NRL Expansion Priorities

[rednblack]

Where did I claim that "the NRL will never want or need another team in NSW"?!

I never said that YOU did!

The one thing that is fact and will never change is that the NRL does not want or need another club in NSW.

 

[ek999]

You might want to check who made the two posts you quoted...

 

[The Great Dane]

I never said that YOU did!

Ahh yeah, I can assure you that PR and I are not the same person.....

 

[Perth Red]

Really? You have proof of this fact I assume? Perhaps you can point to the media release where this was categorically started? I didn't realize you were authorized by the NRL to speak on their behalf. Or is this really just your opinion, your assumption of what the situation might actually be...?

Every quote about expansion from grant and smith. Since Gallop left has there been a single positive comment from the NRL/arlc about a team in nsw? They have talked up Perth and Queensland but have said nothing about another nsw team.

The "fact" will be proven correct when no extra nsw club is added to the NRL in the next 30 years.

And if you want to get semantic, oxford definition:
a thing that is known or proved to be true:

 

[rednblack]

if you want to get semantic, oxford definition:
a thing that is known or proved to be true:

You can't prove a negative, so even if/when two non-NSW teams are selected, it cannot be said, let alone proven, that it will never happen, which is what you did.

I thought your lot invented the language. The least you could do is learn to f**king use it properly!

 

[The Great Dane]

You can't prove a negative, so even if/when two non-NSW teams are selected, it cannot be said, let alone proven, that it will never happen, which is what you did.

Firstly anything can be proven or disproven with the right information or lack there of information, for example though no 100% conclusive evidence that the Loch Ness Monster does not exist has ever been found (and probably never can be found) at the same there is a complete lack of evidence of anything that you would expect to find at all if a population of large Plesiosaurs were living in Loch Ness, so whats more believable that there is a large population of Plesiosaurs that don't poop, don't leave the carcasses of their prey behind or their own carcasses when they die or footprints in the ground when they walk over sand, etc, etc or is it more likely that because of the lack of all these things around Loch Ness that there simply aren't any Plesiosaurs in Loch Ness. Basically you can disprove a negative within realistic criteria if there is no evidence whatsoever for that negative's existence that you would expect to see if it did exist.

I really butchered that explanation, you should look it up for a better one...

Anyway what sort of proof (or lack there of proof) do you want, maybe we can provide said proof if you say what you need.

BTW I notice that you still haven't come up with an area in NSW that would be able to support a stand alone NRL club in the near future.

I thought your lot invented the language. The least you could do is learn to f**king use it properly!

Actually English is a west Germanic language that was introduced to Britain by invaders, so no his lot did not invent the language. Though for all intents and purposes English did develop into the language it is today in Britain.

 

[rednblack]

Firstly anything can be proven or disproven with the right information or lack there of information, for example though no 100% conclusive evidence that the Loch Ness Monster does not exist has ever been found (and probably never can be found) at the same there is a complete lack of evidence of anything that you would expect to find at all if a population of large Plesiosaurs were living in Loch Ness, so whats more believable that there is a large population of Plesiosaurs that don't poop, don't leave the carcasses of their prey behind or their own carcasses when they die or footprints in the ground when they walk over sand, etc, etc or is it more likely that because of the lack of all these things around Loch Ness that there simply aren't any Plesiosaurs in Loch Ness. Basically you can disprove a negative within realistic criteria if there is no evidence whatsoever for that negative's existence that you would expect to see if it did exist.

I really butchered that explanation, you should look it up for a better one...

Anyway what sort of proof (or lack there of proof) do you want, maybe we can provide said proof if you say what you need.

BTW I notice that you still haven't come up with an area in NSW that would be able to support a stand alone NRL club in the near future.



Actually English is a west Germanic language that was introduced to Britain by invaders, so no his lot did not invent the language. Though for all intents and purposes English did develop into the language it is today in Britain.

Yep, and it also draws from all the classical languages, as well as heavily from French. The Englanders were the ones to bring a degree of coherence to the many dialects being used at the time, and massaged them into the language we know as English today. So for all intents and purposes, you're agreeing with me. Glad we got that sorted.

And if you must know, I DO believe that the central coast can sustain a full time local team. You may not think so, fair enough. I do.

 

[rednblack]

And yes, you did make a pig's ear out of your attempt at an explanation.

 

[The Great Dane]

And if you must know, I DO believe that the central coast can sustain a full time local team. You may not think so, fair enough. I do.

