NRL Expansion Priorities

[BuffaloRules]

It's soccer, who gives a shit. It's amazing they can get 2000 fans. If we go by the 'look at the Mariners' logic then we better get rid of the Titans.


el.

Firstly, I never bought up Soccer in the first place, just commenting on the continual alarmism that people say about soccer taking over the CC. Has been happening here since 2004.

Secondly. WTF??

Mariners would love to get the crowds the Titans have got.

 

[reanimate]

Its good everbody has an opinion and I'm not knocking this great game of ours but as a Central Coast local and somebody involved with the local junior rugby league while watching our own club struggle for numbers its really hard not to have a opinion. We don't have a big leagues club and have to rely on bbq and canteen revenue, we don't have three sides in each age group like some of the bigger clubs and we are all volunteers. I'm not an old North Sydney Bears fan actually I've never followed the Bears, would I like to see the Bears on the Central Coast hell yes. With people saying Wyongs NSW Cup will be merged with either the Sharks or the Storm I think you'll find the Bulldogs are well advanced in talks with the Roos and in my opinion another stupid decision. If it ain't the Bears then how about Manly take over the area, somebody in need of juniors not the bloody Bulldogs who are always successful in Matts and Ball...dumb, dumb, dumb.

Considering that Gosford probably wont get a team to themselves, i imagine the best they can hope for is something alone the lines of what the Illawarra have with half of the Dragons games...

I dont know who theyd do this with though; Manly is the obvious choice if the locals are over the Northern Eagles stuff, but if not maybe the Roosters.

I cant really picture any other teams doing it well. The Sharks might consider it, but going north and south of SYdney feels a bit awkward to me territory-wise.

Manly could adopt the area, but then it leaves Manly really stretched in terms of the area and interests they have to represent. If the North Shore (hypothetically) ends up getting brought under the Sea Eagles, then the games at Brookvale are the only NRL games a huge population north of the harbour have easy access to. Limit the number of those by sharing a large portion of Manly's games with the CC, then suddenly an area with ~1 million people will only get ~6 local NRL games.

For that arrangement to work, the CC would have to be happy with only getting 2-3 Manly games a year, sharing equally wouldn't really work. I'd be fine with that happening, and 9-10 games staying at Brookvale, but I think the best idea would be for Manly to incorporate the North Shore and concentrate on the NS and NB while bringing in a standalone CC team later down the track when the area has grown more and can better support a team without any Sydney ties.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Manly could adopt the area, but then it leaves Manly really stretched in terms of the area and interests they have to represent. If the North Shore (hypothetically) ends up getting brought under the Sea Eagles, then the games at Brookvale are the only NRL games a huge population north of the harbour have easy access to. Limit the number of those by sharing a large portion of Manly's games with the CC, then suddenly an area with ~1 million people will only get ~6 local NRL games.

I was thinking 8-4 split, but fair enough, Manly would be pretty thinly spread. Maybe the Roosters??? We all know they cant pack out a Stadium 12 times a year; If they moved games that wouldnt draw well in Sydney, say Newcastle, Manly,Melbourne and a Queenland team, itd probably give their crowds a nice boost and they could commit long term to the area, ala Dragons and the Illawarra.

For that arrangement to work, the CC would have to be happy with only getting 2-3 Manly games a year, sharing equally wouldn't really work. I'd be fine with that happening, and 9-10 games staying at Brookvale, but I think the best idea would be for Manly to incorporate the North Shore and concentrate on the NS and NB while bringing in a standalone CC team later down the track when the area has grown more and can better support a team without any Sydney ties.

Yeah, North Sydney/North Shore area was the other area they could dig into.

Hypothetical question (for Manly or North Sydney resident): If Brooky Oval was condemned or something happened that meant Manly couldnt play there anymore, A lot of people would say play at SFS or ANZ but that defeats the perpose of a Northern Suburbs team.
If the stadium had to be moved, where would be the next best place?? i dont know North Sydney well enough to know myself, but i am interested; where is the best place if a new stadium was to be build (away from Brooky)?????

 

[paulmac]

Land avaliabilty would be the issue.I can remember in the early 90 s there was talk of North's and Manly playing out of a new stadium in St Ives.Personally I've always thought you could fit a bluetounge type stadium on Chatswood oval.Right next to rail and there are plenty of buses to the Northern Beaches.

