NRL expansion review process

[Perth Red]

The AFL has just as many clubs they are supporting as the NRL if not more -Suns, Swans, GWS, Lions , Kangaroos, Bulldogs, Demons are all getting handouts in one form or another.

Besides, the TV networks and other media are paying the $1.3 Billion for this combination if teams we have at the moment.

As I said afl is able to prop up these clubs AND expand significantly by taking money off rich clubs and giving smaller grants to rich clubs and more money to poor clubs. NRL does not have this luxury.

Yes and no, they are fundamentally paying for 8 games a week of NRL to cover. The team make up has little consideration if audience is not affected.

 

[BuffaloRules]

Agree, some teams should never have been introduce. Agree in general with you second statement, however there are some teams that have very little supporter value outside of their current catchment. I would accept that WTs probably do, but Sharks I don't believe it.

You would accept the WT do?

They are the 2nd best supported club crowd wise in Sydney over the past 10 years after the Dogs.

 

[BuffaloRules]

As I said afl is able to prop up these clubs AND expand significantly by taking money off rich clubs and giving smaller grants to rich clubs and more money to poor clubs. NRL does not have this luxury.

Yes and no, they are fundamentally paying for 8 games a week of NRL to cover. The team make up has little consideration if audience is not affected.

How do you know the audience won't be affected if they cut Sydney teams?

Ever noticed the teams Nine wants to show each week into Sydney?

Surprisingly they aren't the out of towners.

Less Sydney teams, less Sydney derbies.


Why didn't you respond on my point about what Gyngel said about expansion the last time?

 

[Perth Red]

Sharks are running second last, playing like crap and still attracted a crowd of 13000 last night.

Sharks are averaging 12500 yet competition front runners, the Sea Eagles are averaging 11500.

Goodbye Sea Eagles?

2 Sydney clubs drawing a crowd of 13k is hardly justification! Even considering how terrible the sharks club is.

Manly and cronulla are undoubtably the two weakest Sydney clubs. Manly are only relevant as they have managed to keep a good squad together. Did you see the cronulla jersey last night? They have no sponsors! Brookvale is not a NRL standard stadium. At least the other 7 clubs have potential to be much bigger and better.

If I was tiering I would say:
Clubs performing well
Souths and bulldogs
Clubs doing ok or with potential to be top tier
Roosters, eels
Clubs that if run well will be decent mid size clubs
Tigers, panthers, st's
Clubs that it is hard to see ever being more than minor
Sharks, manly

 

[KiamaSaint]

You would accept the WT do?

They are the 2nd best supported club in Sydney over the past 10 years after the Dogs.

On what statistics? Membership? Crowd figures? Channel 9 lovefest? I am not disputing by the way but what do you base that claim on?

WT is an interesting case. They have such a split in supporter base these days that I wonder if a relocation would disenfranchise their fans. No doubt it would the hardcore fans and I am happy to be set straight but I am just putting it out there.

 

[KiamaSaint]

Sharks are running second last, playing like crap and still attracted a crowd of 13000 last night.

Sharks are averaging 12500 yet competition front runners, the Sea Eagles are averaging 11500.

Goodbye Sea Eagles?

The Sharks should go. It's sad but it wouldn't be a big loss to the game.

The Sea Eagles should be playing half their games on the Central Coast to build their supporter base.

 

[BuffaloRules]

On what statistics? Membership? Crowd figures? Channel 9 lovefest? I am not disputing by the way but what do you base that claim on?

WT is an interesting case. They have such a split in supporter base these days that I wonder if a relocation would disenfranchise their fans. No doubt it would the hardcore fans and I am happy to be set straight but I am just putting it out there.

Crowds.

 

[Perth Red]

If you really think that's the number then you've got no idea. The people who attend matches or who become members represent only a tiny fraction of the rugby league support base. Some of these clubs have followings approaching half a million nationwide, on par with AFL teams. Hence why they can take matches to Perth and have local supporters. You're not just killing some made up 20k

What evidence do you have for 1/2millon fans a club? I can see no measurable that would prove this to be anything more than a made up number. If that was true TV audiences would be 2-4 million a game as you would have 1million for the 2 clubs plus casual viewers. The only measurable we have is audience, crowds and members. And none of them suggest anything much more than I said.

 

[elbusto]

2 Sydney clubs drawing a crowd of 13k is hardly justification! Even considering how terrible the sharks club is.

Manly and cronulla are undoubtably the two weakest Sydney clubs. Manly are only relevant as they have managed to keep a good squad together. Did you see the cronulla jersey last night? They have no sponsors! Brookvale is not a NRL standard stadium. At least the other 7 clubs have potential to be much bigger and better.

