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NRL faces major turmoil as clubs threaten breakaway league

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
15,929
If you dont think players are more skilled then you aren't watching. Watch the tries the wingers score nowdays and compare it to wingers just 10 years ago. Every half can pass both left and right, It's a bare minimum requirement yet 15 years ago you still had 1st grade halves who couldn't do that. The majority of forwards can offload now, every from rower can pass the list goes on. It may not be as noticeable because defence has improved dramatically as well. Players fitness is miles ahead and continues to improve.

In terms of the product on the field, defence has not "improved dramatically". Defence is an abomination to watch now. It is ugly as sin. Whereas in previous eras you had glorious bootlace man on man tackling techniques now we have wrestling tactics that involve several people holding one man and then another cat cannoning into their legs when they are immobilised and then a stacks on. If you think that is a better product we are on vastly different wave lengths.
Sure, hours and hours and hours of work and thought and video and technique training has gone into defence and defences now would dominate attacks of the 90s but the net gain to the game is in the negative because it is far worse to watch.

In terms of attacking skills you need to watch Origins and grand finals from the 90s and then sit down and watch the boring, skill deprived Origins and grand finals we have had in the past 5 years.
 

AlwaysGreen

Post Whore
Messages
50,585
if you don't like it don't watch it and f**k off with your crackpot shithouse ideas and let everyone else enjoy it.
 

DiegoNT

First Grade
Messages
9,378
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp...-funding-battle-with-afl-20160915-grhf6q.html

AFL 2016: Wealthiest clubs in funding battle with AFL

September 15 2016


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The four wealthiest teams in the AFL are in a new battle with the competition over club funding after learning they will receive no additional money from the new $2.5 billion broadcast rights agreement.

Collingwood, Hawthorn, West Coast and Fremantle have all made individual presentations to league chief Gillon McLachlan to voice disappointment with the game's new investment model that they claim has over-corrected in the equalisation push.

As the AFL intensifies efforts to close the gap between rich and poor clubs, the game's wealthiest franchises have learned they will each receive an estimated $8.6 million next year, which in real terms means they will receive no lift from the richest sport media deal in Australian history. The poorer clubs, led by 2016 preliminary finalist Greater Western Sydney, are expected to receive more than $20 million at the bottom of a sliding scale that has been presented to the AFL Commission.

1473936322451.jpg

Not happy: Dockers CEO Steve Rosich. Photo: Getty Images
Gold Coast, Brisbane and St Kilda make up the bottom four and biggest welfare recipients.

Fremantle chief Steve Rosich confirmed the Dockers had voiced disenchantment in a presentation to the AFL. He told Fairfax Media: "We have concerns going forward with the AFL's investment model." He added: "We are very pleased to be paying our way and will record our ninth consecutive profit this year."

While Hawthorn CEO Stuart Fox was the most vocal in challenging the AFL's new model at the most recent meeting of the 18 clubs, Collingwood is understood to be fighting for the biggest funding boost pushing the league for close to an extra $1 million annually from the new TV deal.

The successful clubs have argued their popularity and/or success has significantly grown the game and their strong on-field performances should have seen some financial uplift from the AFL. Fox received some support from West Coast chief executive Trevor Nisbett at the CEOs talks and the Hawks and the Eagles remain confident the AFL has taken their protests on board.

The wealthy clubs' disappointment comes as it has emerged only a handful of clubs will record genuine profits this year with 13 to lose money in real terms or at best struggle to break even.

Richmond, after recording profits for a decade, are expected to record a small loss off the back of a disappointing season, with Port Adelaide's dismal season seeing that club record a loss despite significant AFL funding. While Carlton has improved its bottom line the club will still record a loss in the high six figures and Sydney hopes to break even with only a grand final appearance expected to place the Swans in the black.

Melbourne, the Bulldogs and North will all record profits but remain heavily reliant on AFL additional funding. The only clubs who will record profits in real terms are Hawthorn, West Coast, Fremantle, Collingwood and Adelaide.

Collingwood's bottom line has fallen significantly this season after the club's falling attendance numbers and million-dollar investment in the new Magpies netball team and women's football team. Having recorded an operating profit of close to $900,000 in 2015 that number has more than halved in 2016.

We have concerns going forward with the AFL's investment model.

Fremantle chief Steve Rosich
Although the AFL's chief financial officer Ray Gunston has stripped the contentious wealth tax from its new investment model the wealthiest four clubs claim they are still being taxed but in another form.

