NFT: Fahrenheit 9/11

[Chicken_Hunter]

There are a fair few mistakes in moores film.

Tell me the mistakes in his film.

Everyone knows moore manipulates things to suit his argument and to make people he dosnt like look bad.. Even the lefties admit this.

Im not arguing this here.. THeres plenty of this in 4 corners.

 

[Chicken_Hunter]

Here you go..

A nice article on michael moore. http://politics.slate.msn.com/id/2102723/

 

[Nuffy]

Alex

Yes I have waded through the full transcript however there is a abridged version at the top of the website, http://www.davekopel.org/terror/59Deceits.pdf

I couldn't care less about where he was born, there are much greater untruths which build a picture and influence people.

I'm more concerned about the misrepresentations about:

The validity of the US elections,
Bush sending the Saudi's home,
The Sausdi influence over US policy,
The perception that Afganistan was about oil pipelines,
The perception that Iraq was some sort of Utopia under Saddam

It can paint a distorted picture that many people will swallow as fact, you really have to judge it by its motives, absolutely he is entitled to his opinion but people shouldn't assume that its factual and therefore unquestionable.

As Richard Carlton of 60 minutes fame is quoted as saying "Its pure propaganda and I love it"

Interestingly the best rebuttal also comes from Dave Kopel. He says
"There are lots of good reasons why people have chosen to vote
against (or for) the re-election of George Bush. And there are
lots of good reasons why patriotic Americans have decided to
oppose (or support) the war in Iraq. One thing that all the good
reasons have in common is that they are based on facts. In a
democracy, we should try to convince our fellow citizens with
facts and logical reasoning. To manipulate people with frauds
and propaganda is to attack democracy itself."

Good enough for me.

 

[Alex28]

This probably isn't the place to debate how honest not only Moore is, but electronic and print media as well (they are all as guilty as eachother to be quite frank). People just need to see both Fahrenheit 911 and the 59 lies website as what they are - opinion pieces who have an agenda. I dont take either as fact - they both manipulate the facts and evidence they have to suit their story.

My personal opinion is somewhere in between I guess - I have no doubt Bush had an agenda against Iraq (finish off what Dad couldn't) and saw both an Oil source and money to be made by going to war with Iraq. There is no doubting the human cost of what happened over there (both Iraq and the coalition). I think there is something suss about the fact that the FBI couldn't interview members of the Bin Laden family before they flew out of the country (and why the U.S. made such a special effort to get them out of the country to start off with).

While I didn't learn much at all from F911, the army recruiting methods in the States was pretty damning. The mother of the dead Flint soldier (no matter what 59 lies suggests) was hard to watch. The footage of the burnt corpses of the Americans being dragged and paraded around was sickening.

I think if you are going to see one of them (either F911 or 59 lies) you need to see the other before casting judgement.

 

[Terminator]

Its just a smear campaign to try to bring Bush down, Moore has admitted to this.
The fat gob is full of crap.

 

[Alex28]

you know that Moore's critics have got little more to argue with when they start to refer to the guy's weight...

what on earth does his weight have to do with the credibility of the movie?

 

[bluesbreaker]

Moore is a genius, I think a lot of his stuff was copied/mutually evolved from Chomsky, but his movies are great. Honestly, try to discredit what he says yourself, don't rely on right wing nut jobs to do it for you.

edit:

As a little aside, i thought F9/11 was a little disappointing (but still great), especially considering most of his points were already put forth in "Dude Where's My Country?"... Bowling for Columbine was a much, much better movie imo.

 

[Terminator]

Hes a spindoctor, and your falling for his lies.

 

[Matt23]

I'm just surprised Michael Moore has'nt had an "accident" yet

 

[bluesbreaker]

How am I falling for his lies? How does he lie? Do you think he wouldn't have been sued by now if he was lying?

I never doubted he only presents one side of the argument, but give me concrete examples of him lying.

 

[Mr Angry]

Tell what Termy, make a pro bush movie, see how many turn up.

 

[Mr Angry]

BTW I have not watched it or any of Moore's movies.
Far from a film buff here.
Bush is an elitist and proud of it, it is known as the authoritarian right.
I do not need Moore to figure that out.
But if you enjoy a movie experience, related to real life situations it would have merit.

* Awaits Termy's movie making debut *
"We were right anyways"

 

[macavity]

I think Termy is an angry man with issues...

right wing nuts usually are.

 

[Chicken_Hunter]

WE INVADED AFGHANISTAN BECAUSE THEREES A OOOOILLL PIPPPPPEE LINE THERE :lol:

 

[Terminator]

I think Termy is an angry man with issues...

right wing nuts usually are.

yawn whatever

 

[Terminator]

Tell what Termy, make a pro bush movie, see how many turn up.

Alot would turn up, they would probably try to burn the theatre down with me in it :lol:

 

[~bedsy~]

I'm just surprised Michael Moore has'nt had an "accident" yet

Well apprently he has security guards now.

 

[Misanthrope]

He won't have an 'accident' for another few months, if he will at all. Bush would just be setting himself up for a 'copycat Moore' if his greatest critic suddenly died in a car accident.

 

[The_Ben]

Just downloaded 9/11 and watch it today. In regards to Moore, I'd like to see him do GWB's job. I don't think he could handle being an american president for one day

 

[Terminator]

Yes what would this fat gimp do, probably adopt a Isolationists policy, Islamic terrorists would then freely attack the United states and their allies without any fear of retribution, then a sobbing Moore would go on TV and beg the terrorist supporting nations to please stop attacking :lol: