NRL Expansion. Ideas and opinions.

[mongoose]

Should persevere Gold Coast.

yep, if the NRL can't make the Titans work on the GC then they should just give up. Perth and NZ 2 is going to be a whole lot harder than the frikkin gold coast.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I want the St George Dragons back. I want Manly to still be in the NRL. I don't believe in relocation, so no West Coast Tigers or Adulaide Sharks.

Would you support the NRL including teams in Perth and Adelaide in the future?

What would you do with Illawarra in your scenario?

 

[The Great Dane]

I've said it for a long time. The most feasible next 2 additions to the NRL, for me, are Perth and a 2nd NZ team (based on the South Island).

There're no teams in NZ that are publicly bidding for a license, so unless one comes out of the woodwork late in the game or the NRL is going to run the club in house, it's pretty unlikely that NZ will be an option.

Then, after x years, I'd look at the Central Coast and another Brisbane team. Although I'd relocated the Titans to Brisbane before I'd make a new Brisbane team. South Queensland Titans?

Nobody in Brisbane is going to support the GC's sloppy seconds, especially when competition like the Broncos is literally around the corner, and the NRL can't allow the Titans to fail while the Suns are still kicking.

 

[The Great Dane]

I want the St George Dragons back. I want Manly to still be in the NRL. I don't believe in relocation, so no West Coast Tigers or Adulaide Sharks.

I choose not to believe in the snake in the grass, doesn't change the fact that if I wander to close he'll bite a chunk out of my leg.

Personally I don't support relocation for the NRL, but that doesn't change the fact that when done right relocation can work very well.

And at the end of the day would you prefer that Manly and the Dragons relocate or that they are simply kicked out of the NRL altogether, because that is where we are headed.

 

[siv]

Would you support the NRL including teams in Perth and Adelaide in the future?

What would you do with Illawarra in your scenario?

Easts to play 6 games in Adelaide
Cronulla to play 6 games in Perth

Dragons play 9 games in the Gong

 

[The Great Dane]

Easts to play 6 games in Adelaide
Cronulla to play 6 games in Perth

Dragons play 9 games in the Gong

Unless there're plans to place a team in each city that'll achieve nothing long term.

 

[Perth Red]

Easts to play 6 games in Adelaide
Cronulla to play 6 games in Perth

Dragons play 9 games in the Gong

no-ones supporting half a club lol

gong can’t support a $30million a year nrl club, they have no money or corporates and fanbase is no bigger than in st George area.

 

[flippikat]

We should aim to relocate 2 Sydney teams to Perth ASAP. Perth is the size of Brisbane and we don’t won’t to make the mistake that has been made with Brisbane, auckland and Melbourne by just having 1 team. Getting new teams into those cities is going to be difficult.

Two teams in Perth is a desirable *long term* goal - but we ain't there yet. One is fine for now.

Ultimately, if we have 2 teams in WA and 2 teams in NZ, we can have an early timeslot and a late timeslot *every* weekend. That's great for TV. We would also have derbies in WA & NZ.

But before that, we need Perth, Adelaide & Brisbane 2.

 

[mistertaylor]

Why the obsession with a team in Adelaide? There are probably 3 or 4 expansion areas ahead of it, not including existing areas under-represented at NRL level (namely, SEQ)

 

[The Great Dane]

Why the obsession with a team in Adelaide? There are probably 3 or 4 expansion areas ahead of it, not including existing areas under-represented at NRL level (namely, SEQ)

Because Adelaide is a capital city, and SA is one of the key markets in Australia.

Both those factors make it a very valuable market to have a presence in not only for the NRL but for broadcasters and advertisers. Not having teams in Adelaide and Perth would be one of the main reasons why many big name sponsors overlook the NRL to support comps with a national reach like the NBL instead.

Also, realistically there're maybe 3 expansion areas ahead of Adelaide; Brisbane, Perth, and NZ.
In saying that though you could make reasonable arguments that Adelaide is more valuable to the NRL then Brisbane 2 and NZ 2 long term, because even if Brisbane is underrepresented at least it has some representation, and Adelaide/SA is more valuable than any of the cities in NZ individually except Auckland which is already represented in the NRL anyway.

So though for reasons I've never understood a ton of people in RL circles are harsh on Adelaide, if the NRL is ever going to truly have national reach and meet it's full potential, it needs representation in Adelaide.

 

[The Great Dane]

no-ones supporting half a club lol

gong can’t support a $30million a year nrl club, they have no money or corporates and fanbase is no bigger than in st George area.

I don't know about that. With the right backing just about anywhere could support a club at least for a while.

It's more likely then not that they'd struggle though.

 

[mistertaylor]

Thanks Great Dane, appreciate the response. Still not sold on ADL as an expansion city though. It would take about 5-7 years for an ADL team to be a consistent finals contender, and if you look at other codes in AU, expansion teams need instant success to encourage supporters to jump on the bandwagon. The conception of Melbourne Storm and the immediate success they enjoyed and have cultivated over the last 2 decades, is something that I don't think will be repeated by another RL team in a non-heartland area. Perth at least has done a lot of work with the NRL to bring club and rep fixtures to Perth on a regular basis, so of all the non-heartland areas to expand into, I'd expect them to get the nod over ADL and NZ2.

IMO, Brisbane 2 is a must for expansion (on the proviso that it's not a plastic soulless team like Brisbane Bombers - it has to be an existing entity like Redcliffe, Brothers or Ipswich for mine). They all bring to the table an existing supporter base, a game at Suncorp Stadium every weekend, and some feelgood nostalgia vibes.

