NRL expansion review process

[Perth Red]

Nswrl etc seem to have enough problems doing what they are supposed to be doing, I doubt part owning a NRL club is high on their priority list! Also the NRL has total control and can very simply veto any such move. As you said potential conflicts prevents it where it does not for the WArL.

The Western Reds were originally set up as a partnership with warl on the board and that led to a really strong model for grass roots growth in the state. As soon as news ltd moved in and took over the board the whole thing went to sht with many WArL clubs closing down or good people leaving the game disillusioned. If Sage/Elias were given the license it would be a massive wasted opportunity for the growth of the game in the West. We don't want a storm scenario, we want the NRL club to be the driver for growth of all levels of the game. WArL on the board ensures that.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

I know for a fact that if the CRL was to gain control of the Raiders it would most likely be a disaster for RL in and around the ACT as they would undoubtedly cut the CRRL and most of, if not all of the funding that the Raiders group provides to junior RL in the ACT (and not to mention the funding they provide to parts of Queensland, NZ and other parts of NSW as well!).

Can you elaborate on this??

Ive always thought it a shame that Canberra teams wasnt run by the CRL (if only to give the City vs Country jersey a modern relevence; i love those colours).

Having said that though, i dont know much about the relationship between Canberra and the CRL. I know CRL has been great for a lot of other rural NSW areas, what was it that made them so bad for canberra??

 

[The Great Dane]

Nswrl etc seem to have enough problems doing what they are supposed to be doing, I doubt part owning a NRL club is high on their priority list!

It would be high on their list if they thought that they could gain from it.

Also the NRL has total control and can very simply veto any such move. As you said potential conflicts prevents it where it does not for the WArL.

Not if the WARL owns the Perth team they can't, because as soon as they try to veto it the NSWRL for example can simply take them to court and say if it's ok for the WARL then why isn't ok for us and because of the precedence set by the WARL owning the Pirates get the decision overturned by a court of law.

 

[The Great Dane]

Can you elaborate on this??

Ive always thought it a shame that Canberra teams wasnt run by the CRL (if only to give the City vs Country jersey a modern relevence; i love those colours).

ACT players already come under Country anyway, so it wouldn't make any difference to City vs Country. BTW we're proud to come under the Country banner.

What would change the relevance of City vs Country would be to ban ACT born and bred players from playing for NSW, but that will never happen because it's in the NRLs and NSWRLs interests to keep ACT players under the NSW banner and the Queenslanders are to stupid to understand the difference between the ACT and NSW so they haven't made a stink about it yet.

It'd also bring up the pesky point of the possibility of the ACT being able support it's own SOO team which would put a spanner in the works of their cash cow that they're afraid to change.

Having said that though, i dont know much about the relationship between Canberra and the CRL. I know CRL has been great for a lot of other rural NSW areas, what was it that made them so bad for canberra??

Basically for the same reasons that the NSWRL and the CRL are separate entities, the NSWRL couldn't support all of their operations in Sydney and all of the CRLs operations successfully so they had to be two separate organisations to get the best results, the situation between the CRL and the ACT and surrounding regions is basically the same thing,

Basically the CRL isn't in the position to support rugby league in the country and to support it in the ACT so there needs to be a split and a new RL formed, the problem is that for whatever reasons the ARL will not support or fund such a move and that's where the CRRL comes in.

The CRRL (Canberra Region Rugby League) was formed by the Raiders Group and the CRL, the Raiders group provides the majority of the funding, but the CRL provides some as well. They do a pretty good job of organizing the juniors competitions and making sure there're no problems with the seniors as well (apart from the fact that they tend to favor the Blues and always do whats best for the Raiders even when it's not what's best for the kids trying to break into the NRL, BTW this is similar to the types of corruption that governing bodies owning NRL teams would enable).

But because the CRRL aren't recognized as a governing body so they can't make decisions for the region that are in the best interests of the sport whole without the CRLs and Raiders permission and because they're for all intents and purposes owned by the Raiders Group they only do what is in the interests of the Raiders.