Although the AFL and the AFL Players Association remain locked in dispute over the players' new wage deal from 2017 the league has promised it will fund 100 per cent of the players' pay rise along with any increase in their marketing allowance.

The AFL has also refused a request from a number of wealthier clubs, including Hawthorn, to lift the soft cap on football department spending. The Hawks have complained their football wages bill will be placed under pressure with the AFL refusing to even lift the cap in accordance with inflation.

The poorer clubs will also receive additional funding to boost their football department spending.


But the afl clubs are smarter, they won't get into arguements over funding because they can see the growth in the game. Except many of the big clubs are argueing either the afl right now over it

Afl isn't so dumb as to give the clubs so much when they can spend on growth and grassroots. Except it 100% guarantees the salary of players and some clubs recieve grants that are 200% of the salary cap.

Afl wouldn't be so stupid to keep dying teams in crowded areas, like the nrl does with so many teams in Sydney. Except the western bulldogs are one of those teams currently recieving $20m a year in grants (200% of their salary cap) and the roos and demons getting huge handouts as well.

The poorer afl clubs are getting additional funding to boost their football departments.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
15,929
Memberships are climbing every year. But sure people hate the game nowadays
Memberships are climbing because they are still a relatively new concept, not because the quality of games has increased. It is the kind of things that clubs neglected for years until the NRL admin said wake up clubs start selling memberships.
 

BuffaloRules

Coach
Messages
15,570
The reason clubs want less spent on admin is they think they should control the game. Talented outsiders like Smith cost money and more frightening bring in new ideas on how to grow the game (like for example a second Brisbane team). Insiders like Greenberg can be controlled, they are safe because they have limited alternative options outside of the NRL so the idea of going against the will of the establishment is terrifying for them - so they toe the line.

Who is saying anything about spending less money?

Just don't double it every few years...

$300million isn't enough apparently?

How much is enough?

Smith didn't actually achieve that Second Brisbane team, but he did manage to introduce this bloated Admin beast...

And they never release what they are spending the money on...
 

DiegoNT

First Grade
Messages
9,378
Memberships are climbing because they are still a relatively new concept, not because the quality of games has increased. It is the kind of things that clubs neglected for years until the NRL admin said wake up clubs start selling memberships.
But the nrl product is completely crap according to T-goon. So why would people be spending so much money on something so terrible. Why would so many people be tuning in to something so terrible?
 

BuffaloRules

Coach
Messages
15,570
But the nrl product is completely crap according to T-goon. So why would people be spending so much money on something so terrible. Why would so many people be tuning in to something so terrible?

Because of the NRL admin obviously...
 

DiegoNT

First Grade
Messages
9,378
Because of the NRL admin obviously...
Ahh of course. People tune in to watch greenberg and Grant press conferences.
No one watches these terrible and unskilled bludgers like GI, Thurston and Milford play for boring old teams like souths, broncos and bulldogs.
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,500
It is more important in my opinion to compare the NRL admin costs against our competitors. I am guessing it is somewhere in between AFLs and A- Leagues costs. I am guessing increases in admin have in part come from looking at what things the AFL do that we don't. For example before the last TV deal we paid a fortune to a consultancy/negotiation group to help negotiate a good deal. The reason we did was because we got such a terrible deal relative to AFL the time before and they had a consultancy group help them out.

Why? We have an overseas club, we have less clubs , less player numbers.less representation in the Oz cities' teams in the lower grades from PNG,plus our digital dept hasn't yet started.We have an International set up.

The AFL have consultancy people to get the best Tv deal for them.One of the guys who now sits on the NRL board ,was one of them.

The reason we got sh*thouse Tv deals in the past, because half the NRL was owned by News Ltd,who happened to be one the the parties in which we were negotiating .Negotiating with one hand tied behind your back.And have Gallop as a hard nose negotiator ,is hardly inspiring stuff.

A decent consultant can go through the admin books ,check on individuals and form an opinion as to the amount of wastage or " double handling".

So you are correct, you are guessing.Clear transparency is what we need and if there is waste, just remove it.
 

