NRL expansion review process

[Perth Red]

Too many teams as is, not enough talent to go around.

More is not necessarily better.

Maybe but the argument is you address this through growing the game at a jnr level and putting much more effort into developing elite pathways in places with plenty of raw talent waiting to be developed ie PI, NZ and png

Here's a team made up from players who have joined the NRL in last couple of years from outside the NRL or traditional areas

1 Sam Tomkins
2 pat Richards
3 Curtis Rona
4 sbw
5 semi radrada
6 benji Marshall
7 Michael Dobson
8 George burgess
9
10 James graham
11 Cory Patterson
12 Sam moa
13 Sam burgess

There's plenty of talent in SL, both ex NRL and English/French, not to mention png and NZ where we could be doing so much more and of course development in Vic, wa and nt which is still an afterthought for the NRL. Where there is a will there is a way.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Too many teams as is, not enough talent to go around.

More is not necessarily better.

Ive never liked this arguement....

We accept the standard that is given to us as long as it is the best we know. NSWRL back in 1908 was a lower standard than reserve grade is now, but it was the best league that the locals had access to so it didnt matter.

Today, NRL miss out on heap of young athletes that chose other sports, but no one batts an eye.

If the NRL was to add new teams, the quality may suffer, but no one could actually know. The only people that would complain are the ones blinded by nostalgia...

 

[Perth Red]

plus I am not sure it holds much water. If the theory that more teams = a more diluted talent pool then the opposite should be true ie less teams = more talent and better more equal outcomes. However if we look at SOO which is a two team comp made up of the best players in the NRL (mostly) yet some games are not that great and in terms of results there has been plenty of one sided games and long winning runs.

 

[Diesel]

We found out that there was never enough talent for 20 teams in '95-96 and then during the split year we had 22 teams, then dropped down to 14 three years later. I don't remember the quality being any better at 14 teams in 2000-2001 than it was in 2007 when the Titans came in and we had 16 teams again. The NRL could go to 18 without too many issues but teams 17 & 18 would need to come in a year apart anymore expansion areas after 18 teams would have to be relocations or licenses will not be renewed if clubs are not sustainable

 

[CC_Roosters]

We found out that there was never enough talent for 20 teams in '95-96 and then during the split year we had 22 teams, then dropped down to 14 three years later. I don't remember the quality being any better at 14 teams in 2000-2001 than it was in 2007 when the Titans came in and we had 16 teams again. The NRL could go to 18 without too many issues but teams 17 & 18 would need to come in a year apart anymore expansion areas after 18 teams would have to be relocations or licenses will not be renewed if clubs are not sustainable

Well said I agree 100%

 

[Dogs Of War]

We found out that there was never enough talent for 20 teams in '95-96 and then during the split year we had 22 teams, then dropped down to 14 three years later. I don't remember the quality being any better at 14 teams in 2000-2001 than it was in 2007 when the Titans came in and we had 16 teams again. The NRL could go to 18 without too many issues but teams 17 & 18 would need to come in a year apart anymore expansion areas after 18 teams would have to be relocations or licenses will not be renewed if clubs are not sustainable

I think at 14 teams, the problem was that we actually lost a generation of players coming through. Thats what made the talent level so bad. Super League war really hurt the game in lots of area's, not just at a NRL level.

 

[reanimate]

I don't think lack of talent should ever be a consideration when it comes to the decision as to whether to expand or not. For a start, the region we're expanding into will begin to produce talent at an increased rate once it has an NRL team, secondly, there's so many other untapped avenues when it comes to talent that we should have no problem filling new teams with talent. E.g. I've said it before, but there'd be a stack of South African Union players that would be well suited to RL, you could sign up a bunch of them that are up-and-comers, or ones that have potential but are stuck in lower leagues, and bring them over for reasonable prices. Add to that more South Island NZ talent, more scouting in the Pacific Islands, more grassroots initiatives both here and in NZ and talent shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Stagger Lee]

I can't see forced relocation happening. The only solution / option would be to offer a massive financial offering to a club to relocate.

Either way I hope the NRL moves soon. We need to have another team in Queensland AND a team in Perth ASAP and certainly before the next TV deal is started.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

I can't see forced relocation happening. The only solution / option would be to offer a massive financial offering to a club to relocate.

Either way I hope the NRL moves soon. We need to have another team in Queensland AND a team in Perth ASAP and certainly before the next TV deal is started.

I doubt theyd PUSH anyone, but i can see a "carrot" working in this situation and i bet they know that.

I can, however, see them standing back and letting a team fall over, taking control of the franchise and moving them that way.

