What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Non Footy Chat Thread II

Bazal

Post Whore
Messages
101,796
Again an assertion has been made without any support whatsoever, then as an argument you offer up a 20yo vehicle as an example?

We aren't discussing 20 year old tech , that's as ridiculous as comparing modern EV's with the emissions of a VT commodore.

What? Why do all 4C regulars who creep out elsewhere do that, BTW?

You're conflating a comment, a general comment, I made about electric car batteries with something you misread in another posters post. All I have really been saying is that the batteries are still much more environmentally awful than anyone realises or will admit. Are 20 year old batteries not relevant to that for some reason in your eyes?

The fact is that from the inception of the Prius for eg until now, there have been advances in battery technology, but that hasn't stopped loads of batteries from being replaced and will not yet stop loads more. However the tech has not made the batteries any less toxic to manufacture or dispose of yet, and that's before you take into account the environmental impact involved with sourcing and transporting some of the elements.

You've taken the tried and true 4C approach and attempted to position that point in direct opposition to yours, when in fact it's simply saying that no, wait, there is a long way to go yet with this tech and RIGHT NOW it's not the saviour that, say, the NRMA are trying to suggest when they suggest banning new petrol cars in 6 years time...Nor is it the zero impact environmental angel that some other proponents try and suggest, yet.
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
152,214
I watched that report just thinking, “Isn’t this stuff we already know?”
Ray is a merkin. A bully. We already knew that. This is not a surprise, and the report didn’t really tell us any new information.

I hate Hadley as much as the next guy, but was this really necessary?

I cant see Raaay bending over cheeks spread and taking this too lightly, I saw a bit of it and I reckon he'll fire back

was channel surfing and stayed on the ABC, loved it tho, hate the merkin
 

Bandwagon

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
43,481
Elec is closer to 28cents a KW. So that takes it too $5 per 100km. Plus be some sort of losses. Atleast a few %.

I pay 31c / KWH peak less 18% if bill paid on time, so pretty close to 25c,

And see with batteries as they age they don't last as long. Look at any battery tool. So 25% may get you 100kms and cost $5 but at start but as it ages that $5 to charge will maybe get you 70kms.Safer to put it at around $6 per 100kms....
As I reckon there tests are when it is brand spanking new.

Yes they degrade with age, do you think that as an internal combustion engine ages and wears, it gets more or less fuel efficient?

Now fuel in Sydney has been anywhere between $1.16 - $1.50 the last 12 months. You chose the highest price. Lets use the median of say $1.35.
That will get you 4.5 litres. Or 45-70km for most cars. So yes in some cases better then half while in others a little better off.

Premium Unleaded costs me around a buck sixty, which is what you need for a modern fuel efficient turbo.

What I would then need to see is a torque curve to see underload the difference. Petrol cars will vary maybe 10-20%. Electric I reckon will get smashed. Look at a battery tools when work them hard.

You're confusing power and torque, the kinds of motors used in EV's don't have a "torque curve" torque is flat, 100% available regardless of RPM. and any tool will only do so much work, thatis a function of it's available power. If you ask it to do a job that requires more power than available, they will stop, simple. Learn to use your tools, not abuse them.
 

Suitman

Post Whore
Messages
55,520
Raaay copped it on 7.30 Report tonight because of his alleged workplace bullying.

Andrew Moore gave a heartfelt insight into his post Hadley PTSD.

Two other former employees also made allegations.

Radio broadcaster Ray Hadley faces fresh bullying allegations
7.30
By Andy Park
Posted 58 minutes ago

Several former staff at radio station 2GB have come forward with fresh allegations of bullying against high-profile broadcaster Ray Hadley.

Key points:
  • ABC Grandstand presenter Andrew Moore says he was bullied by former colleague Ray Hadley
  • Long-time former panel operator Chris Bowen's Facebook post about working at 2GB encourages others to come forward
  • This week Mr Hadley said on the air that he takes responsibility for his "former behaviour"


Former colleagues describe Hadley as a man prone to fits of rage who would threaten, bully and intimidate them in the workplace.

Hadley is one of the most powerful voices in the country with a direct line to those in power. Peter Dutton and Tony Abbott have appeared on his show regularly, and as treasurer, Scott Morrison used to appear every week.