So somehow we are to belive the CC is going to be able to support an NRL team when they seriously struggle to even support a much less expensive A-league team, with a population much smaller then Canberra's, Newcastle's and the GC's all of whom really struggle to keep their/our clubs up and running from time to time and without using their NS connections to encroach into the seriously over saturated Sydney market, which is just about an hour away anyway so there is no desperate need for a club directly in the CC market as it can easily be catered to by the bulging Sydney market.

Strait away there are doubts about the CC's chances of survival as it is unlikely that they would be able to garner the amount sponsorship necessary to survive, it's extremely unlikely that the fans of the club alone would be able to support the club and realistically the only way that they would be able to support themselves would be to rely on industry and sponsorship in NS, which strait away is encroaching on the Sydney market which for the meantime needs to be a no go zone!

The Bears would either regain their uneasy existences at the expense of other Sydney clubs (most likely the Eagles) or at the whim of an owner, which has dangers all of it's own.

And all of those problems are without even getting into the grand daddy of them all, expansion priorities from a business perspective, e.g. how much will adding a team in area x be worth to the TV deal, to viewership, merchandise sales, to expanding the games national and international footprint, etc etc which unfortunately the CC losses out to many other bids and areas simply because their is often less risk and more to be gained in other areas such as Perth, Brisbane and SEQ, Wellington, etc, etc, etc.

Put simply the idea of a CC team doesn't stand up to any serious scrutiny, and their only redeeming factor is that they are the Bears and that it'd be a feel good story if the Bears got back into the NRL, but that one redeeming factor of the Bears being attached to the CC doesn't require the CC for the benefits that come alone with the Bears being reintroduced into the NRL.

And yes, you did make a pig's ear out of your attempt at an explanation.

But you get my point that extraordinary claims take extraordinary evidence and though something may never be able to be proved or disproved without a shadow of a doubt, if the evidence to prove the extraordinary claim doesn't exist at all one can disprove a negative for all intents and purposes.

If there's absolutely no droppings, no carcasses, no signs of large nests or egg shells, no signs of movement of large semi-aquatic animals and no signs of the havoc that a large breeding population of them would leave behind, then with such a lack of evidence to support the extraordinary claim of Plesiosaurs in Loch Ness then for all intents and purposes the claims have disproven themselves as the ones making these claims can't provide any evidence to support their claims no matter how hard they search and the claims though they are a negative can be disregarded.

That's a much, much better explanation I think, it's disappointing that I had to kill Nessy in the process though :lol:.

 

[The Engineers Room]

The issue should never be the number of juniors in the comp at the moment. The purpose of a new team is to grow the sport. That may be more fans (TV or live) and it may be a wider talent pool.

 

[Ourimbah Magpies]

I can't believe the number of people who justify rapid expansion on the basis of the fact it's called the 'National Rugby League' therefore we need representation from every major centre nationally. Doesn't work like that.

Using that logic, if we took the above idea of naming it the South Pacific Rugby League, we'd have to expand to 48 teams simply so that we could 'truly' represent the region we claim to be.

I totally agree but it will never happen. The Rabbitohs and Roosters need to merge to make a Sydney City side, you need to get rid of the Sharks, there are to many sides in Western Sydney with the Wests Tigers, the Bulldogs, the Eels and the Panthers, two would/should go. Admit the Central Coast Bears and then look at other states once they have established junior development etc. As I said none of this will happen.

 

[Ourimbah Magpies]

rednblack you are bashing your head up against a brick wall. Lets see where the Perth Pirates finish the S.G.Ball season and we'll go from there. Yes I agree there are to many Sydney sides but why should the Central Coast suffer. You say a Central Coast side would struggle and then compare a Central Coast league side to the Mariners. This shows how stupid you are Great Dane. The Mariners have been very successful, they buy limited big name players yet are always placed highly on the A League ladder and average 10,000 attendances, not bad for a soccer side in a RUGBY LEAGUE HEARTLAND. Looking back over previous posts I come to the conclusion you favour the business model of rugby league more than the development side. As I have stated in an above post the NRL set up is ridiculous with so many sides located next to each other. How many handouts do the NRL need to give out to struggling clubs, why should they help them ?, loyalty ?. The Sharks certainly didn't show any to the ARL when crossing over to Super League. Admit the Central Coast Bears, maybe the NRL should reward all clubs for junior development and not people like Nick Politis with deep pockets. Reward areas with large junior numbers with a rise in their salary cap or any local junior who makes it to the NRL is also exempt from the salary cap not matter if he then goes onto represent his State or Country and you'll soon see junior development become popular, maybe sides with little junior numbers would then be encouraged to adopt a Country area to call their own ?. Theres nothing worse than seeing a kid who is 17 and he has played for seven different clubs in four different areas.

 

[The Great Dane]

rednblack you are bashing your head up against a brick wall. Lets see where the Perth Pirates finish the S.G.Ball season and we'll go from there. Yes I agree there are to many Sydney sides but why should the Central Coast suffer.

That's just it, whichever way you put it the CC isn't suffering when it comes to RL. The CC is just over an hour away from 10, I repeat 10 different NRL teams!

The CC is practically sitting in a RL fans heaven because they have access to to so many NRL teams literally right on their doorstep, if the people of the CC want to watch live professional RL it's just a stones throw away.

Back before the Raiders were brought into existence I would have had to travel 4 hours to see live top level RL and even that is nothing when compared to the closest NRL teams to Perth, Adelaide or Darwin which are literally days away, and I'm sure that the RL fans of NQ, Melbourne, hell even Brisbane would love to have access to even half the amount of NRL that you do if you want it, I sure as hell would.

I can only imagine what you would say if I said why should Queanbeyan suffer because Canberra has a team .

You say a Central Coast side would struggle and then compare a Central Coast league side to the Mariners. This shows how stupid you are Great Dane. The Mariners have been very successful, they buy limited big name players yet are always placed highly on the A League ladder and average 10,000 attendances, not bad for a soccer side in a RUGBY LEAGUE HEARTLAND.

I'm sure I've been through this with you many times before but I'll say it again, (possible) on field success stands for next to nothing when it comes to an expansion discussion!

It's all about whether or not the club would be likely to be a sustainable and hopefully even successful business, and quite frankly though the Mariners have enjoy much success on the field, off it they're seriously struggling and that doesn't bode well for any possible CC based NRL club.

Looking back over previous posts I come to the conclusion you favour the business model of rugby league more than the development side.

It depends on the context, but when it comes to possible expansion yes I do favor the bids that are better for the NRL as a business and are the most sustainable over the best developmental expansion, because not very much development is going to happen if the club is dead in five years, in fact it would set the game back in that area if a club was to be formed and then fold very quickly (see the GC sagas, the Western Reds and Adelaide Rams).

But at the same time I wouldn't support a bid just because they have the best business model, there are other criteria like where the club is situated, how much they can give back to the game and the NRL, possible juniors development, popularity with local fans etc.

Just for example, the Bombers may have arguably the most sustainable business model of all the bid teams, but it certainly is not in the best interests of the NRL to give them a license.

As I have stated in an above post the NRL set up is ridiculous with so many sides located next to each other. How many handouts do the NRL need to give out to struggling clubs, why should they help them ?, loyalty ?. The Sharks certainly didn't show any to the ARL when crossing over to Super League.

These are hard questions and not really ones that I have the answers for.

But I will say that IMO from a business perspective and a developmental perspective the NRL never should have allowed so many Sydney based teams to join the NRL and should never have allowed the Red and the Rams to fold after the SL war.

I'll also say that IMO the Bears should have never have been allowed to merge or fold, it was obvious that they were sustainable long term and that it was extenuating circumstances that put them in the situation they were in (then again I may be biased, I am an old Bears fan after all! (Bet you'd never have been able to figure that out if I didn't tell you!)).

Lastly I'll say that IMO if a club in a none strategic location has needed to be propped up for a extended period of time and seems unable to get out of the quagmire they are in, then there is a point where the life support needs to be turned off and IMO their are multiple teams (that will go unnamed) in the league right now that are either very close to that point or have been passed it for an extended period of time now.

Admit the Central Coast Bears, maybe the NRL should reward all clubs for junior development and not people like Nick Politis with deep pockets. Reward areas with large junior numbers with a rise in their salary cap or any local junior who makes it to the NRL is also exempt from the salary cap not matter if he then goes onto represent his State or Country and you'll soon see junior development become popular, maybe sides with little junior numbers would then be encouraged to adopt a Country area to call their own ?. Theres nothing worse than seeing a kid who is 17 and he has played for seven different clubs in four different areas.

Though I share your grievances about the way the NRL treats clubs that put junior development at the forefront of their football operations (I am a Raiders fan after all), none of this really affects expansion plans all that much.

