Non Footy Chat Thread II

[JohnStoppafarty]

Yeah, nah.

Maybe if your generating power via a diesel generator, but otherwise, I call bullshit.

You can call it what it you like. That doesn't make it so

 

[JohnStoppafarty]

3 m2 would do it, so very doable, obviously depends on the kva rating of the motor


Electricity Costs for Charging
The fuel efficiency of an all-electric vehicle may be measured in kilowatt-hours (kWh) per 100 miles. To calculate the cost per mile of an all-electric vehicle, the cost of electricity (in dollars per kWh) and the efficiency of the vehicle (how much electricity is used to travel 100 miles) must be known. If electricity costs $0.11 per kWh and the vehicle consumes 34 kWh to travel 100 miles, the cost per mile is about $0.04.

https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_charging_home.html

That might be ok if electricity was 11c kWh but in the real world it averages to 20c/kWh.

 

[Twizzle]

Besides the increased load on existing coal power infrastructure, which realistically is only a problem if every merkin suddenly gets a Tesla or whatever, the batteries themselves are absolutely atrocious.

They are harmful to produce and harmful when disposed of.

it all gets down to the technology available for car batteries, there is some decent technology out there but it hasn't been commercialised for car batteries at this stage but at some stage it will

till then I agree, eCars are political toy for politicians at the moment and not viable unless the power they use is green to compensate for the issues with manufacturing and disposing of batteries

 

[Bandwagon]

You can call it what it you like. That doesn't make it so

And neither does your unsupported statement that it is..................

 

[Bandwagon]

Besides the increased load on existing coal power infrastructure, which realistically is only a problem if every merkin suddenly gets a Tesla or whatever, the batteries themselves are absolutely atrocious.

They are harmful to produce and harmful when disposed of.

And carbon based fuels are not?

The assertion was that they are more harmful, that's what I call as bullshit.,

 

[Bazal]

And carbon based fuels are not?

The assertion was that they are more harmful, that's what I call as bullshit.,

No, the assertion was that they have a long way to go before they are genuinely greener than a modern engine.

As seen below

we are a long way off having electric cars being greener than the new tech (direct injection) of an internal combustion engine.

Given the toxicity of the batteries I find that hard to disagree with. The older Prius batteries only lasted 10-12 years IIRC. So there are Prius' on the road that will be needing their third battery set shortly.

 

[Bandwagon]

it all gets down to the technology available for car batteries, there is some decent technology out there but it hasn't been commercialised for car batteries at this stage but at some stage it will

till then I agree, eCars are political toy for politicians at the moment and not viable unless the power they use is green to compensate for the issues with manufacturing and disposing of batteries

There's a coupla points, re batteries they are all recyclable, the issue is atm for say Lion, it's cheaper to simply dig up and process more lithium than it is to recycle, so the economics don't stack up, however that will change as the tech gets better.

Re what we are charging them with the issue we have is we are moving along in that area, but transport emissions not so much, so as our electricity generation becomes cleaner, we need to be able to leverage that into transport, and we won't do that whilst the national fleet is driven almost entirely on fossil fuels.

 

[Delboy]

An electrical engineer was interviewed today re charging of electric cars in a conversation with a merkin employed to sell new era electric vehicles.

They are looking at a range of a maximum of 400kms in the new models which come out in a few years, overnight charging via home electric installed car charging phase will take minimum 8 Hours, possibly 12 hours.

The 3 phase fast charging will take apparently 2 hours to charge the battery to 80% capacity, which makes distance travelling an issue. Might be good for rest stops and motels as it would give extra customers, but I can see issues if 5 or 6 cars need charging and there are only 2 or 3 fast chargers , imagine the wait time. Difficult to instal fast charges at home given the cabling, and virtually impossible to instal in high rise apartment buildings.

The electrician who is currently installing 3 phase in a couple of parking stations for car charging said that it would take power from100 solar panels in full sun for a number of hours to fully charge an electric car, given the load capacity of the panels.

 

[Gronk]

Raaay copped it on 7.30 Report tonight because of his alleged workplace bullying.

Andrew Moore gave a heartfelt insight into his post Hadley PTSD.

Two other former employees also made allegations.

 

[Twizzle]

There's a coupla points, re batteries they are all recyclable, the issue is atm for say Lion, it's cheaper to simply dig up and process more lithium than it is to recycle, so the economics don't stack up, however that will change as the tech gets better.

Re what we are charging them with the issue we have is we are moving along in that area, but transport emissions not so much, so as our electricity generation becomes cleaner, we need to be able to leverage that into transport, and we won't do that whilst the national fleet is driven almost entirely on fossil fuels.

I agree it will change as its still evolving, when we produce a battery that doesn't need to be manufactured from mined metals we will be on a more sustainable path to making eCars a viable proposition both environmentally and economically

 

[hindy111]

From some merkins that might know a little more about it......

