Non Footy Chat Thread II

[Kornstar]

Lol. You really don't like people challenging your world view do you? You get awfully snarky.

The US occupy Iraq and have been meddling in the Middle East since the 70s. How is that any different? And how is the fact that IS openly state they want to establish a caliphate NOT political motivation?

Haha, same could be said for you to be honest.

I get snarky when people like yourself act like you know everything because you have degrees and parade yourself on an Internet forum like you are superior. You pretty much do this in every thread.

Educating us that it is not religiously motivated like we are all so stupid to understand what's actually happening.

"A caliphate is an Islamic state. It's led by a caliph, who is a political and religious leader who is a successor (caliph) to the Islamic prophet Muhammad. His power and authority is absolute."

I'm not really arguing the political side of it, you are the one arguing that it is not religiously motivated. Why can it not be both? Considering the caliph is a successor to a prophet, sounds religious to me.

 

[phantom eel]

I get snarky when people like yourself act like you know everything because you have degrees and parade yourself on an Internet forum like you are superior.

FFS. Doesn't take a degree to do an internet search and read up on these things.

There is no threat that they wan't to convert the western world to Islam (or their version of it). To think that they do want to "convert us" is simply playing into a fearful conspiracy theory. These isolated random acts in western countries have nothing to do with Muslims in general, or migration to our country.

It's all about a land grab within the middle east. Their version of the religion most prominent in the middle east is a small part of that - only in so far as there is no nation state that has adopted their extreme take on Islam, and "they" are therefore stateless (and hence feel they need to establish a "caliphate", otherwise they have no legitimacy). Let's take the headquarters of the caliphate out - I'm sure there's lots of Muslims in the surrounding countries (and the western world) who would agree we are better rid of IS.

 

[phantom eel]

That trust will begin to happen when people in their families/communities start reporting on those that have been / are being radicalised. There is no way that the families don't have any idea it is happening.

Hmm, so if we can't blame muslims in general, then it's the family member's of the disenfranchised nutters fault now?

Hands up here whose family members are aware of their internet browsing history? Any takers? Sure, it's the family's fault for not dobbing them in...

 

[Noise]

Hmm, so if we can't blame muslims in general, then it's the family member's of the disenfranchised nutters fault now?

Hands up here whose family members are aware of their internet browsing history? Any takers? Sure, it's the family's fault for not dobbing them in...

I never said it was their fault. I said they can certainly help.

 

[phantom eel]

This is certainly worth a try but what if that doesn't work? What then? I'm pretty much at the point of trying anything and some of the suggestions raised may be worth a try as well.

What do you mean "if that doesn't work"? If we take out IS headquarters in that one town, we've taken out the IS hierarchy - job done, the IS "organisation" collapses, just like the Al Qaeda "oprganisation".

Disenfranchised nutters have been doing individual acts of distruction on their own for centuries - Hilton bombing, Wollies bomber, Lindt Cafe etc - that shit will never stop. And to be honest we won't be able to stop the next lunatic extremist faction from trying to target disenfranchised nutters to do their attention-grabbing acts of terror in the west, at least not before they've started.

But to worry that these act are about Islam the religion in general, or about migration in Australia, or that something we choose do mightn't work, is just playing into the fear terrorists try to create. Just keep on living life - there's more risk of getting killed in a car accident.

 

[phantom eel]

I never said it was their fault. I said they can certainly help.

Can they certainly though? Do any of your family members know your browsing history? Could they help if there was something to help about (even gambling additcion, porn addition)? Or would they be none the wiser too...

 

[Noise]

Can they certainly though? Do any of your family members know your browsing history? Could they help if there was something to help about (even gambling additcion, porn addition)? Or would they be none the wiser too...

Yea they probably do. I only frequent about 5 footy sites and 10 surfing / weather forecasting sites and leave my computer on a lot of the time. Also, if I was going missing, visiting random people/places and seemed generally unhappy with the world they would know something is up and get to the bottom of it.

 

[Bazal]

Haha, same could be said for you to be honest.

I get snarky when people like yourself act like you know everything because you have degrees and parade yourself on an Internet forum like you are superior. You pretty much do this in every thread.

Haha what? Righto mate, whatever you reckon. Obviously my degree in marine biology is what I'm using. Or maybe the journalism one. That must be it, right? It's nothing to do with living in Islamic countries and having plenty of Islamic people in my life to discuss it with, it's the degree that I'm somehow shoving down your throat.

Do you realise how utterly ridiculous that sounds?

Educating us that it is not religiously motivated like we are all so stupid to understand what's actually happening.

Again, what?? So suggesting that the real issue is masked by a deliberate campaign to incite racist and islamophobic emotions is someone implying you're stupid? What total nonsense. I think you just don't like facing a slightly ugly reality that you've fallen for the spin. Which is entirely not your fault because no one actually reports anything about the reason IS exists. It's nothing to do with "superiority" mate. I spent over a month in a mental ward last year, I am the absolute last person on earth who thinks they're better than anyone....

"A caliphate is an Islamic state. It's led by a caliph, who is a political and religious leader who is a successor (caliph) to the Islamic prophet Muhammad. His power and authority is absolute."

I'm not really arguing the political side of it, you are the one arguing that it is not religiously motivated. Why can it not be both? Considering the caliph is a successor to a prophet, sounds religious to me.