Of course the CRL could just stop the CRRL and run RL in the area alone, but if that was to happen they'ed only be willing to give as much funding to the whole of the ACT as they give their other comps to run it's self, which simply isn't enough for RL to be able to compete with the other big sports in the city that would have much, much more funding at their disposal, which inevitably would see the grass roots in and around the ACT reduce enormously, and possibly irreversibly.

So basically RL in the ACT and Southern NSW is for the most part is rudderless, while other sports (particularly Union and Soccer) make advances.

What needs to happen is a new ACTRL (that is as independent of the Raiders Group as possible) needs to be founded and helped funded by the NRL in the short term to govern RL in the ACT and surrounds, but unfortunately I don't think either the NRL or the ARLC see the ACT as important enough to invest the money or time required to change things.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

ACT players already come under Country anyway, so it wouldn't make any difference to City vs Country. BTW we're proud to come under the Country banner.

What would change the relevance of City vs Country would be to ban ACT born and bred players from playing for NSW, but that will never happen because it's in the NRLs and NSWRLs interests to keep ACT players under the NSW banner and the Queenslanders are to stupid to understand the difference between the ACT and NSW so they haven't made a stink about it yet.

It'd also bring up the pesky point of the possibility of the ACT being able support it's own SOO team which would put a spanner in the works of their cash cow that they're afraid to change.

I didnt say that very well....

i meant that, if the CRL had been given the licence for a Canberra-based team, they could have used the Country jersey/colours in the competition.

It would have killed the CvsC concept almost immediately, but its been dying for a while anyway and with this the heritage of the jersey would have been preserved with a simple repurposing.

Plus, that identity would have given the Canberra team the perfect "anti-Sydney" image, positioning themselves as the team for all of rural NSW, rather than just that one little pocket...

Basically for the same reasons that the NSWRL and the CRL are separate entities, the NSWRL couldn't support all of their operations in Sydney and all of the CRLs operations successfully so they had to be two separate organisations to get the best results, the situation between the CRL and the ACT and surrounding regions is basically the same thing,

Basically the CRL isn't in the position to support rugby league in the country and to support it in the ACT so there needs to be a split and a new RL formed, the problem is that for whatever reasons the ARL will not support or fund such a move and that's where the CRRL comes in.

The CRRL (Canberra Region Rugby League) was formed by the Raiders Group and the CRL, the Raiders group provides the majority of the funding, but the CRL provides some as well. They do a pretty good job of organizing the juniors competitions and making sure there're no problems with the seniors as well (apart from the fact that they tend to favor the Blues and always do whats best for the Raiders even when it's not what's best for the kids trying to break into the NRL, BTW this is similar to the types of corruption that governing bodies owning NRL teams would enable).

But because the CRRL aren't recognized as a governing body so they can't make decisions for the region that are in the best interests of the sport whole without the CRLs and Raiders permission and because they're for all intents and purposes owned by the Raiders Group they only do what is in the interests of the Raiders.

Of course the CRL could just stop the CRRL and run RL in the area alone, but if that was to happen they'ed only be willing to give as much funding to the whole of the ACT as they give their other comps to run it's self, which simply isn't enough for RL to be able to compete with the other big sports in the city that would have much, much more funding at their disposal, which inevitably would see the grass roots in and around the ACT reduce enormously, and possibly irreversibly.

So basically RL in the ACT and Southern NSW is for the most part is rudderless, while other sports (particularly Union and Soccer) make advances.

What needs to happen is a new ACTRL (that is as independent of the Raiders Group as possible) needs to be founded and helped funded by the NRL in the short term to govern RL in the ACT and surrounds, but unfortunately I don't think either the NRL or the ARLC see the ACT as important enough to invest the money or time required to change things.

Thanks for the brief. Interesting stuff.

 

[Perth Red]

It would be high on their list if they thought that they could gain from it.



Not if the WARL owns the Perth team they can't, because as soon as they try to veto it the NSWRL for example can simply take them to court and say if it's ok for the WARL then why isn't ok for us and because of the precedence set by the WARL owning the Pirates get the decision overturned by a court of law.

The NRL own the licenses. They can simply make it a condition of the license, and then withdraw funding from the NSWRL, good luck with it in court! Wont happen anyway, the NSWRL would not gain from running a NRL club and the other NSW NRL clubs wouldnt allow it anyway. They are two very different scenarios in two very different states and allowing one does not set a precedent for another.

 

[The Great Dane]

I didnt say that very well....

i meant that, if the CRL had been given the licence for a Canberra-based team, they could have used the Country jersey/colours in the competition.

It would have killed the CvsC concept almost immediately, but its been dying for a while anyway and with this the heritage of the jersey would have been preserved with a simple repurposing.

Plus, that identity would have given the Canberra team the perfect "anti-Sydney" image, positioning themselves as the team for all of rural NSW, rather than just that one little pocket...

And I can tell you right now as a Canberran that lived through that time, that if that had happened it would have kill the club before it got of the ground!

Canberrans have always hated being served NSW's (especially Sydney's) sloppy seconds so to speak, the fact that the Raiders started out in Queanbeyan almost killed them as they weren't seen as being representative of Canberra (I still to this day hear older union fans taunt Raiders supporters by calling them the Queanbeyan Raiders). So as you can imagine having what effectively would have been the country NSW team based in Canberra would have been a massive flop as next to nobody (including myself a Raiders supporter from the start) in Canberra would have stomached it.

You want the perfect "anti-Sydney" image, look no farther then the Brumbies. Every Brumbies fan inside or outside Canberra (including myself) hates Sydney and the Tahs, because of all the privileges they get simply because they are on the other side of the train tracks. They didn't need Country NSW to build that image or foster that hatred and neither do the Raiders.

In fact one of the biggest things that I think the Raiders are missing is that hatred, not only does it create an us against them attitude inside the squad, it galvanizes and cements support.

 

[The Great Dane]

The NRL own the licenses. They can simply make it a condition of the license, and then withdraw funding from the NSWRL, good luck with it in court! Wont happen anyway, the NSWRL would not gain from running a NRL club and the other NSW NRL clubs wouldnt allow it anyway. They are two very different scenarios in two very different states and allowing one does not set a precedent for another.

Maybe, I still think it's a f##king terrible idea.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

And I can tell you right now as a Canberran that lived through that time, that if that had happened it would have kill the club before it got of the ground!

Canberrans have always hated being served NSW's (especially Sydney's) sloppy seconds so to speak, the fact that the Raiders started out in Queanbeyan almost killed them as they weren't seen as being representative of Canberra (I still to this day hear older union fans taunt Raiders supporters by calling them the Queanbeyan Raiders). So as you can imagine having what effectively would have been the country NSW team based in Canberra would have been a massive flop as next to nobody (including myself a Raiders supporter from the start) in Canberra would have stomached it.

You want the perfect "anti-Sydney" image, look no farther then the Brumbies. Every Brumbies fan inside or outside Canberra (including myself) hates Sydney and the Tahs, because of all the privileges they get simply because they are on the other side of the train tracks. They didn't need Country NSW to build that image or foster that hatred and neither do the Raiders.

Fair enough...

I suggest this for love of the CRL rep jersey more so than knowing the mentality of Canberrans.

Might have worked for the Illawarra or Newcastle team or is a new team is introduced into a country NSW area once the inland population grows a bit...

In fact one of the biggest things that I think the Raiders are missing is that hatred, not only does it create an us against them attitude inside the squad, it galvanizes and cements support.

This has always annoyed me about canberra...

The need to create a Manly-like "us vs them" mentality amoungst their fans. I was hoping Ricky could do it (its the one positive he provided for the Blues), but the lethargy is just toxic ATM.

 

[The Great Dane]

This has always annoyed me about canberra...

The need to create a Manly-like "us vs them" mentality amoungst their fans. I was hoping Ricky could do it (its the one positive he provided for the Blues), but the lethargy is just toxic ATM.

It's my opinion that the Raiders Group are all about being as vanilla as possible in an attempt to be as appealing as possible to as many people as possible.

The problem is that you can never please everybody, and in their attempts to please people that they are never going to be able to please they have turned off large groups of people that may be interested in following the Raiders more closely.

In other words I think that they're scared of creating a hardcore culture at the club because they think that it'll turn some mothers away, the thing they don't realize is that the mothers that they trying not to scare off are already not consuming their product (or allowing their children to consume their product) due to the violent nature of the sport that is RL.

So they're trying to please a group they can never hope to please and getting their supporters offside in the process.

 

[pHyR3]

It would be high on their list if they thought that they could gain from it.



Not if the WARL owns the Perth team they can't, because as soon as they try to veto it the NSWRL for example can simply take them to court and say if it's ok for the WARL then why isn't ok for us and because of the precedence set by the WARL owning the Pirates get the decision overturned by a court of law.

hahhaha nah mate.

the NRL will say, okay. go ahead and buy the Wests Tigers. we'll just kick you out of the nrl or stop giving you a free 7 million a year.

NRL has absolute power.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Mostly a dumb article, but it did outline some of the aims of the study...

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/four-nations/is-it-time-for-england-and-pasifika-teams-to-join-the-nrl-20141103-11g0nz.html\

As NRL bosses begin work on a blueprint for expanding the competition to 18 teams, they should look beyond Brisbane and Perth and consider sides from the Pacific nations and England - possibly to be based in those cities.

The NRL is due to make a decision within the next 12 months on whether to expand the premiership in 2017 and Fairfax Media understands officials are currently looking at the structures of existing clubs to devise an ideal model for any new team.

A list of requirements will be drawn up for bid teams to meet and the NRL is expected to decide where it wants clubs to be based before inviting applications.

 

[Perth Red]

Lol @ an english team in the NRL. Geez some hacks have no fricking idea.

 

[The Great Dane]

Lol @ an english team in the NRL. Geez some hacks have no fricking idea.

Not saying that there should be an English team in the NRL, but the feasibility of teams in cities all over the world should be investigated constantly alone with the NRL's market penetration and corporate support in said cities.

If for example an opportunity arises for the NRL to penetrate the market in (insert large city here) and maybe eventually place a team in the city, then the NRL really needs to be aware of it as soon as possible.

Investigating every opportunity is good practice, as long as nobody gets carried away and jumps the gun like the NFL seems to be about to do in London.

 

[DC_fan]

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/f...03-11g0nz.html\

Quote:
As NRL bosses begin work on a blueprint for expanding the competition to 18 teams, they should look beyond Brisbane and Perth and consider sides from the Pacific nations and England - possibly to be based in those [URL="http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?t=435167&page=19#"]cities .

The NRL is due to make a decision within the next 12 months on whether to expand the premiership in 2017 and Fairfax Media understands officials are currently looking at the structures of existing clubs to devise an ideal model for any new team.

A list of requirements will be drawn up for bid teams to meet and the NRL is expected to decide where it wants clubs to be based before inviting applications.


[/URL]

The idea of bringing in teams from outside of Australia is not such a stupid idea. What is stupid is suggesting a team from England.

I have for sometime been pushing for NRL expansion in to Asia. That part of the world is real growth area and the NRL should be looking to push our game in to that area.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Asia would actually be a good idea...

Even if RL was just a niche sport, thats still a lot of people. Plus, timezones and all that.

 

[Perth Red]

Singapore could well be a natural place. They've just been snubbed for S18, they have a lovely new stadium, they have a good ex pat population, Singapore RL has just been born, "derby" game for WA!, stacks of money there. If there was any asian city that could host a NRL club it would be there you'd think. But seeing as we cant get a $100k to tassie RL to keep going there is little hope of RL ever thinking that far outside the box!

 

[The Great Dane]

Singapore could well be a natural place. They've just been snubbed for S18, they have a lovely new stadium, they have a good ex pat population, Singapore RL has just been born, "derby" game for WA!, stacks of money there. If there was any asian city that could host a NRL club it would be there you'd think. But seeing as we cant get a $100k to tassie RL to keep going there is little hope of RL ever thinking that far outside the box!

I can think of a few company's in Hong Kong that might be interested in supporting (and possibly owning) a club as a segway into the Australian and NZ markets. Similar to how Huawei used sponsorship of the Raiders and Phoenix as a way into ours markets when they were contending with opposition from both countries respective governments.

And I remember reading in an article that one of the main groups pushing the Singapore Super Rugby bid was supposedly a huge company based in Singapore.

But that's a double edged sword because as soon as the team has served it's purpose said companies might be inclined to stop funding/supporting them. But then again Huawei didn't drop us as soon as we'd served our purpose so you never know.

BTW, the Singapore Super Rugby bid was to be a combined PIs team that was only going to be based in Singapore because none of the nations that this team was supposed to represent had the facilities to support the club.

Though I understand why such a club would be based in a city like Singapore, personally I think it kind of negates the point of the Pacific Islands team if it doesn't play any game in the Islands it's supposed to represent, but I still thought it was an interesting idea to bring up.

 

[Perth Red]

Kind of makes sense since Singapore couldnt produce any players for union they'd have to get them from somewhere and a team with jnr nurseries in Samoa, Fiji, Tonga etc would give a pathway to development in those countries even if S18 wasnt actually played there. In a similair way I would love for a new Perth team to link up with PNG and develop a strong relationship basing PNG jnrs in perth and giving a pathway to NRL for PNG through Perth. Solves the ltd jnrs we have and gives PNG a club to get behind. The WC Pirates playing in PNG colours with PNG flag on the sleeve and taking games to PNG would be a smart move. We could have a WA membership and a PNG membership (different prices obviously), wed have the biggest membership in NRL in year 1!

If NRL gave us better support we could be doing it now, holding a SG ball try out in PNG then bringing over 3-4 of the best PNG U18's to play in the Pirates SG Ball team. At moment we usually have 3-4 NZ or East coast jnrs int he squad, just swap them for PNG jnrs. NRL to pay ofr billeting, travel costs etc. The kids could be learning a trade whilst here as well that would help them if they dont make grade.

Lots of WA mining companies have interests in PNG as well, nice link up potential to get them involved in RL.

 

[joshreading]

Whilst the idea of an English Club in the NRL is pretty silly I do think that Super League in Europe would do well to become closer to the NRL. Creating atleast informal 'Global' divisions with the World Club Championship being standard in the ebb and flow of Professional RL will be important in what is an increasingly globalised context.

This may require some co-ordination so far as branding and cross promotion - ie. The NRL needs to use it's Aussie position to promote the Super League comp and vice versa, rather than see each other as competitors. Rugby Union in particular is the competitor and soccer to a lessor extent.

Investors do now want to know they can aim for Global Profile not simply local. Whilst it may seem ridiculous in the present context if European Super League is to hope for investment like soccer receives and expansion one day into contexts like Italy and Russia it must come with some promise of global profile. There are easily enough Russian Billionaires that could be wooed to financially back a Super League Club given they don't believe they are participating in a dinky localised sport. RL is actually not a dinky localised sport but has professional clubs in atleast 4 countries with promise in a number of other nearby countries.

The same is the case for Asian investors and the NRL, if one is able to tell them, the club they sponsor / financially support can expose their brand in Australia, New Zealand, England, France plus other areas we increase the potential for such investment.

Singaporeans are really no more into Rugby Union than League (in a mass sense), Union however does provide an avenue for Global profile with areas such as Singapore desire.