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NRL faces major turmoil as clubs threaten breakaway league

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,850
Seems nothing much has changed in the few days I've been away,
NRL clubs want a lot more money and happy to drag the game through the mud to get it
ARLC have screwed up negotiations and now look dumb
Grassroots needs more. Does anyone know what this grassroots plan to spend $100mill,actually is?
Somehow NRL needs $25mill a year to run a website I suspect Telstra spent $250k on
Club spending (and losses) is through the roof and they need more money to keep spending more on stuff
Gould is slating the running of the NRL despite his poor performance running a club
Now Melbournes extra payment grant Is set to run out they are desperate for a bigger base grant and as leading the dissent
Despite NRL annual reports showing increased participation apparently player numbers are falling

Missed anything?

No sport fcks itself over as well as rugby league
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,850
I know the 'evil nsw clubs' get blamed for a lot of things, but wasn't the last lot of expansion down to the nswrl and the old nsw establishmet? Cowboys, warriors, reds and crushers were brought in by these old evil nsw establishment, with melbourbe and Adelaide teams on the cards? Wasn't the original plan, before super league sprung up, was for the poorer badly run sydney clubs to die natural deaths or merge? Something like 6 sydney clubs was the target? But superleague, with a lot of Queenslanders, stuffed those plans up? So when all the damage was done, half the expansion teams had gone bust and rugby league needed to hang on to every single rusted on fan it could. That's how we ended up with a 14 team comp with 9 nsw teams. So much damaged had been done that we couldn't lose all the fans from any of those 9 clubs go. In fact they ended up letting souths back in. It's from the starting point of those 14 clubs that we started to rebuild. People wanting to watch those 14 clubs led to more money into the game, mean we stayed off the union threat of the early 2000s. Those 14 clubs (now 16) is how the nrl makes the majority of its money. Yet those clubs, especially the nsw clubs are blaimed for no growth. I still haven't seen a link from any nrl club boss saying they refuse any expansion plans for the nrl. On the contrary you see a guy like Gus Gould, supposedly from this old nsw establishment' say repeatedly he'd like a 2nd Brisbane team and a perth team.

Whilst they don't say never, they all say not now. Which is convenient, tomorrow never comes.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,850
You got that right, now make an argument out of it. Im not even trying to defeat arguments and #winning, but passive aggression is the sign of failure. These clubs need a firecraker up their butts, dude.

Remember Politis? Yeah - used car salesman basically. Bottom rung billionaire. Bart: a fly-in over-nighter...

Funny thing is - all these guys are just perpetuating the same failure-rific tactics that have hung around the game like a bad smell since forever in NSW.

Do they sit round the tables chanting "YOU are the money..... YOU!!!! ARE. THE. MONEEEEY!"

Right....now goto the leagues club to get your hand out, pal.....

Because its not coming from tickets....or sponsors? Noo.... its hand out's 24/7 and NRL grants please.

__

I really do want them getting 100-110% of the cap and not much else. But 100% even better, and any liscence condition the NRL want.

I think people are over these NSW clubs and their ridiculous ideology

When you read these comments from someone like Gould you know clubs are always going to struggle no matter how much money the NRL,gives them.

“Clubs are still operating at a loss,” he declared.

“Other than the Broncos and maybe one other, most football clubs lose money. We need to get to a sustainable model where we are making money.

“Football is very expensive these days. We live beyond our means in a lot of respects but you need to do that to compete. If you’re not competing then your business model falls apart very quickly. The temptation to keep upgrading and extend yourself financially is always there to keep up with the bigger and better clubs.”

http://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl...s/news-story/f588016c6839f7f995dfec6c056478e3
 

Von Hipper

Juniors
Messages
178
Yea i was replying to his completely idiotic idea that bush clubs/leagues shoulder only be for under 25 players, which would kill off bush teams, lose a valuable sourced of talented players and drive people away from the game

It's hard maybe to convey. I'd rather do what the ARLC and nrl would like, then you, for now.
 

Von Hipper

Juniors
Messages
178
Where do you think the nrl gets its money from?

And a ridiculous nsw ideology? I don't know if you've noticed, but 3 clubs from Queensland, 1 from vic, 1 from the ACT and one from New Zealand are also calling for Grant's departure and the promised %130

Bunk point.
Grant can go. Everyone agrees it's about the money anyway. This nonsense about Grant is just that nonsense.

The nsw ideology is lacking. Clearly! They've admitted as much in all the papers. The game in nsw is on the nose. So much so that we're talking about diluting qld teams to pay for nsw teams. That's fine.

The clubs should not get more than 100℅. No other sport does that. Not even Super rich AFL.

The nrl clubs without so much as a cent think they should get even more.

Who's the silly one here? You, you bought into their ideology. So tell me why Christianity should replace Islam? Or ford is better than Holden?

Don't buy into that stuff. The ARLC did and its paying the price, beaten over the head by people like you, who bought the ideology. Unless you're a club working person, you're kidding yourself. Even then, you would be

There is no place for ideology in nrl governance.
 

Von Hipper

Juniors
Messages
178
I know the 'evil nsw clubs' get blamed for a lot of things, but wasn't the last lot of expansion down to the nswrl and the old nsw establishmet? Cowboys, warriors, reds and crushers were brought in by these old evil nsw establishment, with melbourbe and Adelaide teams on the cards? Wasn't the original plan, before super league sprung up, was for the poorer badly run sydney clubs to die natural deaths or merge? Something like 6 sydney clubs was the target? But superleague, with a lot of Queenslanders, stuffed those plans up? So when all the damage was done, half the expansion teams had gone bust and rugby league needed to hang on to every single rusted on fan it could. That's how we ended up with a 14 team comp with 9 nsw teams. So much damaged had been done that we couldn't lose all the fans from any of those 9 clubs go. In fact they ended up letting souths back in. It's from the starting point of those 14 clubs that we started to rebuild. People wanting to watch those 14 clubs led to more money into the game, mean we stayed off the union threat of the early 2000s. Those 14 clubs (now 16) is how the nrl makes the majority of its money. Yet those clubs, especially the nsw clubs are blaimed for no growth. I still haven't seen a link from any nrl club boss saying they refuse any expansion plans for the nrl. On the contrary you see a guy like Gus Gould, supposedly from this old nsw establishment' say repeatedly he'd like a 2nd Brisbane team and a perth team.

I thought your post here was absolutely excellent.

They lost their way. They bought into the ideology of nsw club superiority because once they saw what expansion meant for them, they freaked out. They played catch-up a lot, now they don't want to have potentially better placed clubs until they shore up their position.

Don't worry, the Broncos swollowed the koolaid the most.

Look at Italy and Europe, they say the best government is the one that gives you what you want. It's also the worst. The Italian system is equal so nothing gets done without a lil bita curruption.... They've had a new president, who's powers are seriously diluted, on average one a year for decades.

The ARLC is fighting such a tide from one vocal section. It's insidious. And yet they should be held to account, but the clubs don't want to stop there, they want to tear it down...
Myopic at best, pathetic at worst.

Im currently working on something, read: thinking, called the Eternal Interregnum. It would include a populist, club and members council vote that is officially considered at board level, for directional consideration. An interrgum assumes no single king or power block is to return or be present. It's a gathering of Nobles

I hope to glean from it at worst how peasant power is utterly worthless in the ruthless corporate world. It could mean the clubs are kept even further away from decision making at ARLC level.

Nobles are glorified peasants. Think about it. But of course we should aim for professionalism in practice and it should function essentially like a Commonwealth. Introduce corporate structure though and you have a slightly modified commission that may just be able to appoint former club people like in AFL. Maybe they can limit that via constitution...

They should go for that. Beats Italy. I don't like how Gurr says it though....I didn't before, don't now. They should make one exception for one person and/or forward protect it from the disease...


Real power, like a modern functioning democracy, which the nrl still doesn't have due to the one track mainstream media reporting sometimes, absorbs dissidents but maintains it's path.

This is why they need that media department up and running at a greater capacity, and their digital strategy.

In that stability comes much progress and trade. Wealth even. But I have always agreed the original constitution was flawed, because Rugby League didn't really make it. Putting down revolts causes much regression and diverts forward momentum.

But you can read into this I think the commission has done a tremendous job and they don't deserve this to happen in this way.

After this the club voting power needs further dilution. Maybe a 10 man board/something to skewer agency to the top.

Gurr:. http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...ives-onto-arl-commission-20161204-gt3ni7.html

And they meet to resolve impasse

http://m.nrl.com/statement-regarding-club-funding-discussions/tabid/10874/newsid/102848/default.aspx

So, I think the ARLC mainly keeps adapting pretty quickly, they don't really keep everyone Super happy, their succession plan is unknown, they get broad scopes but the clubs want more club-scope, they think long term.. The ARLC uses consultancy when they need to. The ARLC is good with the revenue generally. Their biggest expense are badly run clubs.

Just why these badly run clubs need to not wait and be on the board now, is? I am trying to think of a reason.

Generally the best thing to do and its simple, is choosing things that make more money and more popularity. I think in the circumstances the ARLC are doing very well.
>>>>
What I'd do is first get rid of over protective independence laws, make a club assembly an official non executive extension of the ARLC, and dilute club voting rights further for their own good, to move that effect over to the official body. The clubs need moderate and considered opinions as well as closer ties to the NRL admin.

Making more money and generating popularity is not meant to be that hard
Reasoning, self explanatory, but beyond what we know technology is going to change governance procedures/norms before long, may as well jump the curve. And the clubs have good men in them plus they complain about pre legislation and avenues.

They want much of the same kinds of things don't they, they just want more consensus. So it's a quasi house of representatives. One half of the power share in essence. It's the ARLCs so they can form and dissolve it. They'd be telling the nrl to work with them.

Let them be an ARLC vassal, put pressure on the CEO not the commission
 
Last edited:

Lockyer4President!

First Grade
Messages
7,975
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2016/12/06/qrl-boss-fears-nsw-crls-future

6 DEC 2016 - 5:04AM
QRL boss fears for NSW CRL's future

Queensland Rugby League boss Peter Betros admits he will fear for NSW country footy's future if ARLC chairman John Grant is ousted by disgruntled NRL clubs.
Source: AAP

Queensland Rugby League boss Peter Betros fears for NSW country footy's future if John Grant is ousted by disgruntled NRL clubs.

Betros said he was worried NRL clubs wanted to take control of the game in a return to the "bad old days" after they called for a December 20 emergency meeting to decide the ARL Commission chairman's fate.

And he believes NSW's Country Rugby League (CRL) will be the big losers if the clubs achieve their aim.

The QRL boss says the CRL have already lost their voice and fears their days might be numbered after a power play.

"I'd fear for (the CRL's) future if clubs got control of the commission," Betros told AAP.

"(The CRL) have no say at all. The NSWRL doesn't speak on behalf of the CRL.

"(The NSWRL) are controlled by the NRL clubs.

"Whatever the NRL clubs say the NSWRL will do - their structure is very different to the QRL."

Grant fell out with NRL clubs after reneging on a year-old funding agreement.

He recently withdrew a memorandum of understanding that pledged an extra $100 million a year to clubs from 2018.

Clubs require a minimum 14 votes from the game's 26 shareholders - the 16 clubs, NSWRL, eight commissioners and the QRL represented by Betros - to remove Grant at the meeting.

Fourteen clubs, excluding the NRL-owned Gold Coast and Newcastle, signed a letter to the ARLC backing the emergency meeting.

Grant has the support of his seven fellow ARLC directors and the QRL.

"There is a perception the clubs are being selfish and want to control the game and where the money is spent," Betros said.

"Six years ago, the clubs were demanding an independent commission so one group didn't get favour over another.

"Now after the commission has been doing that they want to take back control - it's going back to the bad old days."

Betros said getting rid of Grant would not solve anything.

"I don't see the point in clubs wanting to get rid of John over a disagreement with commission and NRL policy," he said.

"John is the leader of our game and everyone had been praising his success over the last five years and all of a sudden they all want to chop his head off - it doesn't make sense to me."

In an encouraging sign, the NRL clubs released a statement on Monday night saying they had resumed funding talks with Grant.
 

