plays and crowd numbers of the NRL.

The NRL will win arguments based on TV and total viewership between the 2 codes, but won't win it based on crowd numbers going to games.

Even PVL knows that. He will call out record crowds and financial results and that the NRL is the most watched sport on TV, which it is and the ARL admin should get a huge pat on the back for what it has achieved. PVL is happy to compare TV numbers but he never compares crowd figures between the 2 sports because he knows the NRL runs second. And I agree you don't advertise that you are second to your major competitor, you fight the battles you can win.
 

Gobsmacked

Bench
Messages
3,280
just being devils advocate here but titans and knights are both entrenched in massive rugby league heartlands. knights has massive fan support and attendances, titans brand new stadium and both have struggled financially in the last decade to the point they required nrl intervention and ownership. if it was isolated to the titans alone, fair enough but it wasnt.

i think people are overlooking the commercial stength required to ensure a sports club is run smoothly or there's major implications. goes beyond just being in prime location or having a new stadium, so much more to it. history shows us this.

I dont think its a gimme as you do, i think it'll require some seriously good business men and executives running the show and to be honest orcas has some horseshit people parading as competent men and kea has a very disliked man in the game, leading them. i think that needs to be taken on board and just like cumins was brushed, i think orcas have 0 chance with their mob and moffet even less. they need to wash away the shitstains. im all for nz 2 and they'll be there one day for sure but also need to be a realist with it.
Are we talking about today or what?

 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
70,892
They have two excellent stadiums already / will be built

I’m sure if they have to the nrl can pay for their gym memberships at anytime fitness

Council will end up covering that if they have to (coe) it’s not a big cost

Juniors in nz?? lol it’s not wa
I didnt mention a stadium.
Yeh sure, I mean theres been every indication that the Christchurch council are happy to drop $30-50mill on a RL CofE and pay for improved Jnr systems.
The NRL can own the WA license because it knows it doesnt have to fork out for those things here. In Christchurch? Less certain. Its no surprise the NZ bid has put at the forefront the building of a CofE and funding for Jnrs.
 

SirPies&Beers

Juniors
Messages
1,101
all that is great and all but ya still not getting it, ya adding another mouth or 3 to feed and split the overall pie and all 3 will be starting from 0. this isn't the phins.

serious investment is gonna be required and good people will be needed to head the operations of those businesses.

just as quickly as we are seeing revenue overall, we can see losses on individual clubs. downturns can come as quick as upturns. why else you think nrl asked for such a mammoth investment for papua and why theyre asking for a decent investment into resourcing from west aussie? i kinda feel like the bright lights of the revenue records has blinded a few people here into what it actually is gonna take to get more clubs up and running.

another point is theres 0 stopping nrl from starting the west aussie bears alone right now since they are the ones who are gonna fund the club anyways. or being the ones to run and fund the southern nz birdwhales but what about everything else outside the club? who funds that? where does that money come from? isnt that the point of financial security blanket from outside parties i.e. govs? what if the clubs have 4-5 lean years to start off with? whats the collateral vs. lean financial years? can nrl fund both a flailing club and continue to fund its infrastructure and pathways (without gov investment) which reside outside the club grants ?

again just being devils advocate, i dont think its a gimme like you do. highly probable that they'll be a raging success? yes, but there's a chance it wont as well.
 

Gobsmacked

Bench
Messages
3,280
Agree. But you were belittling the AFL that they only get big crowds at 1 stadium and listed various cities where the NRL plays and crowd numbers of the NRL.

The NRL will win arguments based on TV and total viewership between the 2 codes, but won't win it based on crowd numbers going to games.

Even PVL knows that. He will call out record crowds and financial results and that the NRL is the most watched sport on TV, which it is and the ARL admin should get a huge pat on the back for what it has achieved. PVL is happy to compare TV numbers but he never compares crowd figures between the 2 sports because he knows the NRL runs second. And I agree you don't advertise that you are second to your major competitor, you fight the battles you can win.
Different sports, different experience live, different size field..
Only true comparison is overall viewing which NRL wins.
Only AFL fans hold onto this argument.
Truth is, they can't even afford sleeves.
 

