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Non Footy Chat Thread II

Suitman

Post Whore
Messages
56,195
I'm dead serious mate. I live here, I should know.

If you're on Facebook, go check out the absolute discontent on the Transport Canberra page. Canberra's recent history with transport infrastructure is shocking...

It currently only services Gungahlin to the City, one of the newest and least populated areas of town. It's completely wrecked Northbourne Avenue, which was already an absolute nightmare traffic wise (by Canberra standards) in peak times. Even at full implementation it will basically only run from Mawson to Gungahlin/Belconnen and out to the airport, meaning the entire Tuggeranong Valley and Weston Creek/Molonglo areas have no benefit. That's well over a third of the population, probably more once suburbs like Wright and Molonglo and Coombs and Denman really take off, as well as the new suburbs proposed for even further out that way.

All of that would be perfectly acceptable if it hadn't had a net detrimental impact on public transport in Canberra.

Transport Canberra have had to cut and redirect expenditure to the point that they have slashed at least 50% of bus routes. There are thousands of school kids who now will not have a service, or who the govt expect to walk half an hour to get on a school service. Personally I've gone from having a bus along my street and one two streets away to having to walk 2km to the nearest route. My suburb (which is 7km from end to end, roughly) has gone from having four bus routes to having one. People in some of the (densely populated) inner south and Woden north suburbs who don't have tram access have gone from having a direct bus to the city, to having to catch three buses and spend 1-1.5 hours in transit each way. It's a 20 minute drive from most of these suburbs in the heaviest traffic.

Essentially, the light rail as it stands will put more cars on the road, not less. The entire transport plan has hammered school routes and other heavily used bus routes, to the point where it actually and genuinely risks the safety of school kids who might half to walk half an hour or more to the nearest bus route, then wait in a dodgy interchange (Woden interchange is one of the seediest spots in the whole ACT, for eg) for however long before the next bus.

The light rail itself is fine,if pretty limited, but the plan in its' entirety has turned into an absolute clusterf**k and you won't find many Canberrans happy with how it's turned out so far

Until it is up and running. And extended.
Here's a list of all scheduled services along Northbourne Avenue departing Civic from 1700 to 1759:

17:02 - 255 to Bonner
17:04 - 39 to Watson
17:04 - 252 to Belconnen
17:05 - 56 to Gungahlin
17:07 - 30 to Belconnen
17:07 - 259 to Amaroo
17:08 - 58 to Gungahlin
17:11 - 712 to Spence
17:11 - 254 to Belconnen
17:12 - 57 to Gungahlin
17:14 - 39 to Watson
17:14 - 200 to Gungahlin
17:16 - 251 to Belconnen
17:17 - 31 to Belconnen
17:19 - 255 to Bonner
17:20 - 714 to Fraser
17:21 - 252 to Belconnen
17:24 - 39 to Watson
17:24 - 259 to Amaroo
17:25 - 56 to Gungahlin
17:26 - 30 to Belconnen
17:27 - 254 to Belconnen
17:28 - 58 to Gungahlin
17:30 - 200 to Gungahlin
17:32 - 57 to Gungahlin
17:32 - 251 to Belconnen
17:35 - 255 to Bonner
17:37 - 31 to Belconnen
17:38 - 252 to Belconnen
17:39 - 712 to Spence
17:39 - 39 to Watson
17:41 - 259 to Amaroo
17:44 - 200 to Gungahlin
17:45 - 56 to Gungahlin
17:46 - 30 to Belconnen
17:47 - 714 to Fraser
17:47 - 254 to Belconnen
17:48 - 58 to Gungahlin
17:50 - 251 to Belconnen
17:52 - 57 to Gungahlin
17:53 - 200 to Gungahlin
17:54 - 39 to Watson
17:56 - 255 to Bonner
17:57 - 31 to Belconnen
17:59 - 259 to Amaroo

That's 45 buses in the space of one hour.
 
Last edited:

Bazal

Post Whore
Messages
103,707
Until it is up and running.

You're seriously going to brush off the myriad of issues with that cop out? That's very arrogant and dismissive, if I'm honest. You'll find that the Glenloch interchange is still widely regarded as a f**king disaster so I'm not even sure how you form that idea?

Anyone who lives south of Civic won't even have a cause to USE the thing for anything other than novelty value until the line to Mawson is built. It's almost exclusively serving city workers and ANU students who live in Gungahlin, Harrison and the inner north.

I'd suggest that the 50% of the ACT population (actually, more than that given no service to Belco yet) who are now facing savagely reduced public transport availability probably have more valid opinions on it than someone 300km away who doesn't see the problems...no offence mate, but if you don't know the issues and aren't willing to even entertain them then how can you form a proper opinion?

