Non Footy Chat Thread II

[The Silverdale Phantom]

It’s just bad timing to have a referendum.

And if gets over the line, Duttonites might stage a march on the parliament.

Then realise that it’s a High Court decision and capture the Bench demanding it be overturned.


Dutton takes off his red cap (Make Australia f**ked Again), puts on a wig and declares the result to be “unconstitutional” in accordance with

section 666:

“ Anything proposed by any person or body, with the intention of doing a thing or act that is done or may be done effecting anything to which there is the intention of proposing anything by a person or body, may not result in the requisite vibe so required to change the constitution.”

Which is why we should have never abandoned appeals to the UK as a safety or possibly ask the US Supreme Court to decide.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Pou posits this as a topical and contemporary manifestation of “white guilt”

Why would people vote against their interests other than guilt?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

If it’s got no real power, it’s a symbolic gesture.

No, a symbolic gesture is the acknowledgement of country, which is the political equivalent of starting a sentence "With all due respect..."

The Voice is constitutional recognition that one group of Australians, by virtue of birth, deserves separate (i.e. more) political rights than all the other Australians.

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

No, a symbolic gesture is the acknowledgement of country, which is the political equivalent of starting a sentence "With all due respect..."

The Voice is constitutional recognition that one group of Australians, by virtue of birth, deserves separate (i.e. more) political rights than all the other Australians.

What political rights has it?

It has no real power to do anything.

Power needs to be bestowed upon its decisions by others including Parliament.

Like other lobby groups.

It may get more press attention or whatever but I think that’s it.

In and of itself, it can’t even veto a decision to bulldoze Uluṟu for building materials for a film set.

Lots of people enjoy extra rights by birth, but the voice candidate is also going to need association.

The head of Qantas has more power than the voice.

Real power in society rests upon the wealthy and influential. Owners of big media, big employers etc.

The representative from Bunyip plains for the voice isn’t going to change Australia or kick city folk out from houses.

I was reading the New York Times, they are already discussing “ racial tensions” in Australia.

Will a Bitterly Divided Australia Elevate the Voice of Aboriginal People? (Published 2023)

A referendum to set up an Indigenous advisory body in Parliament was envisioned as uniting the country. The opposite has happened.

www.nytimes.com

A lot of prominent indigenous people hate the thing for different reasons. A lot support it too. I don’t know anyone bitter about it.

No rivers of blood in the Panther player catchment, that’s for sure.

Like you, I don’t want people to be labelled and boxed in whatever way they vote.

I would like other questions to go to a referendum and the constitution changed but with accompanying resources to act.

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

Why would people vote against their interests other than guilt?

I’m not the voice is against anyone’s interests is it?

If it’s got no real powers, it’s neutral.

I think people vote against their interests out of ignorance.

Believing that all progressive causes are good or all right wing causes are good is probably ignorant. And that said, it depends on what one thinks is good and desirable.

A properly resourced Bill of Rights in our constitution for all citizens may have a better practical effect for indigenous people than a voice with no actual bite.

Then you live where I live and see ever diminishing native bush land turned into crappy housing with 4 or 5 families living in squalor in the one house…and you get sympathetic for land rights and wonder where development is going to end. Not likely with high immigration, economists forcefully argue, we need to survive. I do not know.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

What political rights has it?

It has no real power to do anything.

Power needs to be bestowed upon its decisions by others including Parliament.

What it does is provide ‘mandate’, in perpetuity. So when voters are voting about jobs or interest rates or health care or crime, a government inclined to white guilt can say they have this other mandate. And then they will divert resources to this one high profile issue instead of the significantly greater resources (and political capital) it would take to look after all disadvantaged people, regardless of race.

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

What it does is provide ‘mandate’, in perpetuity. So when voters are voting about jobs or interest rates or health care or crime, a government inclined to white guilt can say they have this other mandate. And then they will divert resources to this one high profile issue instead of the significantly greater resources (and political capital) it would take to look after all disadvantaged people, regardless of race.