 

[reanimate]

I was thinking 8-4 split, but fair enough, Manly would be pretty thinly spread. Maybe the Roosters??? We all know they cant pack out a Stadium 12 times a year; If they moved games that wouldnt draw well in Sydney, say Newcastle, Manly,Melbourne and a Queenland team, itd probably give their crowds a nice boost and they could commit long term to the area, ala Dragons and the Illawarra.

The Roosters could work, I'm not sure how many of their fans would want to travel to the CC though, so any Roosters crowds on the CC would be almost entirely dependant on CC support (it'd also be an awkward split, geographically). Would the CC get behind the Roosters? I'm not sure, I'm not aware of much in the way of Roosters support there. I'm sure there is some, but nowhere near as much as there is in the way of Manly or Souths support there.

An 8/4 split with Manly is a pretty good option, Manly already has a decent sized supporter base on the CC. Basically, the CC needs to accept that they aren't getting a full time team there for quite a while. It'll either be a Sydney team bringing a smaller portion of their games there, the current set up where a few teams bring a game there, or they can wait until a full-time CC team can be established without any ties to Sydney.

Yeah, North Sydney/North Shore area was the other area they could dig into.

Hypothetical question (for Manly or North Sydney resident): If Brooky Oval was condemned or something happened that meant Manly couldnt play there anymore, A lot of people would say play at SFS or ANZ but that defeats the perpose of a Northern Suburbs team.
If the stadium had to be moved, where would be the next best place?? i dont know North Sydney well enough to know myself, but i am interested; where is the best place if a new stadium was to be build (away from Brooky)?????

Yeah playing out of the SFS doesn't make much sense, it's not very accessible for a lot of people living North of the bridge. It's ok for finals and attending the odd away game, but you aren't going to get a large audience travelling for every home game.

In terms of other possible stadium sites, there's a few, but they all have their issues. Rat Park in Narrabeen is one potential site, and could be shared with its current tenant, the Shute Shield Warringah Rats team (until they die/go broke, that is). The site has plenty of room for a stadium and a good amount of parking could be built in the existing car parks at the front of the site, but I think if any new potential Sea Eagles/Union/soccer stadium were to be funded by the government and/or NRL, they'd insist that the stadium is also easily accessible from the North Shore. Rat Park is on the verge of being too far away from the North Shore to be attractive for a quick trip to a game.

Like paulmac said, there's an absolute stack of land at St Ives Showground that could be turned into an amazing stadium with huge amounts of parking. It's also right on the border of the Northern Beaches and the North Shore. The problem with that site is that there's effectively no public transport that takes people there (from either the NS or the NB), if you were to run regular, easily accessible bus lines that go past there, it'd be great.

Manly Oval itself is unfortunately a no go. It'd be an amazing, scenic location for a stadium, but I don't think there's enough land to build a big, full-sized stadium with heaps of seating on the site. It's also really congested, but there is a huge amount of public transport avaialble.

Personally I've always thought you could fit a bluetounge type stadium on Chatswood oval.Right next to rail and there are plenty of buses to the Northern Beaches.

Chatswood is another option. It's very easily accessible- there's huge amounts of public transport available, but the streets around Chatswood Oval itself are so tiny and narrow that the amount of traffic a game would generate would deadlock almost the entire area. Chatswood itself already gets really congested, I'm not sure how it'd cope with, say, a high drawing NRL game on a Friday night while people are returning from/leaving work, leaving school/getting home from school etc.

While Brookvale at the moment is rundown and not to the standard it should be, the site itself is pretty good, as it's easily accessible from the main bus lines, and is a short trip from much of the North Shore.

 

[umina panther]

More Roosters up here than Manly. Other teams with more support. Souffs, Tigers, Parra and Bulldogs

 

[umina panther]

And Dragons

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

The Roosters could work, I'm not sure how many of their fans would want to travel to the CC though, so any Roosters crowds on the CC would be almost entirely dependant on CC support (it'd also be an awkward split, geographically). Would the CC get behind the Roosters? I'm not sure, I'm not aware of much in the way of Roosters support there. I'm sure there is some, but nowhere near as much as there is in the way of Manly or Souths support there.

An 8/4 split with Manly is a pretty good option, Manly already has a decent sized supporter base on the CC. Basically, the CC needs to accept that they aren't getting a full time team there for quite a while. It'll either be a Sydney team bringing a smaller portion of their games there, the current set up where a few teams bring a game there, or they can wait until a full-time CC team can be established without any ties to Sydney.