ParraEelsNRL

Referee
Messages
27,714
Those things didn't just happen, they are happening because they are prepared to spend more on AFL administration. They have smarter CEOs that get paid a lot more and were prepared to stand up to the clubs years ago (the clubs themselves are a lot smarter) and explain to them why expansion and growth is good for everyone.
We need better talent at the top and thus more admin costs to try to bridge the gap the AFL have opened up. Instead the clubs want us spending less on admin so that brainiacs like Gould, Doust, Steve Sharp and Tinkler can run the game.
they standup to the clubs because vfl players have nowhere else to play. Rugby league players here can go to Europe and play in the super league or Union comps. The vfl clubs really have no power at all.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
15,929
But the nrl product is completely crap according to T-goon. So why would people be spending so much money on something so terrible. Why would so many people be tuning in to something so terrible?

they are like me and you, league fans from long ago. I am not saying the game is "completely crap" just that in my opinion it has regressed in terms of skill and entertainment. I think more and more casual league fans are just tuning in to watch their own team play and not watching neutral games.
The entertainment factor in the game has gone backwards in the last 10 years (main reason is the wrestling) thats one reason why crowds have started declining when by all logic they should be climbing.
 

Von Hipper

Juniors
Messages
178
In terms of the product on the field, defence has not "improved dramatically". Defence is an abomination to watch now. It is ugly as sin. Whereas in previous eras you had glorious bootlace man on man tackling techniques now we have wrestling tactics that involve several people holding one man and then another cat cannoning into their legs when they are immobilised and then a stacks on. If you think that is a better product we are on vastly different wave lengths.
Sure, hours and hours and hours of work and thought and video and technique training has gone into defence and defences now would dominate attacks of the 90s but the net gain to the game is in the negative because it is far worse to watch.

In terms of attacking skills you need to watch Origins and grand finals from the 90s and then sit down and watch the boring, skill deprived Origins and grand finals we have had in the past 5 years.

You and people who think the same will understand. Well said btw!!! I can say it 10 different ways but it will always be the same.

They're dangerous idiots with dangerous ideas. I will show people if I have to (other people) how the clubs are literally sucking the life out of the sport, on and off the field. We can all see it on here, to varying degrees of intensity/concern. Me, I think its systemic almost. The clubs lie, beg, borrow, steal, they don't care about the product on the field or off it. But they will run it into the ground almost so they can win one single year. The desire is commendable but their application is atrocious. They can't possibly see it from where they sit. And we can't be run like the NFL - our market is just not big enough or set up to support that Machiavellian kind of thing.

Remember how the tv deal used to be great 12 months ago? Now the papers and clubs are spinning it to being 'crap'. They're wilfully being ignorant to the racket that was run on the sport for 20 years and just joining in on the bashing now.


Here we are, knowing removing any person on the commission will do absolutely zero in all likely hood to change things, but they are still doing it.

__

They don't need more money - they literally just need less wrestling, more skills and more tactics, and stop looking for or inventing edges that other sports would say "thats abominable". Some of those guys, have no souls, I'm sure.

The game is more intense now, and its much tighter, but one must ask was there anything WRONG? with the sport in 1996? Before the extra football department spending on superfluous things? And some brainiac figured wouldn't it be cool if they could do unlimited interchange and bash each other for 80 mins instead of 15.

If they wanted to improve the sport, they needed to regress.

Thankfully Smith, the former NRL CEO (and others) saw this, reducing interchange, stopping wrestling as much as they could, and things like fighting that literally would prevent articles being written about the game, ect.

__

They do not need an abominable version that has reared its ugly head from time to time, the one thats impossible to officiate, and is grossly unfair with dirty tactics, they need the "retro-modern" version of what it would have been before they all started fking with it. That game actually happens now more than what people give the NRL credit for.

Basically the clubs will cheat, rob, steal, they don't care. They will even ruin the sport on the field, they literally can't be trusted to officiate the sport overall. Maybe they need a better course of protest/conversation with the admin, I honestly do think that, but they overstep their bounds atm.
 
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T-Boon

Coach
Messages
15,929
Look Ive got no really problem with cutting admin costs. If we are happy with guys like Greenberg or maybe Gould in replacement then fine go for it. Just lets cap the wastage at club level.No more wrestling coaches or f**king "centres of excellence".
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
15,929
you have issues if that statement worries the hell out of you

I think he just means for the future of the game.
We have just seen the clubs/New Ltd punt a CEO and replace him with a yes man and they are now about to do the same with a chairman. That statement from Gould tells you everything you need to know about the clubs attitude towards any kind of central governance - unnecessary/ an obstacle to their own complete control. They plan to keep on the yes men like Greenberg and shop around until they get a board they want - cheap and compliant. That way we have no expansion ever as what is in that for the clubs. And gradually the development of the grass root will be left up to the clubs. Good lord.
 