ABC Grandstand presenter Andrew Moore has known Hadley for 35 years, and said he experienced his violent temper from the outset.

"My first meeting [with Hadley] was my first day of work experience in 1984 [at 2UE]. I was in Year 10 so I would have been 15," Moore told 7.30.

"He ripped the [tape] machineout, threw it against the wall, smashed into a million pieces …

"That was within the first five minutes of meeting him.

"That was an extreme case that I saw replicated."


Years later Moore worked again with Hadley, this time as a professional colleague doing rugby league commentary at 2GB.

"He's a very hardworking broadcaster. He's been a very successful broadcaster," Moore said.

"As a human being, I think he's a bully. I think he thrives on intimidation … yelling and screaming."

Photo: Andrew Moore says he complained to 2GB management about Ray Hadley's behaviour. (ABC News)


But Moore said the alleged bullying was not always overt, and said the two fell out over a scheduling conflict.

"The last year there, isolation was a kit in his bag that he used with me," he said.

It was Moore's wife who pointed out the psychological toll that work was having on him.

"She was saying, 'No, that's you. You go to bed, you don't talk'," he said.

"It makes you feel weak."

Moore sought help from a psychologist, citing his work with Hadley as a contributing factor to his mental health issues.

"So I eventually went to a psychologist, got told I had anxiety," Moore said.

"I hated going to work. And I hate feeling so weak."

Four-and-a-half years later, he said he was still feeling the effects.

"Just from time to time, when I feel stressed," he said.

"It's just the effect on your wife and your kids.

Moore complained to 2GB management but the complaint ended up in Hadley's hands, who referred to it on the air, according to Moore.

"What I thought were private emails [were] being referred to on air by Ray, laughing about them. Not mentioning me by name, but it was clear, at least to me," he said.

Hadley told 7.30 in a statement: "I don't remember such an incident."

'I went downstairs and nearly vomited'

Former 2GB staff member Jesse Perez said Hadley's conduct extended to those he was not directly working with.

"Ray Hadley had nothing to do with my employment there. He's an on-air presenter. I was working for the newsroom," Mr Perez said.

Mr Perez wrote a satirical article while working for 2GB in 2009 which raised Hadley's ire.

"He didn't really understand the humour. I was called into his studio. That situation felt like I was being fed to the lions," Mr Perez said.

"I was there for about 10, 15 minutes. The timeframe is a bit blurry, but it was essentially a furious diatribe. It was a ferocious amount of rage that was directed at me. Expletives out the wazoo.

"Every possible name under the sun was given to me. He said that he would drag me by my effing ear up to Singo [Macquarie Radio Network shareholder John Singleton], and have me out on my ass.

"I went downstairs and nearly vomited from, like, a panic. It was like my guts fell out of my body because I've never experienced anything of that ferocity in my professional life.

"That would continue for the next few months."

Mr Perez says he reported the behaviour to management.

"[Management] said to me, 'Look, it's really important that we know this stuff, that you communicate this incident to us because we need to know this'. But nothing was done about it."

Hadley's close former colleague breaks his silence
Photo: Ray Hadley and his former personal panel operator, Chris Bowen. (Supplied: Chris Bowen)


Allegations of bullying were initially detailed in a Facebook post by former 2GB staff member Chris Bowen.

Mr Bowen worked as Hadley's personal panel operator for 16 years. Hadley was even master of ceremonies at Mr Bowen's wedding.

"You think you're in the good books with Ray one moment, and then subsequently you're not," Mr Bowen told 7.30.

In 2010 Mr Bowen wrote an email to Hadley to complain about having to wheel Hadley's chair in and out of the studio, a task Mr Bowen said was "degrading".

Hadley shot back in an email: "Do it or find another job."

Mr Bowen said his workplace experience was one of a number of contributing factors leading him to seek mental health treatment.


Hadley was ferocious in hounding politicians into overturning the greyhound racing ban in NSW.

Imre Salusinszky was targeted by Hadley on-air because of his role advising former NSW premier Mike Baird.

"I have a longstanding concern, before any of this arose, about the tendency of the political class, particularly conservative politicians, to regard Hadley as an ally or to give into at least threats," Mr Salusinszky said.