I understand you're a big fan of infrastructure improvement, but the net result of this is actually a significant transport loss for Canberra. How can that possibly be a good thing?
 

Suitman

Post Whore
Messages
56,195
You're seriously going to brush off the myriad of issues with that cop out? That's very arrogant and dismissive, if I'm honest. You'll find that the Glenloch interchange is still widely regarded as a f**king disaster so I'm not even sure how you form that idea?

No, I'm not being arrogant and dismissive. Any sort of infrastructure improvements are a bonus to any city.

Anyone who lives south of Civic won't even have a cause to USE the thing for anything other than novelty value until the line to Mawson is built. It's almost exclusively serving city workers and ANU students who live in Gungahlin, Harrison and the inner north.

I'd suggest that the 50% of the ACT population (actually, more than that given no service to Belco yet) who are now facing savagely reduced public transport availability probably have more valid opinions on it than someone 300km away who doesn't see the problems...no offence mate, but if you don't know the issues and aren't willing to even entertain them then how can you form a proper opinion?

I'm sorry, but surely I'm allowed to form a proper opinion considering future planning of the extension of this system?
Yeh, sure, it doesn't service much of the current population. It's just the first stage of what is planned to be a much larger light rail system.

I understand you're a big fan of infrastructure improvement, but the net result of this is actually a significant transport loss for Canberra. How can that possibly be a good thing?

We won't know until it is finished. It has to be better surely, than the crap transport system that Canberra already has. Gunghalin is a huge growth area. Is it not better to develop infrastructure like this before it is too late?
Yes, I'm a big infrastructure fan. This system may not benefit everyone at the moment, but it's a start. It's CERTAINLY not the debacle you make it out to be.
 

Bazal

Post Whore
Messages
103,707
No, I'm not being arrogant and dismissive. Any sort of infrastructure improvements are a bonus to any city.

So long as they are properly managed, introduced and integrated.

It is not a blanket "well it's new so therefore it's better" and you know that. It is also not an improvement if the entire transport project results in a net detriment as this one has.

I'm sorry, but surely I'm allowed to form a proper opinion considering future planning of the extension of this system?
Yeh, sure, it doesn't service much of the current population. It's just the first stage of what is planned to be a much larger light rail system.

You're more than entitled to an opinion. But how can you form a proper opinion when you're ignoring the actual facts about the problems with it? What makes you think you know more than the ACT residents about it? Once again, it is not, and never is, a case of "well it's new so therefore it's better".

It's not going to be "much" larger. It's going to extend to Mawson, the airport and Belconnen. But like I've already said, the light rail is not the issue in and of itself. The issue is the absolute abortion of a transport system they have created alongside it.

We won't know until it is finished. It has to be better surely, than the crap transport system that Canberra already has. Gunghalin is a huge growth area. Is it not better to develop infrastructure like this before it is too late?

But it isn't better, because the new transport plan has severely reduced public transport options. A shiny new tram doesn't paper over that.

Take my suburb. It is one of the largest in Canberra and right now is served by five bus routes. Admittedly, that's probably not necessary, especially when two of them run almost the same route.

However, that will be cut to ONE under the new transport plan. One bus route that runs along a road 1.5km walk from the furthest north end of the suburb. Great for the elderly, or small kids, wouldn't you agree?

School routes have taken an even bigger hit. The local primary now has one school route...or a near enough to 1km walk to the local service to Woden or Erindale/Tuggeranong. Perfect for 6 year old kids.

Gungahlin is growing, although it's slowed a bit with the developments out near Weston. But the families are shifting into Woden and Tuggeranong Valleys and Inner Weston, the areas that have no light rail coverage and have suffered the most in terms of bus routes.

Yes, I'm a big infrastructure fan. This system may not benefit everyone at the moment, but it's a start. It's CERTAINLY not the debacle you make it out to be.

But it is a debacle for the foreseeable future, when you take the entire plan into account. Because they have applied a plan meant for the finished product before we even have a fixed end date for the project! The light rail itself is not the issue, it's the fact that once again the ACT govt has utterly f**ked an infrastructure project. This is not a light rail in isolation, it's a complete public transport plan for a rapidly growing city. Can you honestly not separate that from the trams as one part of the project?

It leaves much of the city with significantly reduced public transport options. On top of that, it is currently not planned to go further south than Mawson unless they add to the plan after the current final stage, which is 15km from the centre of Banks, the southernmost suburb. It is also not planned to go to Weston or any of the new developments out that way

Now, obviously they could and probably might add to the network, but given we're at stage one of four (and several of those stages have stages themselves) that will take, what, a decade? Maybe more given the corridors aren't as easy to modify as Northbourne/Flemington Aves. In the meantime that means 50% of the population or more have significantly reduced options for public transport, ESPECIALLY school services which have been gutted.

