Non Footy Chat Thread II

[JokerEel]

We all thought that BAs nepotism was bad Lance Stroll in the F1 is so f**king bad but somehow continues to get a drive for his dad's team...

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

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The presumption in this message is that indigenous people currently don’t have a say in decisions now. Not true.

It also presumes indigenous people know what works in “their community”

Suggesting that it is one singular community. An appeal to separatism and us v them.

Divisive and unnecessary, invitation to scaremongers!

It confines the voice to “matters that are directed towards their community” without properly identifying the community. There are thousands of aboriginal communities all over the country.

Not commenting on the question being asked in the referendum, but this messaging is truly awful. Treats everyone as unthinking idiots.

This bullshit was probably dreamed up by some ad agency in the ACT taking lessons from Budweiser.

It’s going down probably. Not because it’s a bad idea, but because it’s being mismanaged.

 

[the phantom menace]

Agree and have always said the Yes campaign hasn't run the message well.

But at its simplest, the above reflects what the voice is - a representative advisory Committee for relevant issues. No more and no less. It won't fix democracy, but establishing it through a Yes vote will help fix a wrong that shouldn't have been there for all the decades that created the impact that is there for all to see.

I'm convinced that it is only people who - for whatever personal reason or agenda - are uncomfortable with Indigenous people having a representative body with a role to give uniform (albeit majority) advice when requested who will nit pick to try and find fault in voting this simple concept in.

 

[Twizzle]

I supported gay marriage and I’ll be voting against the voice, because both positions make sense to me. They’re not the same thing at all.

agreed, but I never said they were the same thing, people tend to look at life style choices based on which side of politics they are on nowadays, we've become like America

even potato head said if this refeendum doesn't get up he'll bring in his own, so he obviously sees some merit in the referendum but he wont support it if its labour's policy

you'd think if they have common goals they could at least work together on one of them

 

[Gronk]

which is why they oppose it, purely on factional grounds

left have a policy so the right will oppose it

And of course you can say the exact some thing the opposite way .... lol

For example ? What new policies do the LNP have that are being opposed by the left ?

The IPA is a think tank funded by Gina and they hammer home policies to pollies and the Murdoch press and sky by supplying quotes and interviews. To keep the commentary on track.

Essentially they want to undo everything climate change. Undo everything which regulates the workplace including min wage. Undo free speech parameters. Dilute the ABC to childrens programs and docos so they don’t compete with paywalls. Abolish (employer) compulsory superannuation contributions.

So other than nuclear, they are really proposing to undo rather than introduce. Do you have any examples of new policy from the right that the left won’t support ?

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

Agree and have always said the Yes campaign hasn't run the message well.

But at its simplest, the above reflects what the voice is - a representative advisory Committee for relevant issues. No more and no less. It won't fix democracy, but establishing it through a Yes vote will help fix a wrong that shouldn't have been there for all the decades that created the impact that is there for all to see.

I'm convinced that it is only people who - for whatever personal reason or agenda - are uncomfortable with Indigenous people having a representative body with a role to give uniform (albeit majority) advice when requested who will nit pick to try and find fault in voting this simple concept in.

What are the relevant issues?

Real power comes through the provision of resources, if we are placing our trust in this body, if they know what works and we are serious, why not provide them with resources to get their plans through?

Fault finding is inevitable regardless of proposal.

More broadly speaking, i think it will fail and then it’s binned for years. The government can’t admit they muffed it, Dutton will claim a victory.

Some of the celebrities against it, truly awful people, I agree.

An excuse should be found to delay it. The time used to work out what it’s supposed to do, what real powers it could be given, how it is supposed to be constituted.

And how it could be adopted and embraced by the rest of Australia, instead of reliance on Budweiser ad agency policy.

There’s not enough wokey votes.

More people would vote for cheap power, lower interest rates, smashing the greedy banks and ripping the petrol conglomerates a new one. And i think a lot of these silent majority types of policies would help indigenous people much more than the voice.

We don’t even have a bill of rights like the US.

 

[JokerEel]

What a waste of time and money this Voice campaign is.. All just so these idiot politicians can feel all nice and fuzzy...

 

[the phantom menace]

For example ? What new policies do the LNP have that are being opposed by the left ?

We know the LNP don't come up with policy - the last one they came up with was Johnny Howard's gun laws... and even that was a forced reaction to Port Arthur.

 

[the phantom menace]

What are the relevant issues?

This should cover it for you: https://www.niaa.gov.au/news-centre/indigenous-affairs/commonwealth-closing-gap-annual-report-2022

Real power comes through the provision of resources, if we are placing our trust in this body, if they know what works and we are serious, why not provide them with resources to get their plans through?

Because it's an advisory committee, not a body that is responsible for plans and their implementation. The resources are (and should be) budgeted by the government of the day to identified initiatives carried out by a range of responsible entities - health, education, employment etc - not to the Voice committee.

We don’t even have a bill of rights like the US.

That's why there was the grass roots decision through the Uluru Statement - brought to the previous government when they were in power - to start with recognition and this Voice advisory committee. It's a small simple harmless step, and one every reasonable person should be voting Yes to imo, so the country can get on with it.

 

[Noise]

This should cover it for you: https://www.niaa.gov.au/news-centre/indigenous-affairs/commonwealth-closing-gap-annual-report-2022

Because it's an advisory committee, not a body that is responsible for plans and their implementation. The resources are (and should be) budgeted by the government of the day to identified initiatives carried out by a range of responsible entities - health, education, employment etc - not to the Voice committee.

