bluesbreaker said:
Terminator, you haven't actually contributed anything at all. I'm still waiting for _you_ to show me where Michael Moore has lied.
does doctoring evidence count as lies?
BLOOMINGTON -- The Pantagraph has a message for Michael Moore, creator of the movie hit, "Fahrenheit 9/11":
If he wants to "edit" The Pantagraph, he should apply for a copy-editing job and not simply show made-over and "falsely represented" pages from the newspaper in his movie -- or he should at least ask for permission first.
In a moment early in the movie, newspaper headlines from around America that relate to the legally contested 2000 presidential election flash across the screen. One of them is purported to be from a Dec. 19, 2001, edition of The Pantagraph.
But a check of that day's newspaper revealed the large headline prominently flashed in the movie -- "Latest Florida recount shows Gore won election" -- never appeared in that edition.
Instead, the headline appeared in a Dec. 5, 2001, edition -- but not as a news headline. It was in much smaller type above a letter to the editor. Those headlines reflect only the opinions of the letter writer and are not considered "factual" news stories.
In the movie, The Pantagraph page, as shown, was not how a real page from the newspaper would have looked. Moore's version had a different typeface and a different headline size from what The Pantagraph uses. The newspaper's name, however, appears in the correct font.
The letter calls all of this a "misrepresentation of facts."
http://www.pantagraph.com/stories/073004/new_20040730034.shtml
the main point isnt direct lies which moore tries to avoid
it is clear deception
let me demonstrate
1. editing to change context and meaning
condie rices quote as used by moore:
Oh, indeed there is a tie between Iraq and what happened on 9/11.
condie rices full quote in context
Oh, indeed there is a tie between Iraq and what happened on 9/11. Its not that Saddam Hussein was somehow himself and his regime involved in 9/11, but, if you think about what caused 9/11, it is the rise of ideologies of hatred that lead people to drive airplanes into buildings in New York.
this is still using rices words but editing them to mean something else
2. lots of unsupported information to imply a conclusion:
Saudi Arabian interests have given $1.4 billion to firms connected to the family and friends of President George W. Bush.
very unspecific and broad - what constitutes a "freind" of bush
3. implication by context
Fahrenheit shows Moore calling out to Delaware Republican Michael Castle, who is talking on a cell phone and waves Moore off. Castle is presented one of the Congressmen who would not sacrifice his children. What the film omits is that Rep. Castle does not have any children.
4. conclusion by context
his interviews with congress members suggest they are not willing to allow their children to go to war
but
Are Congressional children less likely to serve in Iraq than children from other families? Lets use Moores methodology, and ignore members of extended families (such as nephews) and also ignore service anywhere expect Iraq (even though U.S. forces are currently fighting terrorists in many countries). And like Moore, let us also ignore the fact that some families (like Rep. Castles) have no children, or no children of military age.
We then see that of 535 Congressional families, there are two with a child who served in Iraq. How does this compare with American families in general? In the summer of 2003, U.S. troop levels in Iraq were raised to 145,000. If we factor in troop rotation, we could estimate that about 300,000 people have served in Iraq at some point. According to the Census Bureau, there were 104,705,000 households in the United States in 2000. (See Table 1 of the Census Report.) So the ratio of ordinary U.S. households to Iraqi service personnel is 104,705,000 to 300,000. This reduces to a ratio of 349:1.
In contrast the ratio of Congressional households to Iraqi service personnel is 535:2. This reduces to a ratio of 268:1.
Stated another way, a Congressional household is about 23 percent more likely than an ordinary household to be closely related to an Iraqi serviceman or servicewoman.