Gobsmacked

Bench
Messages
3,280
all that is great and all but ya still not getting it, ya adding another mouth or 3 to feed and split the overall pie and all 3 will be starting from 0. this isn't the phins.

serious investment is gonna be required and good people will be needed to head the operations of those businesses.

just as quickly as we are seeing revenue overall, we can see losses on individual clubs. downturns can come as quick as upturns. why else you think nrl asked for such a mammoth investment for papua and why theyre asking for a decent investment into resourcing from west aussie? i kinda feel like the bright lights of the revenue records has blinded a few people here into what it actually is gonna take to get more clubs up and running.

another point is theres 0 stopping nrl from starting the west aussie bears alone right now since they are the ones who are gonna fund the club anyways. or being the ones to run and fund the southern nz birdwhales but what about everything else outside the club? who funds that? where does that money come from? isnt that the point of financial security blanket from outside parties i.e. govs? what if the clubs have 4-5 lean years to start off with? whats the collateral vs. lean financial years? can nrl fund both a flailing club and continue to fund its infrastructure and pathways (without gov investment) which reside outside the club grants ?

again just being devils advocate, i dont think its a gimme like you do. highly probable that they'll be a raging success? yes, but there's a chance it wont as well.
If you read the article, you'll note as has been well documented that more clubs grow the pie..
 

Trifili13

Juniors
Messages
1,270
Different sports, different experience live, different size field..
Only true comparison is overall viewing which NRL wins.
Only AFL fans hold onto this argument.
Truth is, they can't even afford sleeves.
Good deflection.

Then why does PVL talk about record crowds going to games?

I am big enough to say NRL has greater overall viewership but you can't bring yourself to admit the AFL has larger match day crowds and start talking about different field sizes. WTF has that got to do with match day crowds?
 

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
36,312
I didnt mention a stadium.
Yeh sure, I mean theres been every indication that the Christchurch council are happy to drop $30-50mill on a RL CofE and pay for improved Jnr systems.
The NRL can own the WA license because it knows it doesnt have to fork out for those things here. In Christchurch? Less certain. Its no surprise the NZ bid has put at the forefront the building of a CofE and funding for Jnrs.
Stadiums are one of the most important bits esp re nz

If you are comparing Perth bears or nz2 nz2 wins on every criteria

Stadium
Juniors
Tv deal
International competition
 

Gobsmacked

Bench
Messages
3,280
Good deflection.

Then why does PVL talk about record crowds going to games?

I am big enough to say NRL has greater overall viewership but you can't bring yourself to admit the AFL has larger match day crowds and start talking about different field sizes. WTF has that got to do with match day crowds?
I'm not here to explain basic geometry and math mate.
I admit the AFL has bigger match day crowds, don't know why I need to admit it.. the numbers are there for everyone to see but the reason for that isn't because it's more popular or bigger than league..because we have the numbers for that, more people watch RL . So why the disparity between how fans choose to watch? :
Firstly: an AFL field is larger, meaning that the immediate access to a location to view said field is greater.. the first row ( premium seating) has literally more seats which continues.. to around 100,000 seats that can see without too much difficulty to at least the edge of where play takes place.
Secondly: those seats that can view said field can witness valuable meaning play that takes place throughout the entire circumference of the playing field , making literally the entire stadium a good viewing area.
Thirdly: there's additional play that takes place across the entire playing area that isn't even possible to capture watching on TV, broader play shapes unfolding, jostling for positions, niggling, lead runs.. in particular..none of this is viewed on TV- you have to be at the game to witness those things!
Fouth: Because all seating given the structure of the game is a good spot to view the game, it makes it affordable to have a good viewing experience.
Fith: the game goes for a good amount of time where fans can make more of a day of it for the family ect, again value for money.
Sixth: and what makes this point so special is, it's the cream on top of all the other points...which is, after all the other reasons to go, gets lots of people to go...creating a great atmosphere..which makes people go..!

And there you have it, the AFL is probably the best sport..possible that exists to watch live as opposed to TV. I literally can't think of another sport that is so heavily favourable to watch live than on TV.

I went around 3 games and loved it, had a great day and would go again. Watch it on TV ? pass.
I go to some league games but rarely because it's actually better on TV.
 

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