That's why there was the grass roots decision through the Uluru Statement - brought to the previous government when they were in power - to start with recognition and this Voice advisory committee. It's a small simple harmless step, and one every reasonable person should be voting Yes to imo, so the country can get on with it.

I read bits and pieces of that uluru statement this week. If the Yes vote gets up, is the plan to implement all those things in the 2017 uluru statement?

 

[Gronk]

What a waste of time and money this Voice campaign is.. All just so these idiot politicians can feel all nice and fuzzy...

So as a citizen, you don’t think it’s the right thing do do ?

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

So as a citizen, you don’t think it’s the right thing do do ?

No one under 55 probably knows who this guy is.

Albo swaying and clapping out of time to Blue Sky Mine.

It’s a shocker of a campaign.

@Poupou Escobars conservative immigrants are going to eat these guilty hippies for breakfast.

Translate the voice propaganda to arabic and play it on that radio allah channel during a break in prayers.

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

This should cover it for you: https://www.niaa.gov.au/news-centre/indigenous-affairs/commonwealth-closing-gap-annual-report-2022

Because it's an advisory committee, not a body that is responsible for plans and their implementation. The resources are (and should be) budgeted by the government of the day to identified initiatives carried out by a range of responsible entities - health, education, employment etc - not to the Voice committee.

That's why there was the grass roots decision through the Uluru Statement - brought to the previous government when they were in power - to start with recognition and this Voice advisory committee. It's a small simple harmless step, and one every reasonable person should be voting Yes to imo, so the country can get on with it.

If we’ve f**ked up the indigenous people for 250 years or whatever then maybe we should be cutting them cheques and giving them genuine powers. Real choices, a real say.

Because where the voice makes decisions and the government is supposed to implement it, if the government don’t like it, they will f**k it up for sure. Roll the old arm over.

Ffs, we aren’t even an independent country. We couldn’t even get that one right.

The king might not agree with the voice, has anyone bothered to ask Charlie?

If we want to close the gap, we should tax the f**k out of very rich people and give their wealth to the poor regardless of race and all that. That’s what FDR did, it’s nothing new.

 

[the phantom menace]

I read bits and pieces of that uluru statement this week. If the Yes vote gets up, is the plan to implement all those things in the 2017 uluru statement?

No. If the Yes vote gets up, the plan is to implement the Voice.

 

[the phantom menace]

Because where the voice makes decisions and the government is supposed to implement it, if the government don’t like it, they will f**k it up for sure. Roll the old arm over.

The Voice doesn't make decisions. It's an advisory body whose advice can be requested by government. I'd suggest you read up a bit more before you decide your vote.

Ffs, we aren’t even an independent country. We couldn’t even get that one right.

The king might not agree with the voice, has anyone bothered to ask Charlie?

If we want to close the gap, we should tax the f**k out of very rich people and give their wealth to the poor regardless of race and all that. That’s what FDR did, it’s nothing new.

Well I'd agree with that socialism... but not many people would. Definitely not the rich powerful ones - many of which (including rich global corporations) are based overseas and immune to our taxes.

So let's just vote Yes for constitutional recognition of our first peoples and the advisory Voice, and then worry about bigger more complex issues separately down the track?

 

[JokerEel]

So as a citizen, you don’t think it’s the right thing do do ?

Right thing to do? What's right about it?

Its not going to do shit for society it's a waste of time and money.

 

[Happy MEel]

The Voice doesn't make decisions. It's an advisory body whose advice can be requested by government. I'd suggest you read up a bit more before you decide your vote.

Well I'd agree with that socialism... but not many people would. Definitely not the rich powerful ones - many of which (including rich global corporations) are based overseas and immune to our taxes.

So let's just vote Yes for constitutional recognition of our first peoples and the advisory Voice, and then worry about bigger more complex issues separately down the track?

I think the Yes campaign made a mistake in combining recognition in the constitution and this advisory committee. I think the two are separate issues and would have had a greater chance of success if it was a referendum to specifically recognise Aboriginal and Torres Strair Islanders as our First Nations people in the constitution. The Government can then just set up whatever Advisory Committees they see fit.

 

[Incorrect]

No. If the Yes vote gets up, the plan is to implement the Voice.

Will Delta Goodrem get a gig? Hasn't been as good since she gave up her seat.... of course it's good having first nations reps like Jessica Mauboy, Rita Ora and Boy George on there though....

 

[the phantom menace]

I think the Yes campaign made a mistake in combining recognition in the constitution and this advisory committee. I think the two are separate issues and would have had a greater chance of success if it was a referendum to specifically recognise Aboriginal and Torres Strair Islanders as our First Nations people in the constitution. The Government can then just set up whatever Advisory Committees they see fit.

That statement and point of view is entirely true, and I agree that's how I would have approached it.

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

The Voice doesn't make decisions. It's an advisory body whose advice can be requested by government. I'd suggest you read up a bit more before you decide your vote.

Well I'd agree with that socialism... but not many people would. Definitely not the rich powerful ones - many of which (including rich global corporations) are based overseas and immune to our taxes.

So let's just vote Yes for constitutional recognition of our first peoples and the advisory Voice, and then worry about bigger more complex issues separately down the track?

Not socialism, just a fair go.

Not interested in overseas corps who don’t pay tax. They can go.

We are happy to give overseas companies tax breaks but “pat the indigenous people on the head” and tell them to suck it up with no actual power.

“ you’ve had your say, too bad, Utah Coal is going to start mining your sacred lands tomorrow.”

“ But…”

“ Nah, it’s all fair, you’ve had your say”

It’s not sounding in line with the propaganda.