I doubt immediate support for the roosters would be a huge problem, if they commited to working on a fan base and played there regularly it would only take a few years to gain the hardcore fans. And before that, theyre just trying to sell NRL games in general to the locals (not really a tough sell for regional NSW).

As for an awkward geographical area, i doubt that would be a huge problem. The Dragons are split in two by the sharks and it doesnt worry them. Id think the Roosters would just be happy to have a junior base like the Central Coast to work with, even just in terms of PR. They are famous for buying players from other areas and it seems like theyre trying to move away from that perception; if they were to suddenly take in the CC, the "orphan area of the NRL", invest and create pathways through that, it would go a long way to changing their clubs brand for the better.

Yeah playing out of the SFS doesn't make much sense, it's not very accessible for a lot of people living North of the bridge. It's ok for finals and attending the odd away game, but you aren't going to get a large audience travelling for every home game.

In terms of other possible stadium sites, there's a few, but they all have their issues. Rat Park in Narrabeen is one potential site, and could be shared with its current tenant, the Shute Shield Warringah Rats team (until they die/go broke, that is). The site has plenty of room for a stadium and a good amount of parking could be built in the existing car parks at the front of the site, but I think if any new potential Sea Eagles/Union/soccer stadium were to be funded by the government and/or NRL, they'd insist that the stadium is also easily accessible from the North Shore. Rat Park is on the verge of being too far away from the North Shore to be attractive for a quick trip to a game.

Like paulmac said, there's an absolute stack of land at St Ives Showground that could be turned into an amazing stadium with huge amounts of parking. It's also right on the border of the Northern Beaches and the North Shore. The problem with that site is that there's effectively no public transport that takes people there (from either the NS or the NB), if you were to run regular, easily accessible bus lines that go past there, it'd be great.

Manly Oval itself is unfortunately a no go. It'd be an amazing, scenic location for a stadium, but I don't think there's enough land to build a big, full-sized stadium with heaps of seating on the site. It's also really congested, but there is a huge amount of public transport avaialble.

Chatswood is another option. It's very easily accessible- there's huge amounts of public transport available, but the streets around Chatswood Oval itself are so tiny and narrow that the amount of traffic a game would generate would deadlock almost the entire area. Chatswood itself already gets really congested, I'm not sure how it'd cope with, say, a high drawing NRL game on a Friday night while people are returning from/leaving work, leaving school/getting home from school etc.

While Brookvale at the moment is rundown and not to the standard it should be, the site itself is pretty good, as it's easily accessible from the main bus lines, and is a short trip from much of the North Shore.

Thanks, man. This is exactly the kind of info i was looking for. I havent spent enough time in the Northern Suburbs to put this all together myself, but from the time ive spent in Brooky (just the few games ive been to) it doesnt strike me as a great place for an NRL stadium, particularly for a team that needs to grow to survive and compete long term.

From what i can gather about each of the other places you suggested, Chatswood looks the best. Private transport may be an issue, but the rail line from Central up to Hornsby means people just park one or two stations up and ride to the ground. Space is obviously a problem aswell, but a local council isnt going to turn their nose up at the prospect of a national stadium and an NRL team bringing people and money into the area every second week. I imagine they would be able to make some room in a good spot.

 

[Rodney]

Well that makes it exactly like North Queensland and Gold Coast. 30 minutes is nothing compared to what some Cowboys fans travel.

Not Really.
Many of the Bears proposed catchment areas are situated much closer to opposing teams home grounds than their own.
While many of the suburbs don't exactly have teams representing them, they certainly have teams nearby and many of these places wouldn't consider themselves part of the 'Central Coast'.
NRL fans in Nqld and on the Gold Coast don't really have any real local viable alternatives to travelling 30 mins to games, and fans can clearly identify themselves as falling within the catchment.

The Bears proposed 'million' certainly has some fanciful additions.
notably the especially small circle of influence granted to manly, as well as a western reach out to west of Penant Hills.
Locals of areas such as North Sydney and Chatswood are supposedly supposed to more closely identify with a team playing over 60km away than one playing less than 15km away.
Similarly Penant Hills locals are supposed to care about a team playing more than 55km away compared to one playing less than 15km away (in Parramatta).

Bears bid proponents over-emphasize the size of the 'Central Coast'.
While there may be 1million people in between Sydney City and Newcastle (bar the silvertails) not all of those people identify themselves as living on the Central Coast. The North Shore entrudes heavily as does the Hunter on this space and the space that's left has been heavily influenced by out of town clubs (Bunnies, Tigers, Manly, Easts and Newcastle all get decent crowds when they take games up there).