If I was tiering I would say:
Clubs performing well
Souths and bulldogs
Clubs doing ok or with potential to be top tier
Roosters, eels
Clubs that if run well will be decent mid size clubs
Tigers, panthers, st's
Clubs that it is hard to see ever being more than minor
Sharks, manly

You missed my point. Another correspondent suggested the Sharks be booted. I was merely observing that the Sharks are outdrawing Manly who are running first.
I do not believe any Club should go. You do because you want a Perth franchise in.
The Sharks have had 5 million dollars worth of sponsorship this year without a major sponsor.
They have a strong local comp, they own their own ground and it is attached to their Leagues Club.
The area is fantastic and has huge potential - the Development will take the Sharks to a new level.. Removing the Sharks would be super dumb.
Removing Manly makes the same amount of nonsense.
Manly are the only Club over the bridge. Like the Sharks, they have massive potential.
Like nearly every professional football club in Australia, the Sharks and Sea Eagles just need to get a decent business focus and plan.
And yes - I hate Manly.

 

[KiamaSaint]

Crowds.

Thanks, that is an impressive stat, particularly given they are playing out of so many grounds. Again, would sufficient fans be disenfranchised with a move? Probably but it is worth asking the question.

 

[reanimate]

Clubs that it is hard to see ever being more than minor
Sharks, manly

Manly has big potential if Brookvale gets upgraded and the North Shore gets sorted out, i.e. if the Bears bid formally gets turned down and Manly is allowed into the area, Cronulla doesn't have that same potential. A North Shore + Northern Beaches supporter base plus an upgraded Brookvale would make for a pretty damn strong NRL club.

 

[elbusto]

The Sharks should go. It's sad but it wouldn't be a big loss to the game.

The Sea Eagles should be playing half their games on the Central Coast to build their supporter base.

What a load of nonsense! They already cover the North Shore and a million people. Their crowds are appalling.

 

[BuffaloRules]

Thanks, that is an impressive stat, particularly given they are playing out of so many grounds. Again, would sufficient fans be disenfranchised with a move? Probably but it is worth asking the question.

Couldn't the same many grounds argument be made for your club?

And we both agree that the Dragons have more fans in QLD.

 

[KiamaSaint]

What a load of nonsense! They already cover the North Shore and a million people. Their crowds are appalling.

Ok, I take your word for it.

So contribute to the discussion. Is 9 teams in Sydney ok? Should teams be propped up? For how long? Should they be left to fall over or forced to be relocated? Who should be relocated, merged, etc?

 

[KiamaSaint]

Couldn't the same many grounds argument be made for your club?

And we both agree that the Dragons have more fans in QLD.

We have supporter clubs in NZ, Perth, Melbourne and Germany as well, doesn't mean we should play out of Berlin.

Yes the same could be made for my club particularly with the best stadium policy, whatever that means however I think it applies to the Tigers more. I think their home bases are more disconnected then Win and Jubilee.

 

[elbusto]

Ok, I take your word for it.

So contribute to the discussion. Is 9 teams in Sydney ok? Should teams be propped up? For how long? Should they be left to fall over or forced to be relocated? Who should be relocated, merged, etc?

They are your questions. Answer them yourself. Include the Saints in that as they are a financial basket case. Throw 'em out I say!

 

[BuffaloRules]

We have supporter clubs in NZ, Perth, Melbourne and Germany as well, doesn't mean we should play out of Berlin.

Yes the same could be made for my club particularly with the best stadium policy, whatever that means however I think it applies to the Tigers more. I think their home bases are more disconnected then Win and Jubilee.

And yet the Tigers still get bigger home crowds on the back of less success on the field.

Go figure.

Imagine how big their crowds might be if they could lead. the comp for the better part of three years like Dragons 2009-11.

 

[elbusto]

We have supporter clubs in NZ, Perth, Melbourne and Germany as well, doesn't mean we should play out of Berlin.

Yes the same could be made for my club particularly with the best stadium policy, whatever that means however I think it applies to the Tigers more. I think their home bases are more disconnected then Win and Jubilee.

The fan connection at WIN and Jubilee? Are you serious? Crowds there are absolute crap!

 

[KiamaSaint]

They are your questions. Answer them yourself. Include the Saints in that as they are a financial basket case. Throw 'em out I say!

I put what I thought out there pages ago. I am happy to quote for you again if you can't find it.

If you are prepared to add constructively to the discussion by answering the questions aren't you simply a troll? They are reasonable questions given the thread.

 

[KiamaSaint]

And yet the Tigers still get bigger home crowds on the back of less success on the field.

Go figure.

Imagine how big their crowds might be if they could lead. the comp for the better part of three years like Dragons 2009-11.

The fan connection at WIN and Jubilee? Are you serious? Crowds there are absolute crap!

Whatever makes you sleep at night, again why not add to the discussion by suggesting what the comp should look like in the future.