DiegoNT

First Grade
Messages
9,378
Maybe instead of the clubs getting 'handouts' from the nrl, each nrl club can get the tv rights to their own home games. That way they can negotiate their own deals. Give maybe 10-20% of to the nrl for admin costs.
 

DiegoNT

First Grade
Messages
9,378
Bunk point.
Grant can go. Everyone agrees it's about the money anyway. This nonsense about Grant is just that nonsense.

The nsw ideology is lacking. Clearly! They've admitted as much in all the papers. The game in nsw is on the nose. So much so that we're talking about diluting qld teams to pay for nsw teams. That's fine.

The clubs should not get more than 100℅. No other sport does that. Not even Super rich AFL.

The nrl clubs without so much as a cent think they should get even more.

Who's the silly one here? You, you bought into their ideology. So tell me why Christianity should replace Islam? Or ford is better than Holden?

Don't buy into that stuff. The ARLC did and its paying the price, beaten over the head by people like you, who bought the ideology. Unless you're a club working person, you're kidding yourself. Even then, you would be

There is no place for ideology in nrl governance.
A lot of dribble, and a lot of deflection, but still didn't Answer a very simple question, how does the nrl make its money?
 

Von Hipper

Juniors
Messages
178
A lot of dribble, and a lot of deflection, but still didn't Answer a very simple question, how does the nrl make its money?
790.jpg


Thats not dribble, dude, maybe your ears don't know sense when they hear it. They don't need money, as such - they need accomplished business people leading the way and the rest of them need to nut it out (the day to day) without affecting the long term leadership at the top.

Just because you can't figure yourself into that pressure-cooker environment means absolutely nothing to me.

I am not answering your questions, because you are setting me up (and you are asking the wrong questions)....btw its clear the ARLC make the money, thats who gets paid. The clubs could never divide up that amount adequately, nor do they want the burden, despite popular belief. That model is far more unworkable.

I do not wish to concern myself with you and your insolent tones, especially after I praised your other post but here goes, I suspect you are young or naive:

The NRL needs to work more closely with the clubs and the ARLC needs to continue to set the agenda. They can't get muddied up, but note how the ARLC needs to maintain its flexibility and independence. The modern corporation is set up much like a state is set up - to avoid religion and ideologies. There's laws surrounding it, and they should not let the clubs mix it all up on them. There would be major repercussions.

That was recently put into question when Grant had to be CEO for a while as well, and its here we see how the system fell down. But in spite of that, they could use something like I have outlined above, specifically, note:

"What I'd do is first get rid of over protective independence laws, make a club assembly an official non executive extension of the ARLC, and dilute club voting rights further for their own good, to move that effect over to the official body. The clubs need moderate and considered opinions as well as closer ties to the NRL admin."

AND:> "They want much of the same kinds of things don't they, they just want more consensus. So it's a quasi house of representatives. One half of the power share in essence. It's the ARLCs so they can form and dissolve it. They'd be telling the nrl to work with them. ...
Let them be an ARLC vassal, put pressure on the CEO not the commission."

^ They already do that unofficially and more haphazardly.

Thats what needs to occur. Not a rampage from the clubs. They don't need a revolt, they need a funding model and to protect the upper echelon and that business-military-complex caste.

Going forward over time with the relaxed rules on commission selection they can get a few onto it thats more "close" to the game, but to suggest the clubs need control of the commission or greater influence on the commission when they already have 2 former players on the board (grant and pearce) is folly. They get it. They know about rugby league. It doesn't change things that much.
 
Messages
14,139
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2016/12/06/qrl-boss-fears-nsw-crls-future

6 DEC 2016 - 5:04AM
QRL boss fears for NSW CRL's future

Queensland Rugby League boss Peter Betros admits he will fear for NSW country footy's future if ARLC chairman John Grant is ousted by disgruntled NRL clubs.
Source: AAP

Queensland Rugby League boss Peter Betros fears for NSW country footy's future if John Grant is ousted by disgruntled NRL clubs.

Betros said he was worried NRL clubs wanted to take control of the game in a return to the "bad old days" after they called for a December 20 emergency meeting to decide the ARL Commission chairman's fate.

And he believes NSW's Country Rugby League (CRL) will be the big losers if the clubs achieve their aim.