 

[Ourimbah Magpies]

More Roosters up here than Manly. Other teams with more support. Souffs, Tigers, Parra and Bulldogs

No offence but I don't think so, Manly has a massive following up here others are Souths and the Tigers.

 

[The Mad Hatter]

If 8 Sydney teams and the Knights played ONE game each at Gosford, they'd have 9 games a year and be completely catered for. Considering clubs in Sydney are selling between 1-3 games a season leaving them with 9-10 home games, Gosford get it pretty good IMO and they get variety.

 

[umina panther]

If 8 Sydney teams and the Knights played ONE game each at Gosford, they'd have 9 games a year and be completely catered for. Considering clubs in Sydney are selling between 1-3 games a season leaving them with 9-10 home games, Gosford get it pretty good IMO and they get variety.

This is the bullshit way we get treated up here.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

This is the bullshit way we get treated up here.

F*cking self entitled bullshit!!!!

WHy do you think you deserve anything better?!!! Other areas would kill for the right to host the games that Gosford gets and, not only do you not appreciate it, you actually complain about it.

Gosford isnt even the size of Wollongong and the Central Coast is smaller than the Illawarra; the area that couldnt eve sustain the Steelers. Gosford had their chance for a team in the Northern Eagles and they didnt even thin that was good enough for them.

If that is how the area is going to react to the NRL then its not worth the effort trying to please them.

Id rather see Central Queensland get a team before Gosford; the area is much smaller and less profitable, sure, but at least they wont start bitching that they dont get to host the grand final when their team makes it.

 

[umina panther]

To say that the Coast had a team in the Northern Eagles is wrong, that was never our team and the way the Bears have been strung along is disgusting.

 

[umina panther]

I also understand that the Coast is zero chance of getting a team unless a Sydney team folds or 100% moves here and that is the correct decision.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

So what are you asking for then??

someone suggests that the Central Coast gets 9 games a year and you say that just another example of how badly you are treated...

 

[The Mad Hatter]

9 games a year over a five year period while the NRL sorts itself, clubs and expansion policies I thought wasn't bad. It's not like Gosford bring in 20000 every game and it's its own region desperately crying out for a team.

 

[rooster25]

I was thinking 8-4 split, but fair enough, Manly would be pretty thinly spread. Maybe the Roosters??? We all know they cant pack out a Stadium 12 times a year; If they moved games that wouldnt draw well in Sydney, say Newcastle, Manly,Melbourne and a Queenland team, itd probably give their crowds a nice boost and they could commit long term to the area, ala Dragons and the Illawarra.



Why would the Roosters move any games anywhere? Our club just won the comp, had a 20 000 crowd average and are very well off financially. Maybe instead of looking at moving Easts games in order to get more juniors maybe you could all look at why the NRL/ARL have ignored the Eastern Suburbs in development for so long.

Like it or not the East is a very important area to Sydney sport/business and while AFL,Soccor and RU have thrown so much time and money into the area the RL has left it to a club to fight against whole sports organisations. Don't get me wrong Easts could and should of done more yet if Souths didn't steal Easts boundaries( has anyone ever thought there in south sydney while in coogee?) and the RL made an effort in the East like they do in the west of Sydney then we would never be having this conversation.

The only way for a CC team to work is to have its own CC team and area. It can't work if a Sydney team goes and plays 4 games a year there. CC deserve there own team however unfortunately there is not enough room for another NSW team while there is no Perth.

 

[Ourimbah Magpies]

Funny how you say there is not enough room for another NSW team but then you mention Perth where 100% of the team will need to be relocated from NSW and QLD anyways. Oh look there is a WA team in the NRL but no WA players, yeah makes sense. I have always regarded Melbourne as another QLD side. The Central Coast has the 3rd largest league nursery but we don't deserve our own side yet then people say without juniors there is no rugby league. We don't care about NRL game variety we want a side of our own. I couldn't support the Northern Eagles as it was really Manly in disguise, if the merger was 50/50 well yes but it wasn't.

 

[Ourimbah Magpies]

Funny how people continually say how the Mariners are struggling financially but I bet some NRL clubs would crave their success rate, crowd numbers and consistancy. Hell the Mariners never buy players of STAR level but they are always up the top of the competition and this a soccer side in rugby league heartland. No wonder other clubs are scared of the Coast having an NRL side. Hell some clubs may have to start developing their OWN juniors.