We know the ARLC is looking to get people onto as many club boards as they can. And with teams like the Sharks or Tigers, these brands would still be valuble in new markets (Welligton, Perth, Adelaide, ect), so its unlikely they would let a team fall over then create a new one somewhere else.

It all comes down to whether they want 9 teams in Sydney....

 

[oikee]

Yes, we dont need new clubs, we do and we dont. 16 teams works really well. By adding any more teams will only put the code as a whole under pressure, like the AFL. Finding players, trying to keep the interest up with so many clubs that a few will always struggle, only puts pressure on the code as a whole.

Having said that, i think our code can expand to 18 clubs if we do this right.
Perth has to enter, no more mucking around not being national.
Brisbane really needs 3 teams, but at the very least, and for now, two will have to do.
As i pointed out the other day, a new Brisbane club will introduce ?6 new derbies, ? two new teams would bring a extra 15 or more derbies to the Queensland teams.
That is big business right their.

Here is my new idea. You know how we have poor crowds due to playing away teams away from your heartland.
Not teams outside Sydney, (well yes, Canberra, but most other teams like Cows, Melbourne, Warriors and Newcastle can hold their own) so not teams outside Sydney, but the Sydney teams that struggle with away crowds really need to aligne themselves to another state or country or city.

Bare with me. Just imagine the Sharkies joining with Adelaide. So they play 7 games at the Sharks venue, and 5 games in Adelaide.
Same as the Titans, i brought this up today, they need to aligne themselves with NZ, lets say Wellington.
Again, maybe 7 games at home, the big game blockbusters, and 5 games at wellington. Both cities share the club evenly.
This straight off gains alot more support, it also adds teams to areas that want a team but probably would struggle with a start up team.
The Titans huge area that has one of the largest Polynesian expats in our nation is another reason for going down this path. Once you link them, they will find it easier to support, plus they get the dibs on the best players from these areas.

So, by doing this we kill many birds, with very few stones.
Manly might want to reconnect to the QLD sunshine coast. It is a perfect fit for them. They can take games against QLD teams to the sunny coast.
I have taken to killing birds, many birds with one stone. It is time to step away from the box. Think smart.

 

[oikee]

I doubt theyd PUSH anyone, but i can see a "carrot" working in this situation and i bet they know that.

I can, however, see them standing back and letting a team fall over, taking control of the franchise and moving them that way.

We know the ARLC is looking to get people onto as many club boards as they can. And with teams like the Sharks or Tigers, these brands would still be valuble in new markets (Welligton, Perth, Adelaide, ect), so its unlikely they would let a team fall over then create a new one somewhere else.

It all comes down to whether they want 9 teams in Sydney....

Yes, as i explained above, keep the nine teams in Sydney, but expand their club to include other areas. As i explained above.
The worst thing we can do now is try to relocate or move a club or shut down a club. It does not work, it never works, """"so just make the club bigger""". Join with another city that does not have a club, let that city hold games as well. You know it makes sense. I wonder if we are not headed down that path already, clubs taking games to other areas.

 

[flippikat]

Yes, as i explained above, keep the nine teams in Sydney, but expand their club to include other areas. As i explained above.
The worst thing we can do now is try to relocate or move a club or shut down a club. It does not work, it never works, """"so just make the club bigger""". Join with another city that does not have a club, let that city hold games as well. You know it makes sense. I wonder if we are not headed down that path already, clubs taking games to other areas.

That's just the thing - the smart clubs are already looking at "second homes"

The problem at the moment is that there's no co-ordination from the NRL.. for instance Souths can take home games to Perth and Cairns this year which kinda dilutes the idea. I think a "Home away from home" idea with 2 different venues makes more sense if the geography makes sense - for instance, if the Storm took one home game a year to somewhere else in Victoria and one home game to Tasmania - they then become a Victoria/Tasmania "regional" team in a sense.

What if the NRL approved this shifting of home games only on the condition that a club can only play "home away from home" games in one place each season? (Preferably in multi-year deals that allow the club to cultivate the region as a supporter base.)

There are some decent population centres in places where RL is quite well established (Toowoomba, Cairns, Hamilton, Wellington, Christchurch) as well as non-traditional centres (Perth, Adelaide, Tasmania, hell.. even Geelong).

 

[newman]

I doubt they would force anything, but i can see them letting a team up to fall over and keeping the franchise afloat by moving them to a new location.

Sure, they are paying Cronullas debts at the moment, but you could argue that they just dont want to relocate them now before the review and do it badly. Once the review is finished, they should have the processes and mechanisms in place to do it effectively.

If they continue paying off Cronulla's debts in 2015/16, then youll know for sure im wrong...

