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NRL backs clubs in fight against pokies reform / supports exploitation of vulnerable

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,365
RL clubs should not be allowed to profit from people like that IMO

People who say "too bad it's their own fault" have more than likely never known an addict of any kind and how easily it can destroy lives and not just the addict either but those around them suffer the most.

A lot of ignorant comments in this thread
Why not?
Its a legal activity.
Burger King profits from fat slobs that eat dbl whoppers for brekkie and then die from diabetes and obesity and their family all go "ooooh how sad''

Better a international conglomerate or a group of clubs that put money back into the community, especially kids sport.
 

Mader45

Juniors
Messages
664
I don't understand people defending an industry that is so inept and lazy the only reason it still exists is because they stumbled across a golden goose.

These social clubs give as much of a $hit about you personally as a booze supplying gambling den Catholic club gives a $hit about the word of the bible.

You think if the government removed the regulations about minimal donations to community groups most clubs wouldn't horde that cash for themselves nowadays?

Yes, people nowadays definitely have a knack for blaming everyone under the sun for their woes.

But defending an inherently greedy industry who research and develop methods to abuse human frailties only for monetary benefit shouldn't be about restricting personal choice. It should be about good values being upheld in our community.
 

Ice Ice Brady

Juniors
Messages
2,470
Yeah....much like toddling off to the nearest GA meeting.

Junkies have been addicted to illegal substances for decades, govt intervention wont help your friend, just penalises others.
Your friend must help herself.
There are avenues available.

You can't compare this to making drugs illegal.

This is not making gambling or pokies illegal. But is minimising harm.

Just like you need a prescription to get some drugs. Ask yourself why you need a prescription to get Valium.

Surely you can't be that dumb

FFS I'm sick of people not taking responsibility for their own actions

Look up the psychology and chemistry of addiction and particularly gambling/poker machine addiction.

Then get back to me about taking responsibility.

As the majority have said, if people are inclined to piss away their money they will find a way. Sad but true that some do need to be protected from themselves. Humanity, a bunch of losers sometimes. Such is life.

They don't do this because they have money to spend. They do this because pokies environments are designed to get people hooked. Whether it be for 20 minutes or for years.

Why do you think there are all those sounds and visual effects?

Exactly. I'm somebody who enjoys having a few bucks in the pokies when I go to the club and to be frank I consider it an insult to my inelegance that I’d be treated like a problem gambler. Problem with problem gamblers or people with any kind of addiction are they can never be treated until they admit they have a problem.

I’ve signed the beer coater petition. As I’ve said before too if I want to live in a Nanny State I’ll go live in Singapore.

How do people realise they have a problem? A lot will live in denial because they don't realise what is going on until it is too late.

Precommitment technology is a way of GETTING THEM TO ADMIT THEY HAVE A PROBLEM.

So using your logic, you should support these reforms.

RL clubs should not be allowed to profit from people like that IMO

People who say "too bad it's their own fault" have more than likely never known an addict of any kind and how easily it can destroy lives and not just the addict either but those around them suffer the most.

A lot of ignorant comments in this thread

Exactly.

Better a international conglomerate or a group of clubs that put money back into the community, especially kids sport.

There is absolutely no relationship between children sports involvement and pokies revenue. See an earlier post.

Of course someone of your low level of intelligence would ignore the evidence.
 

Ice Ice Brady

Juniors
Messages
2,470
I don't understand people defending an industry that is so inept and lazy the only reason it still exists is because they stumbled across a golden goose.

These social clubs give as much of a $hit about you personally as a booze supplying gambling den Catholic club gives a $hit about the word of the bible.

You think if the government removed the regulations about minimal donations to community groups most clubs wouldn't horde that cash for themselves nowadays?

Yes, people nowadays definitely have a knack for blaming everyone under the sun for their woes.

But defending an inherently greedy industry who research and develop methods to abuse human frailties only for monetary benefit shouldn't be about restricting personal choice. It should be about good values being upheld in our community.

:clap:

We have a winner. Couldn't have put it better myself.
 

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,365
Wow theres a rational argument calling someone stupid.
Well done.
Your mums an addict, its not my problem....but you want it to be?
Tell her to help her fkn self. Take some fkn responsibility
 
Messages
33,280
Why not?
Its a legal activity.
Burger King profits from fat slobs that eat dbl whoppers for brekkie and then die from diabetes and obesity and their family all go "ooooh how sad''

Better a international conglomerate or a group of clubs that put money back into the community, especially kids sport.
Profiting from something that destroys lives is just immoral. Why do you think tobacco companies were punted from sport?
 

Ice Ice Brady

Juniors
Messages
2,470
You ignored the evidence. Which is something that someone of low intelligence would do. Does that make you stupid? Yes.

There is no correlation between pokies revenues for clubs and the amount of kids playing sport. In fact in WA, where there are no pokies, there is a higher proportion of kids playing sport.

Keep ignoring that.

And keep ignoring the realities of pokies addiction. That it is just as physically addictive as some drugs.
 