A caliph is a dictator. Pure and simple. He uses religion as a weapon to oppress his subjects. IS want the power, so they use religion to get it. Do you see what I'm saying?[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[phantom eel]

Good for you. Do you think someone who is disenfranchised might be likely to be a little more secretive about their dealings and visitings, maybe keeping them from their family? Or are we assuming that certain (muslim?) families aid and abet every extremist nong who gets sucked into something dodgy via the 'net...

 

[Bazal]

Yea they probably do. I only frequent about 5 footy sites and 10 surfing / weather forecasting sites and leave my computer on a lot of the time. Also, if I was going missing, visiting random people/places and seemed generally unhappy with the world they would know something is up and get to the bottom of it.

Well the issue with that is no other person on earth lives your life.

A lot of these people are loners, or kids of families that work so hard they barely see each other. A lot of people see a moody teen or young adult and think it's pretty normal (and for a lot of people it is). Most teens kick back against their parents at some stage. How do you tell normal teen angst from radicalised behaviour?

Would you dob in a family member knowing they're probably going to go away for a long time?

 

[Noise]

Good for you.

You asked a question and I answered it.

Do you think someone who is disenfranchised might be likely to be a little more secretive about their dealings and visitings, maybe keeping them from their family? Or are we assuming that certain (muslim?) families aid and abet every extremist nong who gets sucked into something dodgy via the 'net

Of course they would be secretive/cagey. They are probably angry too. All families, no matter the religion, should try to reach out if a young person is not happy. And get help for them. Suicide rates are through the roof. Young people need support.

I'm not saying they are aiding and abetting. That would be a criminal matter. I'm talking about turning a blind eye which I believe happens in some cases, whether it's family or friends.

 

[Noise]

Would you dob in a family member knowing they're probably going to go away for a long time?

If they stole some milk, no. If they were going to blow shit up and kill a bunch of people, yes.

 

[Bazal]

If they stole some milk, no. If they were going to blow shit up and kill a bunch of people, yes.

So if you find plans to do so, then you would. And I think a lot of people would.

But what if you just think they're being a bit moody? What if they're just being distant, or angry? What then? Are you dobbing a family member in just because their behaviour changes?

 

[Noise]

So if you find plans to do so, then you would. And I think a lot of people would.

But what if you just think they're being a bit moody? What if they're just being distant, or angry? What then? Are you dobbing a family member in just because their behaviour changes?

You asked if I would dob in a family member knowing they would go away for a long time? I said yes if they were going to cause chaos, not if their behaviour chagnged. Of course I wouldn't dob them in for being angry. Being angry is not a crime. But if they were being angry/unhappy/their behaviour changed I would certainly get to the bottom of what was going on. If I found out they were linked to terrorism I would much rather report them than have them blow themselves up and kill a bunch of people.

 

[phantom eel]

You asked a question and I answered it.

Of course they would be secretive/cagey. They are probably angry too. All families, no matter the religion, should try to reach out if a young person is not happy. And get help for them. Suicide rates are through the roof. Young people need support.

I'm not saying they are aiding and abetting. That would be a criminal matter. I'm talking about turning a blind eye which I believe happens in some cases, whether it's family or friends.

Ok, I think you mean well with your suggestion of families being more connected with their young adult/disenfracnhised relatives, generally and not just muslims.

I just think it's tricky, because familes already do try just that, and often it isn't enough to avoid suicide, recklessness, acts of extremism, joining the RBB or other disreputable organisations. We need to take out the source where people are being recruited to dangerous causes via the internet.

 

[Bazal]

You asked if I would dob in a family member knowing they would go away for a long time? I said yes if they were going to cause chaos, not if their behaviour chagnged. Of course I wouldn't dob them in for being angry. Being angry is not a crime.

Well then you would be in the same boat as most of these families, because they never see a big red folder with TERRORIST ATTACK PLANS MURDER DEATH KILL written on the front....

 

[Avenger]

Stuff like this only contributes to the divide. You dont know what he thinks. What are you trying to achieve other than to drive a wedge ? Don't you realize that this is exactly what the extremists want ?

You are so painfully naive. You remind me of those aid workers who go over there and try and help only to be later beheaded on tv.

 

[Avenger]

Here is exactly what IS want. They want these random killings to fracture our society. They want the billion peaceful muslims to be persecuted through unnecessary paranoia and have no alternative but to fight for their right of religious freedom. Ironically a freedom that we insist upon and enjoy.

Did Waleed tell you that? Waleed also believes in a false prophet that married and later raped a 9 year old girl. Don't you realise these merkins reckon that after they defeat us in Syria they will take over Rome where the ped returns on a golden horse ?

We must crush them.

 

[phantom eel]

Hmm, bigoted much Av? Attacking Waleed because of your version of what you think he believes is a little intellectually cowardly, don't you think?

Let he whose imaginary friend is without sin cast the first stone...

 

[Noise]

Ok, I think you mean well with your suggestion of families being more connected with their young adult/disenfracnhised relatives, generally and not just muslims.

I just think it's tricky, because familes already do try just that, and often it isn't enough to avoid suicide, recklessness, acts of extremism, joining the RBB or other disreputable organisations. We need to take out the source where people are being recruited to dangerous causes via the internet.

100% agree with that too. Only issue is if you take out the source (whoever/wherever that is) there is very high chance a new group will arise.