The QRL boss says the CRL have already lost their voice and fears their days might be numbered after a power play.

"I'd fear for (the CRL's) future if clubs got control of the commission," Betros told AAP.

"(The CRL) have no say at all. The NSWRL doesn't speak on behalf of the CRL.

"(The NSWRL) are controlled by the NRL clubs.

"Whatever the NRL clubs say the NSWRL will do - their structure is very different to the QRL."

Grant fell out with NRL clubs after reneging on a year-old funding agreement.

He recently withdrew a memorandum of understanding that pledged an extra $100 million a year to clubs from 2018.

Clubs require a minimum 14 votes from the game's 26 shareholders - the 16 clubs, NSWRL, eight commissioners and the QRL represented by Betros - to remove Grant at the meeting.

Fourteen clubs, excluding the NRL-owned Gold Coast and Newcastle, signed a letter to the ARLC backing the emergency meeting.

Grant has the support of his seven fellow ARLC directors and the QRL.

"There is a perception the clubs are being selfish and want to control the game and where the money is spent," Betros said.

"Six years ago, the clubs were demanding an independent commission so one group didn't get favour over another.

"Now after the commission has been doing that they want to take back control - it's going back to the bad old days."

Betros said getting rid of Grant would not solve anything.

"I don't see the point in clubs wanting to get rid of John over a disagreement with commission and NRL policy," he said.

"John is the leader of our game and everyone had been praising his success over the last five years and all of a sudden they all want to chop his head off - it doesn't make sense to me."

In an encouraging sign, the NRL clubs released a statement on Monday night saying they had resumed funding talks with Grant.
Yeah because the CRL is in great shape under the ARLC as it is..
 

DiegoNT

First Grade
Messages
9,378
790.jpg


Thats not dribble, dude, maybe your ears don't know sense when they hear it. They don't need money, as such - they need accomplished business people leading the way and the rest of them need to nut it out (the day to day) without affecting the long term leadership at the top.

Just because you can't figure yourself into that pressure-cooker environment means absolutely nothing to me.

I am not answering your questions, because you are setting me up (and you are asking the wrong questions)....btw its clear the ARLC make the money, thats who gets paid. The clubs could never divide up that amount adequately, nor do they want the burden, despite popular belief. That model is far more unworkable.

I do not wish to concern myself with you and your insolent tones, especially after I praised your other post but here goes, I suspect you are young or naive:

The NRL needs to work more closely with the clubs and the ARLC needs to continue to set the agenda. They can't get muddied up, but note how the ARLC needs to maintain its flexibility and independence. The modern corporation is set up much like a state is set up - to avoid religion and ideologies. There's laws surrounding it, and they should not let the clubs mix it all up on them. There would be major repercussions.

That was recently put into question when Grant had to be CEO for a while as well, and its here we see how the system fell down. But in spite of that, they could use something like I have outlined above, specifically, note:

"What I'd do is first get rid of over protective independence laws, make a club assembly an official non executive extension of the ARLC, and dilute club voting rights further for their own good, to move that effect over to the official body. The clubs need moderate and considered opinions as well as closer ties to the NRL admin."

AND:> "They want much of the same kinds of things don't they, they just want more consensus. So it's a quasi house of representatives. One half of the power share in essence. It's the ARLCs so they can form and dissolve it. They'd be telling the nrl to work with them. ...
Let them be an ARLC vassal, put pressure on the CEO not the commission."

^ They already do that unofficially and more haphazardly.

Thats what needs to occur. Not a rampage from the clubs. They don't need a revolt, they need a funding model and to protect the upper echelon and that business-military-complex caste.

Going forward over time with the relaxed rules on commission selection they can get a few onto it thats more "close" to the game, but to suggest the clubs need control of the commission or greater influence on the commission when they already have 2 former players on the board (grant and pearce) is folly. They get it. They know about rugby league. It doesn't change things that much.
So spin and dribble, but still no answer on how NRL make that huge stack of money they sit on and handout.
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,761
Looks like clubs and NRL are talking again

Media Release⁠, NRL, NRL
Mon, Dec 05, 2016 - 08:28PM

Representatives of the clubs and the ARLC met today and agreed to continue discussions to resolve the current impasse
 

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