One last thought, I actually think there are too many teams in the NRL as it is. Rationalisation of Sydney-based clubs has to occur, preferably through demotion to NSW cup (looking specifically at clubs with a smaller geographical footprint i.e. Manly & Cronulla). Mergers or joint ventures shoyld be explored too, so that we end up with approx 4 or 5 Sydney teams in a 14 team NRL competition.

MT

 

[The Great Dane]

Thanks Great Dane, appreciate the response. Still not sold on ADL as an expansion city though. It would take about 5-7 years for an ADL team to be a consistent finals contender, and if you look at other codes in AU, expansion teams need instant success to encourage supporters to jump on the bandwagon. The conception of Melbourne Storm and the immediate success they enjoyed and have cultivated over the last 2 decades, is something that I don't think will be repeated by another RL team in a non-heartland area. Perth at least has done a lot of work with the NRL to bring club and rep fixtures to Perth on a regular basis, so of all the non-heartland areas to expand into, I'd expect them to get the nod over ADL and NZ2.

If we are going to hold the standard that all expansion teams must be instantly successful on the pitch then we shouldn't even try to expand at all because there's no way that we could possibly grantee that without rigging the competition.

Though I accept that on field success is important to a clubs success, it's not something that we can really control for, nor is it as important as making sure that they are financially viable with a good business plan, which are both things that we can control for.

On who should get the next license, well that should only really depend on who presents the best bid, and since there currently isn't an Adelaide bid, or for that matter an NZ2 bid, it seems unlikely that they would be the next cab off the rank over Perth whom do have a bid (potentially multiple bids).

IMO, Brisbane 2 is a must for expansion (on the proviso that it's not a plastic soulless team like Brisbane Bombers - it has to be an existing entity like Redcliffe, Brothers or Ipswich for mine). They all bring to the table an existing supporter base, a game at Suncorp Stadium every weekend, and some feelgood nostalgia vibes.

The problem with existing entities is that they carry with them history. Some of that history is positive, like their fan-base and established brand, but some of that history is also negative like the fact that most of the people in the city aren't a part of that fan-base and will generally have negative opinions of that established brand because they support/supported other teams or come from other areas of the city.

If you give e.g. the Jets a license then you are going to alienate all the e.g. Souths Logan Magpies fans who don't hold a very high opinion of them and wouldn't be caught dead supporting them, and it will take generations of good community engagement and marketing to change those attitudes.
If you start a new club with an independent brand that doesn't carry any baggage, then you aren't alienating anybody and you are giving everybody a chance to form their own opinions. Yes that can turn bad if you give everybody a negative impression, like the Titans (or any of the other GC teams lol), but if done right it can also unite disparate groups behind the one team, when previously they wouldn't be caught dead wearing the same jersey, just like how the Broncos, Knights, Raiders, Cowboys, etc, all managed to unite a bunch of groups behind the one team, thus making their initial fan-bases much larger than it would have been had they instead only represent one local club.

Now that isn't necessarily to say that the Bombers should get the next Brisbane license, as I don't think that their bid is a particularly good one (though hypothetically it could be molded into a good bid I reckon), but neither are any of the other Brisbane bids really all that good in my opinion (though Western Corridor probably comes the closest IMO).

BTW, we have no reason to believe that the Dolphins plan to play out of Suncorp other than media speculation, we know that Western Corridor (i.e. the Jets) wanted to get their own stadium built in either Ipswich or Springfield, and though the club would be based in Brisbane the Brothers bid isn't really a bid for a Brisbane license (it's complicated).

 

[Welsh RL & RU watcher]

NZ rugby is (I am guessing) a bit like cricket. The national team totally dominates interest. Which means there may be space for club teams involved in a good competition (Super 12s is not a good competition).

I'd say it's just about good.

 

[mongoose]

I wonder why there isn't ever much talk about a Sunshine Coast team? Sunshine Coast is probably the same size market as Central Coast or North QLD. It's a perfect location for a relocated Sydney team provided the stadium can be upgraded. I think Manly's feeder team used to be the Falcons, however I believe they are linked to the Storm now.

 

[footy75]

Why the obsession with a team in Adelaide? There are probably 3 or 4 expansion areas ahead of it, not including existing areas under-represented at NRL level (namely, SEQ)

Despite its population people in Adelaide get behind sports...Good crowds for Big Bash, A-league, AFL and NBL. Probably because there really isn't much else to do there.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Despite its population people in Adelaide get behind sports...Good crowds for Big Bash, A-league, AFL and NBL. Probably because there really isn't much else to do there.

The Adelaide Rams had a good average crowd of 15.5k in 1997 before the fall-out of the SL war ravaged them. That average is just a starting point with room for growth and would stand up as a decent average in the NRL even today.

 

[The Great Dane]

I wonder why there isn't ever much talk about a Sunshine Coast team? Sunshine Coast is probably the same size market as Central Coast or North QLD. It's a perfect location for a relocated Sydney team provided the stadium can be upgraded. I think Manly's feeder team used to be the Falcons, however I believe they are linked to the Storm now.

Because it's hard to justify the NRL adding more clubs from small regional markets like the CC and SC, while large metropolitan markets like Brisbane, Perth, Adelaide, and arguably even Melbourne, go either unrepresented or underrepresented.

 

[mongoose]

Because it's hard to justify the NRL adding more clubs from small regional markets like the CC and SC, while large metropolitan markets like Brisbane, Perth, Adelaide, and arguably even Melbourne, go either unrepresented or underrepresented.

I agree Brisbane 2, Perth, Adelaide should come first but SC should definitely be considered down the track for a relocation. It's more viable than central QLD which some people harp on about.

 

[T-Boon]

I would go:

Brisbane 2
NZ 2 (relocation)
Perth (relocation)
Brisbane 3
NZ 3 (relocation)