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DiegoNT

First Grade
Messages
9,378
I think gus was saying rugby league isn't dependant on Grant or the Gang. If they locked themselves in the HQ people would still play and watch rugby league.
 

El Diablo

Post Whore
Messages
94,107
You and people who think the same will understand. Well said btw!!! I can say it 10 different ways but it will always be the same.

They're dangerous idiots with dangerous ideas. I will show people if I have to (other people) how the clubs are literally sucking the life out of the sport, on and off the field. We can all see it on here, to varying degrees of intensity/concern. Me, I think its systemic almost. The clubs lie, beg, borrow, steal, they don't care about the product on the field or off it. But they will run it into the ground almost so they can win one single year. The desire is commendable but their application is atrocious. They can't possibly see it from where they sit. And we can't be run like the NFL - our market is just not big enough or set up to support that Machiavellian kind of thing.

Remember how the tv deal used to be great 12 months ago? Now the papers and clubs are spinning it to being 'crap'. They're wilfully being ignorant to the racket that was run on the sport for 20 years and just joining in on the bashing now.


Here we are, knowing removing any person on the commission will do absolutely zero in all likely hood to change things, but they are still doing it.

__

They don't need more money - they literally just need less wrestling, more skills and more tactics, and stop looking for or inventing edges that other sports would say "thats abominable". Some of those guys, have no souls, I'm sure.

The game is more intense now, and its much tighter, but one must ask was there anything WRONG? with the sport in 1996? Before the extra football department spending on superfluous things? And some brainiac figured wouldn't it be cool if they could do unlimited interchange and bash each other for 80 mins instead of 15.

If they wanted to improve the sport, they needed to regress.

Thankfully Smith, the former NRL CEO (and others) saw this, reducing interchange, stopping wrestling as much as they could, and things like fighting that literally would prevent articles being written about the game, ect.

__

They do not need an abominable version that has reared its ugly head from time to time, the one thats impossible to officiate, and is grossly unfair with dirty tactics, they need the "retro-modern" version of what it would have been before they all started fking with it. That game actually happens now more than what people give the NRL credit for.

Basically the clubs will cheat, rob, steal, they don't care. They will even ruin the sport on the field, they literally can't be trusted to officiate the sport overall. Maybe they need a better course of protest/conversation with the admin, I honestly do think that, but they overstep their bounds atm.
GW here
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,765
So where did all of these admin costs go ?

We all knew ARLC would need more staff than before.

Appointing 8 commissioners for a start

But raw admin costs can't be that high

But we have had a number of one time facilities built

NRL Central itself at Moore Park
NRL Central in Queensland

Then add the

The Bunker

And we now have the NSW Center of Excellance at Homebush being built

And a new digital department

These big one time costs.

We haven't had the facilities expansion yet that the AFL did with the Cricket at cricket venues

Only two regional venue imporvements at Mudgee and Tamworth.

But we are also going to see Homebush stadium rebuilt and then the SFS refurbished

But the funding model was set by the AFL for stadia so govetnments now expect sporting bodies to contribute

But living within your means is vital for the ARLC not just the clubs

And also important is to setup a asset base or future fund

Player welfare insurance scheme also needs to be setup, as health funds don't cover players properly. But this must apply nation wide
 
Messages
14,139
So where did all of these admin costs go ?

We all knew ARLC would need more staff than before.

Appointing 8 commissioners for a start

But raw admin costs can't be that high

But we have had a number of one time facilities built

NRL Central itself at Moore Park
NRL Central in Queensland

Then add the

The Bunker

And we now have the NSW Center of Excellance at Homebush being built

And a new digital department

These big one time costs.

We haven't had the facilities expansion yet that the AFL did with the Cricket at cricket venues

Only two regional venue imporvements at Mudgee and Tamworth.

But we are also going to see Homebush stadium rebuilt and then the SFS refurbished

But the funding model was set by the AFL for stadia so govetnments now expect sporting bodies to contribute

But living within your means is vital for the ARLC not just the clubs

And also important is to setup a asset base or future fund

Player welfare insurance scheme also needs to be setup, as health funds don't cover players properly. But this must apply nation wide
The NRL wouldn't have put a cent into Mudgee or Tamworth.
 

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