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,365
Profiting from something that destroys lives is just immoral. Why do you think tobacco companies were punted from sport?
Ive played them quite happily...hasnt destroyed my life.

Yet another instance of the majority having to kowtow to the weak pathetic minority.


You ignored the evidence. Which is something that someone of low intelligence would do. Does that make you stupid? Yes.

There is no correlation between pokies revenues for clubs and the amount of kids playing sport. In fact in WA, where there are no pokies, there is a higher proportion of kids playing sport.

Keep ignoring that.

And keep ignoring the realities of pokies addiction. That it is just as physically addictive as some drugs.
Not interested in your charts.
Pretty stupid of you to suggest im ignoring the addictiveness of gambling to some, Im aware of that and didnt state otherwise anywhere.
There are options to help those.
Only those that need help, me and many like me dont need to be drawn into this when we can gamble responsibly
 
Last edited:

Alex28

Coach
Messages
11,876
people have a choice.

If they choose to piss away their dole cheques through the pokies that is there fault.

They have the power to change that, and there are mechanisms in place to change that.

Noone forces them to go to the club, noone forces them to put their money in the poker machine...

To say they are vulnerable is just stupid.

Also, if you take away poker machines from clubs (which actually give some pack to the community) the alternative is they go to a pub - owned by individuals or companies - where they gamble that same cash and the community sees nothing.
 
Messages
33,280
Ive played them quite happily...hasnt destroyed my life.

Yet another instance of the majority having to kowtow to the weak pathetic minority.

Lol you're acting like a homotional bitch over having to possibly register to play the pokies when you say you rarely play them anyway.

"There is this old bogan on LU who plays pokies every 6 months and he is fine so scrap the tax and ignore the problem."

GTFO the world doesn't revolve around you
 

Ice Ice Brady

Juniors
Messages
2,470
Ive played them quite happily...hasnt destroyed my life.

Yet another instance of the majority having to kowtow to the weak pathetic minority.



Not interested in your charts.
Pretty stupid of you to suggest im ignoring the addictiveness of gambling to some, Im aware of that and didnt state otherwise anywhere.
There are options to help those.
Only those that need help, me and many like me dont need to be drawn into this when we can gamble responsibly

Very few. And not if they won't admit to a problem. How much do you know about pokies and pokie/gambling addiction?

Please let me know when you fill out your first precommitment form so I can be there to take a photo. And make sure your handwriting is up to scratch.
 

Ice Ice Brady

Juniors
Messages
2,470
Also, if you take away poker machines from clubs (which actually give some pack to the community) the alternative is they go to a pub - owned by individuals or companies - where they gamble that same cash and the community sees nothing.

Another one with no clue.

No one is taking away pokies from clubs. But the kind of people that would change venue so they could play the pokies is someone who is very likely going to have a problem that they can't control. But you are okay with that because the money is apparently going to the community.

So you're happy for lives to be destroyed so clubs can donate jerseys to the local footy team so they don't have to pay tax.

It's hard to keep track of the argument of clubs and hotels. Is it that it will cost so much money to put the technology on the machines or that they will lose income?

This reform is about putting technology on each machine in the country that makes it mandatory for someone to enter in how much they are willing to lose before they can use it. It makes people aware of what they are spending and also stop people from spending what they can't afford (eg money for rent, bills, mortgage etc.)

And also, see an earlier post. There is no relationship between pokies revenue and kids involvement with sport. That argument used by the NRL is false and misleading.
 

bottle

Coach
Messages
14,126
Well I don't play the things at all so I have no vested interest. As someone has already mentioned it has to be blanket, including pubs, or the wealth just gets pushed increasingly across to private interests.
But what happens when those with the problem take their habit to the TAB, or the track, or the casino, or a private or illicit card game? Or spend their money on booze and cigarettes. What control measures get put in place then? Do we ban all this stuff?
There are far more damaging things happening in society that money and resources could be focussed on. By all means identify and help those that need it, but I don't see this as a solution.
As I say, won't affect me, but I don't see it as a resolution.
 

Mader45

Juniors
Messages
664
There is no proper resolution that will fix alot of societies problems. You could always ban all vices outside of the family home. If you could only drink, smoke, toke, shoot up, gamble, watch adult porn, get escorts, eat junk food etc at home but in society had to maintain a respectable and moralistic image it would respect the freedom of the individual and maintain the upkeep of society. Would destroy alot of jobs and industry, but what type of industry will be affected apart from the ones that leech off our weaknesses. That way if an idiot abuses these rights we all think we should have, they only mess it up in their environment. :eek:
 

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,365
Lol you're acting like a homotional bitch over having to possibly register to play the pokies when you say you rarely play them anyway.

"There is this old bogan on LU who plays pokies every 6 months and he is fine so scrap the tax and ignore the problem."