That means more cars on the road, not less. Especially Southside, which the government consistently neglects in more ways than just their half-cocked transport plan. More cars on arterial roads that will inevitably be less capable of dealing with the traffic because of the light rail.

It's a clusterf**k, mate. They have gone off early and disadvantaged easily three or four times as many people as they have helped with the light rail itself.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,911
So long as they are properly managed, introduced and integrated.

It is not a blanket "well it's new so therefore it's better" and you know that. It is also not an improvement if the entire transport project results in a net detriment as this one has.



You're more than entitled to an opinion. But how can you form a proper opinion when you're ignoring the actual facts about the problems with it? What makes you think you know more than the ACT residents about it? Once again, it is not, and never is, a case of "well it's new so therefore it's better".

It's not going to be "much" larger. It's going to extend to Mawson, the airport and Belconnen. But like I've already said, the light rail is not the issue in and of itself. The issue is the absolute abortion of a transport system they have created alongside it.



But it isn't better, because the new transport plan has severely reduced public transport options. A shiny new tram doesn't paper over that.

Take my suburb. It is one of the largest in Canberra and right now is served by five bus routes. Admittedly, that's probably not necessary, especially when two of them run almost the same route.

However, that will be cut to ONE under the new transport plan. One bus route that runs along a road 1.5km walk from the furthest north end of the suburb. Great for the elderly, or small kids, wouldn't you agree?

School routes have taken an even bigger hit. The local primary now has one school route...or a near enough to 1km walk to the local service to Woden or Erindale/Tuggeranong. Perfect for 6 year old kids.

Gungahlin is growing, although it's slowed a bit with the developments out near Weston. But the families are shifting into Woden and Tuggeranong Valleys and Inner Weston, the areas that have no light rail coverage and have suffered the most in terms of bus routes.



But it is a debacle for the foreseeable future, when you take the entire plan into account. Because they have applied a plan meant for the finished product before we even have a fixed end date for the project! The light rail itself is not the issue, it's the fact that once again the ACT govt has utterly f**ked an infrastructure project. This is not a light rail in isolation, it's a complete public transport plan for a rapidly growing city. Can you honestly not separate that from the trams as one part of the project?

It leaves much of the city with significantly reduced public transport options. On top of that, it is currently not planned to go further south than Mawson unless they add to the plan after the current final stage, which is 15km from the centre of Banks, the southernmost suburb. It is also not planned to go to Weston or any of the new developments out that way

Now, obviously they could and probably might add to the network, but given we're at stage one of four (and several of those stages have stages themselves) that will take, what, a decade? Maybe more given the corridors aren't as easy to modify as Northbourne/Flemington Aves. In the meantime that means 50% of the population or more have significantly reduced options for public transport, ESPECIALLY school services which have been gutted.

That means more cars on the road, not less. Especially Southside, which the government consistently neglects in more ways than just their half-cocked transport plan. More cars on arterial roads that will inevitably be less capable of dealing with the traffic because of the light rail.

It's a clusterf**k, mate. They have gone off early and disadvantaged easily three or four times as many people as they have helped with the light rail itself.

I'm with Suits on his one, besides it's new so therefore it's better.
 

Gary Gutful

Post Whore
Messages
53,207
I've gotta maintain the lie so people think I live there for witness pro... I mean, I am a passionate citizen of our national capital and this issue is important to me personally.
That’s alright. I don’t actually live in Brisbane either. I live in Redfern.
 
Messages
2,806
The neighbours have a new baby. The 2nd one in little over a year.(WTF?) It's got some lungs and I'm pretty sure it's an incubus. I'm no priest but it is disturbing me. Isn't this planet overpopulated enough already?nieghbours baby..jpg
 

eels81236

Bench
Messages
3,643
My horse runs at Randwick tomorrow. Race 3. Disruptor. The trainer says he will be very hard to beat. Fingers crossed.

*Gamble responsibly
 

Avenger

Immortal
Messages
34,435
Over the last few weekends I’ve been looking at property in the Eastern Suburbs. There really are some beautiful spots out there but my God it’s expensive.
Love the vibe there. People seem to be more beautiful too but they must be pricks.

Mrs Avenger’s tastes however way exceed our budget and I don’t think she will be as close to the Harbour as she wants unless we opt for an apartment which I’m resistant to.
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
78,111
Over the last few weekends I’ve been looking at property in the Eastern Suburbs. There really are some beautiful spots out there but my God it’s expensive.
Love the vibe there. People seem to be more beautiful too but they must be pricks.

Mrs Avenger’s tastes however way exceed our budget and I don’t think she will be as close to the Harbour as she wants unless we opt for an apartment which I’m resistant to.
source.gif
 
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