"I think it reflects poorly on them. I think it leads to poor policy. And I also think it reflects a view of the media landscape that's very old fashioned, been completely out of sync with where people are now going for their information and news.

"These guys have to step back. They have to step away while these allegations are seriously investigated because workplace bullying destroys lives and is not on."

Former 2GB broadcaster Jim Ball said action had to be taken against Hadley.

"Hadley needs to go … management should go … they have an opportunity to clean the joint out of the empty suits," Mr Ball said.

'He's got to be accountable'
Moore blamed various management teams at 2GB for a lack of action regarding Hadley.

"He brings in a lot of revenue. They pay him a lot of money and they're going to protect that at all costs," he said.

Moore had mixed feelings about speaking out, remembering Hadley was one of the reasons he wanted to get into radio in the first place.

"Whether it is abuse, threats, isolation, he's got to be accountable for it," Moore said.

Hadley addressed the allegations on the air this week.

"I took responsibility for my former behaviour, which has been well-documented. I gave my word in 2013 to my fellow staff members, the sort of culture I grew up in would no longer be the standard," he said.

Hadley told 7.30 in a statement he did not recall the incidents raised by Moore.

Hadley said on air he did not recall Mr Perez, but later told 7.30 he thought Mr Perez's article was "inappropriate".

"I'd like to make amends with anyone who has been affected by my past behaviour," Hadley said.

Mr Bowen said making a complaint about Hadley to 2GB was "about as effective as setting yourself on fire".

2GB CEO Adam Lang said "the outcome of any complaint, concern or investigation is part of a confidential process between the person complaining, the person being investigated and the company".

In a statement, 2GB said it had received no formal complaints from Moore, Mr Bowen or Mr Perez.

Watch Andy Park's story on Ray Hadley tonight on 7.30.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-03/ray-hadley-faces-fresh-bullying-allegations/10958154
 

hindy111

Post Whore
Messages
61,567
I pay 31c / KWH peak less 18% if bill paid on time, so pretty close to 25c,



Yes they degrade with age, do you think that as an internal combustion engine ages and wears, it gets more or less fuel efficient?

The difference with a battery could be well over 30-40%.after 3 or 4 yrs. And I hear dead after 7. An engine maybe 5 - 10% worse once hits around 500,000kms. That could take on average 25yrs. Plenty of cabs pushing 700,000kms....So not in modt people lifetime.



Premium Unleaded costs me around a buck sixty, which is what you need for a modern fuel efficient turbo.

I put ethanol in a 3yld SV6 ute.


You're confusing power and torque, the kinds of motors used in EV's don't have a "torque curve" torque is flat, 100% available regardless of RPM. and any tool will only do so much work, thatis a function of it's available power. If you ask it to do a job that requires more power than available, they will stop, simple. Learn to use your tools, not abuse them.

Ok I see...electric is delviered different. So all about the power.
 

hindy111

Post Whore
Messages
61,567
The difference with a battery could be well over 30-40%.after 3 or 4 yrs. And I hear dead after 7. An engine maybe 5 - 10% worse once hits around 500,000kms. That could take on average 25yrs. Plenty of cabs pushing 700,000kms....So not in modt people lifetime.
 

hindy111

Post Whore
Messages
61,567
My sv6 ute is 2-3yrs old.
I use ethanol and see little if any difference in premium as far as fuel economy.
 

hindy111

Post Whore
Messages
61,567
How much torque do you have?

No I was wrong. Bandwagon is right....

I guess it comes down to this. How much pollution to make say 100kwatts of power which give 400kms compared too 40 litres of fuel.

Really its about the environment long term.....
 

Bandwagon

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
43,481
What? Why do all 4C regulars who creep out elsewhere do that, BTW?

You're conflating a comment, a general comment, I made about electric car batteries with something you misread in another posters post. All I have really been saying is that the batteries are still much more environmentally awful than anyone realises or will admit. Are 20 year old batteries not relevant to that for some reason in your eyes?

The fact is that from the inception of the Prius for eg until now, there have been advances in battery technology, but that hasn't stopped loads of batteries from being replaced and will not yet stop loads more. However the tech has not made the batteries any less toxic to manufacture or dispose of yet, and that's before you take into account the environmental impact involved with sourcing and transporting some of the elements.