Maybe, but in the theory, the citizenry can vote out “white guilt”

Schools and media are committed to progressive causes. The kids of conservative immigrants are coming home with guilt and values that are foreign to their parents.

I don’t think our two party system will be around by 2100. Politics will be more European.

The voice will be one of many voices.

Eventually, we may become an Islamic republic before moving on to something else.

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

And it might seem counterintuitive, but Australians in 2150 might lead happier lives under a one party Islamic state.

Who knows?

 

[the phantom menace]

Mark Latham's changed parties (and beliefs) so much now, he'd have to be a candidate to lead that party too...

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

Mark Latham's changed parties (and beliefs) so much now, he'd have to be a candidate to lead that party too...

Maybe…

But Mark does a lot of good things he doesn’t get any recognition for because he doesn’t publicise them.

I certainly don’t agree with some of his publicised views and I don’t think many people do.

But People can have many sides to them.

And I think we have to get away from easy dialectics.

We are all kind of creatures of our era. I’ve seen many changes.

The hankering for war from idiots seems to be a constant. Cave people.

The ongoing justification for bombing Japan with nuclear weapons…complete and utter rubbish as is this wasteful proxy war in the Ukraine.

Both parties need to stand down and grow up.

All this woke v right wing stuff is bullshite.

Good and bad in both camps.

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

On a less political note, a good weekend to prepare the cars for summer.

The adding of shades and additional insulation are some measures I’ve found effective previously.

The trick being to ensure the work can be underdone (lol) undone as a trade in beckons in a couple of months. Trade up to another used car as I’m under pressure to buy a small suv. I wouldn’t get one, but there you go.

If anyone has a small suv let me know what you think of your model, if you could be bothered.

@IFR33K is a car genius, he might have some ideas.

On a budget, say $16-$18k drive away.


??!

 

[Twizzle]

people opposing the voice are mostly the same mob who opposed gay marriage

coincidence ?

 

[hindy111]

people opposing the voice are mostly the same mob who opposed gay marriage

coincidence ?

Not at all. Heaps of people have more conservative views and are content and fear change while others think changing things will make things better and see it as moving forward.
Not even sure it matters what the cause is.

 

[Twizzle]

Not even sure it matters what the cause is.

which is why they oppose it, purely on factional grounds

left have a policy so the right will oppose it

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

which is why they oppose it, purely on factional grounds

left have a policy so the right will oppose it

Yes, it’s lazy.

I watched an interview with one of the right wing political operatives in America who helped drive the cultural divide with Bannon.

He said that he deeply regrets the strategy now.

I’ll try to find it again and post it up for the panel.

If I recall correctly, it was initially strategy driven rather than anything fundamentally ideological at least from his viewpoint.

I think Bannon is a nutcase.

 

[strider]

And of course you can say the exact some thing the opposite way .... lol

 

[the phantom menace]

Maybe…

But Mark does a lot of good things he doesn’t get any recognition for because he doesn’t publicise them.

I certainly don’t agree with some of his publicised views and I don’t think many people do.

But People can have many sides to them.

Obviously. But people - particularly politicians - have to be accountable for their publicised actions and views. My comment was a joke referencing how many parties the seemingly unstable Latham has lead and then quit to lead another, and another...

All this woke v right wing stuff is bullshite.

Good and bad in both camps.

Undoubtedly.

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

Obviously. But people - particularly politicians - have to be accountable for their publicised actions and views. My comment was a joke referencing how many parties the seemingly unstable Latham has lead and then quit to lead another, and another...

Undoubtedly.

All good, I should have disclosed that I kind of know Mark and I have found him pretty kind and stable in person. We are not close or anything. But my sisters would agree with you!

One Nation doesn’t do anything for me other than serve as continual source of ridicule and scorn.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

people opposing the voice are mostly the same mob who opposed gay marriage

coincidence ?

I supported gay marriage and I’ll be voting against the voice, because both positions make sense to me. They’re not the same thing at all.

 

[the phantom menace]