Let me put it this way, the point of expansion (normally, there're a few exceptions but none of them are or would be for that purpose alone) isn't to reward areas that have a high participation rate or provide many players for the game, it's to spread the NRL's market and hopefully increase it's share of the Australian sports market and in the course of doing so spread the sport of RL.

Unfortunately for the CC it simply is a market that is pretty much already covered by the current NRL setup and doesn't really need a team at the moment (similar to the situation in Tas with the AFL), that's not to say that the CC circumstances won't change and that they will never get a team, they very well may get a team at some point, but I can't see it happening anytime soon.

 

[Ourimbah Magpies]

Great Dane did you know back in 1981 the Central Coast were actually offered a spot in the then NSWRL competition but they weren't ready knocked it back and the Canberra Raiders were then born.

 

[The Great Dane]

Great Dane did you know back in 1981 the Central Coast were actually offered a spot in the then NSWRL competition but they weren't ready knocked it back and the Canberra Raiders were then born.

No I didn't know this and I don't see your point.

PS. I think your forgetting about the Steelers.

 

[Perth Red]

5 years ago there was hardly any kids playing RL in WA. Now we are fielding a team in SG Ball, have a developing U16's academy set up, a SHS competition and a growing jnr team base at WARL clubs. In 5 years when expansion happens that will be even stronger, 5 years after that one can only imagine how much stronger the Jnr development programmes will be in WA with a WC pirates side driving popualirty and profile of the game.

We already have NRL first graders coming out of the WARL and will start to see the SG Ball kids hopefully moving through the ranks into first teams in the next couple of years.

When kids can actually see that they have a career pathway to the NRL in perth they will jump ship from the Western farce quicker than a sandgroper out of the ocean when a shark siren goes off!

 

[Southern Rooster]

Perth and a second Qld team is where expansion should cease.
I would love to see a Central Coast team but cannot see it happening and I don't think the game has the players or finances at the moment to sustain more then 18 teams. Bit catch 22 ish I guess. I miss the Bears and like the idea of a central Coast but I believe the other two areas are a better bet at this stage.

 

[bobmar28]

Perth and a second Qld team is where expansion should cease.
I would love to see a Central Coast team but cannot see it happening and I don't think the game has the players or finances at the moment to sustain more then 18 teams. Bit catch 22 ish I guess. I miss the Bears and like the idea of a central Coast but I believe the other two areas are a better bet at this stage.

The answer is simple. The ARLC should reduce the number of Sydney teams by at least one and give the CC their team.

 

[Ourimbah Magpies]

5 years ago there was hardly any kids playing RL in WA. Now we are fielding a team in SG Ball, have a developing U16's academy set up, a SHS competition and a growing jnr team base at WARL clubs. In 5 years when expansion happens that will be even stronger, 5 years after that one can only imagine how much stronger the Jnr development programmes will be in WA with a WC pirates side driving popualirty and profile of the game.

We already have NRL first graders coming out of the WARL and will start to see the SG Ball kids hopefully moving through the ranks into first teams in the next couple of years.

When kids can actually see that they have a career pathway to the NRL in perth they will jump ship from the Western farce quicker than a sandgroper out of the ocean when a shark siren goes off!

NRL first graders ?, I only know of Corey Patterson originally from WA ?. I can't see WA embracing league and I class them in the same position as Melbourne. Besides the travelling NSW and QLD miners and a handful of locals league will be lucky to make a dent in the AFL's popularity.

 

[The Great Dane]

NRL first graders ?, I only know of Corey Patterson originally from WA ?. I can't see WA embracing league and I class them in the same position as Melbourne.

How do you mean you class them in the same position as the Storm?

I honestly don't understand what you mean by this.

Besides the travelling NSW and QLD miners and a handful of locals league will be lucky to make a dent in the AFL's popularity.

That's not the point of an expansion into Perth, or anywhere for that matter.

The point of expansion is to spread the game and to gain a share of a new market that will be profitable to the NRL and in the best interests of the game, never to try and move in on an opponents 'territory' and take over.

Though the AFL might be trying to take over Sydney, one way or another plans like theirs are always destine for failure and are a huge wast of time and money.

Anyway on another note I'd love to know where you were going with this post-

Great Dane did you know back in 1981 the Central Coast were actually offered a spot in the then NSWRL competition but they weren't ready knocked it back and the Canberra Raiders were then born.