The NRL are not paying the sharks debts. Where did you come up with that? The Sharks have a modest debt of 3 mill and that has been refinanced recently, by the club, with a private financier at no interest. The sharks receive no hand outs from the NRL and our board and executive are completely independent to the NRL. The NRL installed Bruno Cullen after the ASADA announcement last year to look over the books, he was satisfied and left shortly after.

Cronulla won't fold, merge or relocate. Get it out of your head.

 

[DC_fan]

You only have to be looking at the Canberra v Cowboys game to realise we do not have the depth to cover more then 16 teams.

So if we are bring new teams in to the competition you would have to cut other teams.

I read suggestions here that teams should spread themselves over a number of areas. As a Souths fan and season ticket holder I want all Rabbitohs games played here in Sydney. I do not like the idea of them playing home games in Perth and Cairns.

If you want to alienate fans then take some of their home games away from them.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

The NRL are not paying the sharks debts. Where did you come up with that? The Sharks have a modest debt of 3 mill and that has been refinanced recently, by the club, with a private financier at no interest. The sharks receive no hand outs from the NRL and our board and executive are completely independent to the NRL. The NRL installed Bruno Cullen after the ASADA announcement last year to look over the books, he was satisfied and left shortly after.

Cronulla won't fold, merge or relocate. Get it out of your head.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/sharks-hit-up-nrl-for-cash-if-club-implodes-20130724-2qjve.html

This was what i had in mind, i just got the details wrong.

 

[newman]

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/sharks-hit-up-nrl-for-cash-if-club-implodes-20130724-2qjve.html

This was what i had in mind, i just got the details wrong.

Pretty big stretch from an article saying the club in a worst case scenario MIGHT ask for money to what you said.

I'll reiterate that the sharks won't merge/relocate or fold; and I hope that pisses you off.

 

[goodplayer]

Pretty big stretch from an article saying the club in a worst case scenario MIGHT ask for money to what you said.

I'll reiterate that the sharks won't merge/relocate or fold; and I hope that pisses you off.

my idea is the perth tigersharks ;-)

 

[goodplayer]

I can't see forced relocation happening. The only solution / option would be to offer a massive financial offering to a club to relocate.

Either way I hope the NRL moves soon. We need to have another team in Queensland AND a team in Perth ASAP and certainly before the next TV deal is started.

I don't think lack of talent should ever be a consideration when it comes to the decision as to whether to expand or not. For a start, the region we're expanding into will begin to produce talent at an increased rate once it has an NRL team, secondly, there's so many other untapped avenues when it comes to talent that we should have no problem filling new teams with talent. E.g. I've said it before, but there'd be a stack of South African Union players that would be well suited to RL, you could sign up a bunch of them that are up-and-comers, or ones that have potential but are stuck in lower leagues, and bring them over for reasonable prices. Add to that more South Island NZ talent, more scouting in the Pacific Islands, more grassroots initiatives both here and in NZ and talent shouldn't be a problem.

I doubt theyd PUSH anyone, but i can see a "carrot" working in this situation and i bet they know that.

I can, however, see them standing back and letting a team fall over, taking control of the franchise and moving them that way.

We know the ARLC is looking to get people onto as many club boards as they can. And with teams like the Sharks or Tigers, these brands would still be valuble in new markets (Welligton, Perth, Adelaide, ect), so its unlikely they would let a team fall over then create a new one somewhere else.

It all comes down to whether they want 9 teams in Sydney....

south african players get banned by the sa union . nrl already tried there

nrl has a relocation carrot

about $8 million
been offered for years .

take the the game to new citys , the players will come

rabbits roosters merge

perth tigersharks

adelaide bulldogs

central coast bears

wellinton orcas

2nd brisbane team

ok

 

[Perth Red]

If you want to alienate fans then take some of their home games away from them.

Souths are playing 18 games in nsw this season, how many games do you want? Once they sort out centralised stadiums and reciprocal membership admission you are laughing, souths taking 2 games out of nsw is no hardship for you.

 

[The Great Dane]

south african players get banned by the sa union . nrl already tried there

I'm almost certain that the SARU has stopped banning players that go to RL, then again there hasn't been a notable South African convert to RL in decades.

But if they are still banning players, that sort of influence can be undermined given time and a truckload of cash.

The trick is to poach in a concerted and precise way, that means that the NRL and the clubs would have to be on the same page and they would have to work together.

The best way to do it in my opinion would be for the NRL to allow a complete salary cap exemption for all South African RU players that play in the Currie Cup and/or the Super 15, and then on top of that start using their new central contracting abilities to start poaching players of value to the NRL it's self, simply by offering players more and more money until they can't refuse the offer.