GTFO the world doesn't revolve around you
Yeh, it revolves around the weak minority....
 

mickdo

Coach
Messages
17,355
Well I don't play the things at all so I have no vested interest. As someone has already mentioned it has to be blanket, including pubs, or the wealth just gets pushed increasingly across to private interests.
But what happens when those with the problem take their habit to the TAB, or the track, or the casino, or a private or illicit card game? Or spend their money on booze and cigarettes. What control measures get put in place then? Do we ban all this stuff?
There are far more damaging things happening in society that money and resources could be focussed on. By all means identify and help those that need it, but I don't see this as a solution.
As I say, won't affect me, but I don't see it as a resolution.

Studies have shown that pokies are more addictive than the track and other forms of gambling. And as for booze and cigarettes, there are already high taxes on ciggies and laws on responsible drinking for exactly that reason.
 

Ice Ice Brady

Juniors
Messages
2,470
But Senator Xenophon says many machines already have the capability, and it will only cost $1,000 for those machines that do not have the technology.

And up to $600 for others.

That means, according to the "$3 billion" estimate, there are 3 million pokies in NRL connected clubs. :lol:

And then they say it would cost clubs $1 billion - $2 billion. ClubsNSW and the NRL should make up their mind.

"Last year, clubs ran 1,130 junior rugby league clubs, and donated $40 million to help fund the purchase of football jumpers, shorts, socks, trophies, insurance, medical kits, referee outfits and ground development," he said.

1.5% of revenue donated to the community. Definitely worth it.

"It's a bit rich for the NRL to be lecturing people about gambling issues when they haven't got their own house in order when it comes to gambling scandals," he said.

LOL
 

Spanner in the works

First Grade
Messages
6,073
Since the article got deleted for having no link, this is for those who have no idea what is being referred to.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/07/03/3259745.htm?section=justin
Xenophon, Wilkie slam NRL over pokies fight
Updated 18 minutes ago

Independent MPs Nick Xenophon and Andrew Wilkie have lashed out at the National Rugby League for its new advertising campaign denouncing the Federal Government's proposed poker machine reforms.

The NRL has joined the campaign against the proposal to force punters to register and set daily betting limits.

An advertisement attacking the changes and featuring league great Steve Mortimer will be broadcast at football games for the rest of the season.

The NRL says clubs will have to spend $3 billion on technology to update machines that force punters to register and set daily betting limits. It says it will cost each club $100,000 per poker machine to install new technology.

But Senator Xenophon says many machines already have the capability, and it will only cost $1,000 for those machines that do not have the technology.

"If you want to play a high loss machine, where you can lose thousands of dollars an hour, then you'll need to sign up for pre-mandatory commitment," he said.

"But for the overwhelming majority of those that play poker machines, people don't put more than a dollar per spin, it won't affect them by having a low intensity machine where the losses are much lower than current machines.

Senator Xenophon says the NRL's advertising campaign is based on lies.

"It's a bit rich for the NRL to be lecturing people about gambling issues when they haven't got their own house in order when it comes to gambling scandals," he said.

"The NRL should get their own house in order before they start lecturing the rest of us about what should be done about gambling policy."

And Independent MP Andrew Wilkie, who designed the reforms, says the NRL has shown a disappointing lack of leadership in its decision to join the campaign against the reforms.

He insists it is only clubs with a lot of problem gamblers who will be hurt.

"Who could possibly argue that it's OK to continue relying on the cash from problem gamblers," he said.

But the NRL says the survival of many of its football clubs are threatened by the Government's proposed poker machine reforms.

NRL chief David Gallop says clubs play a vital role in attracting kids to rugby league.

"Last year, clubs ran 1,130 junior rugby league clubs, and donated $40 million to help fund the purchase of football jumpers, shorts, socks, trophies, insurance, medical kits, referee outfits and ground development," he said.

"There are any number of gambling options in the community but none which contribute to the community in the way that the clubs movement does.

"Our concern is that these measures will not prevent problem gambling but that it will severely damage rugby league and other community sports."

Clubs Australia president Peter Newell says the reforms cost too much to implement and would devastate clubs.

"To the best of my knowledge, league clubs would lose anywhere between $1 and $2 billion if this were to go ahead," he said.

"In any case it's not sustainable from a revenue point of view or from a capital point of view."

In return for his support on the floor of Parliament, Mr Wilkie won the Government's backing for the introduction of mandatory pre-commitment technology for all gamblers playing the pokies in clubs, pubs and casinos.

But Clubs Australia declared "open warfare" on the Government, saying the changes will cost jobs.
Can't say I disagree with Xenophon and Wilkie. They bring up some very good points.
 

supera

Juniors
Messages
274
this is disgusting from the NRL.

as the OP says, this is more about the shitty financial models of NRL clubs.

no, they don't force people to gamble. but addiction does. and everything about pokies, the lights, sound lighting etc are all designed to make people gamble more.

the 40% loss that the industry is whinging about? this comes down to figures that suggest 40% of money collected from pokies is from problem gamblers.

that's kids without food, shoes or school books.

worth noting that it is already illegal for clubs and pubs to collect this money. these measures are only being implemented because the pubs and clubs refuse to regulate themselves.

NRL - I'm already a member of the raiders. but I won't be spending any more money at games this season.

this is disgusting. I'll be writing letters to Gallop and Furner tomorrow. I hope others will take similar action.
 
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