You've taken the tried and true 4C approach and attempted to position that point in direct opposition to yours, when in fact it's simply saying that no, wait, there is a long way to go yet with this tech and RIGHT NOW it's not the saviour that, say, the NRMA are trying to suggest when they suggest banning new petrol cars in 6 years time...Nor is it the zero impact environmental angel that some other proponents try and suggest, yet.

Oh dear.

20 year old tech is not relevant in a discussion about where EV's are now because, well, tech has been improving, as you acknowledge.

As for your childish digs at "4C whatever", that's not an argument mate, here's the thing, I challenged the validity of the statement...........

"After you consider how dirty it is to make the batteries and fire up the electricity to charge it, we are a long way off having electric cars being greener than the new tech (direct injection) of an internal combustion engine. Should they try to? Yes. Are they there yet? Not even close."

On that I call bullshit, that's it mate, If you wish to pretend it's something else, up to you.

If you like, you could present some kind of evidence that supports this statement,, which might refute my call of bullshit, or you could continue on in the pointless vein you have above, again, up to you.
 

Bandwagon

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
43,481
My sv6 ute is 2-3yrs old.
I use ethanol and see little if any difference in premium as far as fuel economy.

Ethanol can be fairly high octane, ( avgas 100 is basically all ethanol ) but it's corrosive as all f**k to plastic and rubber components in your fuel system, and is also reasonably hygroscopic, so can be problematic in that regard.

I wouldn't use it at all.
 

hindy111

Post Whore
Messages
61,567
Ethanol can be fairly high octane, ( avgas 100 is basically all ethanol ) but it's corrosive as all f**k to plastic and rubber components in your fuel system, and is also reasonably hygroscopic, so can be problematic in that regard.

I wouldn't use it at all.


In old cars yeah maybe..I run normal unleaded and ethanol whatever I pick up at nozzle. It says it's ok on fuel cap. I doubt manufacturers woukd want to cover warranties if ethanol caused issues.
 

Bazal

Post Whore
Messages
101,796
Oh dear.

20 year old tech is not relevant in a discussion about where EV's are now because, well, tech has been improving, as you acknowledge.

As for your childish digs at "4C whatever", that's not an argument mate, here's the thing, I challenged the validity of the statement...........

"After you consider how dirty it is to make the batteries and fire up the electricity to charge it, we are a long way off having electric cars being greener than the new tech (direct injection) of an internal combustion engine. Should they try to? Yes. Are they there yet? Not even close."

On that I call bullshit, that's it mate, If you wish to pretend it's something else, up to you.

If you like, you could present some kind of evidence that supports this statement,, which might refute my call of bullshit, or you could continue on in the pointless vein you have above, again, up to you.

Evidence such as you've provided, I suppose?

Ultimately, I'm not actually trying to have an argument because there is in fact no argument. You've tried to create one without actually adding anything of your own tbh. In fact you even quoted, and then disregarded, a post where I said the impact on existing fossil-fuel power infrastructure is fairly meaningless unless every single person suddenly bought a Tesla.

Do you disagree that the production and disposal of batteries, over the last twenty odd years right up until now, has in fact been quite toxic? Do you disagree that there is still meaningful environmental damage done in the extraction/production process and the transporting of materials for these batteries? Because that's what you've called bullshit in my case. All I've been saying is that electric cars aren't anywhere near as "green" as many would have you believe. Everything else is some sort of false equivalence of my point with your original misreading of a comment.

Simple as that really. You wanna read anything else into that and I'd suggest you go back to wrangling loons like Cerberus and Walter whatever the f**k he calls himself.
 

Bandwagon

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
43,481
No I was wrong. Bandwagon is right....

I guess it comes down to this. How much pollution to make say 100kwatts of power which give 400kms compared too 40 litres of fuel.

Really its about the environment long term.....

On that measure battery kills it, but that's not at all representative, you need to account for whole of life, manufacture, use, disposal.

Ev's are about 40-60% more pollution intensive to manufacture, yet create far less pollution in use. So in order to be "greener" they need to be used for a reasonable amount of time.
 
Top