For example, the average price for electricity per kilowatt hour (kWh) in Australia is about $0.25 and it takes around 18 kWh to travel 100km in an average EV. So, it will cost approximately $4.50in electricity charges to travel 100km2.

https://www.ergon.com.au/network/smarter-energy/electric-vehicles/charging-your-electric-vehicle

Now to get that kind of cost in fuel @ 1.50 / litre you'll need to be pulling 3 litres per 100km, given 6L/100km is pretty frugal, that's still twice the price.

Elec is closer to 28cents a KW. So that takes it too $5 per 100km. Plus be some sort of losses. Atleast a few %.
And see with batteries as they age they don't last as long. Look at any battery tool. So 25% may get you 100kms and cost $5 but at start but as it ages that $5 to charge will maybe get you 70kms.Safer to put it at around $6 per 100kms....
As I reckon there tests are when it is brand spanking new.

Now fuel in Sydney has been anywhere between $1.16 - $1.50 the last 12 months. You chose the highest price. Lets use the median of say $1.35.
That will get you 4.5 litres. Or 45-70km for most cars. So yes in some cases better then half while in others a little better off.

What I would then need to see is a torque curve to see underload the difference. Petrol cars will vary maybe 10-20%. Electric I reckon will get smashed. Look at a battery tools when work them hard.

Again there tests will be to suit their product.

Possitive I see is if its a brushless electric motor I imagine no real maintenance.
Negative are batteries will die within 7yrd and prob be only half as good as when new after 3 or 4. Whst is replacement costs?

 

[Gronk]

An electrical engineer was interviewed today re charging of electric cars in a conversation with a merkin employed to sell new era electric vehicles.

They are looking at a range of a maximum of 400kms in the new models which come out in a few years, overnight charging via home electric installed car charging phase will take minimum 8 Hours, possibly 12 hours.

The 3 phase fast charging will take apparently 2 hours to charge the battery to 80% capacity, which makes distance travelling an issue. Might be good for rest stops and motels as it would give extra customers, but I can see issues if 5 or 6 cars need charging and there are only 2 or 3 fast chargers , imagine the wait time. Difficult to instal fast charges at home given the cabling, and virtually impossible to instal in high rise apartment buildings.

The electrician who is currently installing 3 phase in a couple of parking stations for car charging said that it would take power from100 solar panels in full sun for a number of hours to fully charge an electric car, given the load capacity of the panels.

Charging options for ev are here.

https://www.teslaowners.org.au/charging

 

[Bandwagon]

No, the assertion was that they have a long way to go before they are genuinely greener than a modern engine.

As seen below



Given the toxicity of the batteries I find that hard to disagree with. The older Prius batteries only lasted 10-12 years IIRC. So there are Prius' on the road that will be needing their third battery set shortly.

Again an assertion has been made without any support whatsoever, then as an argument you offer up a 20yo vehicle as an example?

We aren't discussing 20 year old tech , that's as ridiculous as comparing modern EV's with the emissions of a VT commodore.

 

[hindy111]

That might be ok if electricity was 11c kWh but in the real world it averages to 20c/kWh.

28cents...Who gets it for 20?

 

[strider]

I'd like to see the VW electric car tests before I make a judgement

 

[Twizzle]

The electrician who is currently installing 3 phase in a couple of parking stations for car charging said that it would take power from100 solar panels in full sun for a number of hours to fully charge an electric car, given the load capacity of the panels.

thats bullshit, I can go into the technical side of it if you like but in short that is a gross exaggeration

we have an event in Australia where modified vehicles can drive from Darwin to Adelaide on a couple of panels non stop, that wont apply to eCars obviously but an electrician should know better

 

[hindy111]

3 phase? Well what houses have 3 phase? Barely any. So do people pay for 3 phase?
Single phase would be slower but they are talking 40amp charges. That would blow the elec grid up. It claps out when people are putting Air cons on. On avergae theyd prob be 6amps for an inverted split and 12amps for a ducted system....

And most houses are good for 63 Amps. So if your cars dragging 40Amps so forget two cars at once and if you had an air con on there is 50Amps gone.... turn the kettle on would pull 10 amps. You wouldn't be able to use oven in summer and have air con on whilst cars charging without popping your service fuses..

 

[JohnStoppafarty]

And neither does your unsupported statement that it is..................

I agree.

 

[T.S Quint]

Raaay copped it on 7.30 Report tonight because of his alleged workplace bullying.

Andrew Moore gave a heartfelt insight into his post Hadley PTSD.

Two other former employees also made allegations.

I watched that report just thinking, “Isn’t this stuff we already know?”
Ray is a merkin. A bully. We already knew that. This is not a surprise, and the report didn’t really tell us any new information.

I hate Hadley as much as the next guy, but was this really necessary?

 

[JohnStoppafarty]

28cents...Who gets it for 20?

I think we get it for 22. the point is that it's nowhere near 11.