NRL: Lets talk about relocating teams, says QRL boss.

[titoelcolombiano]

Tyranny of distance: Difficulties associated with population centres separated by large distances. As with Australia believe it or not!

If true then:

Why can the Hunters afford to travel to and from QLD in the second teir?
Why can the Warriors afford to travel to and from NSW in the second teir?
Why can the Pirates afford to travel to and from NSW in the SG ball comp?
Why can the Victorian Thunderbolts afford to travel to and from QLD in the Hastings Deering Colts comp?

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Glad we agree on the tyranny definition! It's moreso the cultural and local rivalries that are sustained through good and bad times is the benefit for Sydney based Top flight clubs. These clubs have immense traditional rivalries which are necessarily augmented and sustained by localism. What I would describe as the fabric of the NRL in Sydney. It's very crucial and important. Only now are we seeing the results from losing North Sydney. It manifests itself over time. And this is what has happened. The code has declined in Northern Sydney and now, as you rightly stated, the vulnerability of the code in a competitive northern Sydney region is being witnessed. Poor Manly, now having a downtime, has no local derby rival to sustain the locality rivalry that satisfied and catered for the sports punter of this area. Instead the code withers and declines. But yes, you make good sense and I'm relieved and grateful you have pointed this out very well. Great Dane: I'm starting to change my opinion of you. This is the most constructive comment you have offered! Well done. And Merry Christmas!

Why can RU clubs thrive in the third teir of their sport in North Sydney? Does this show that it is possible for a sport and sporting clubs to thrive and be a strength to a sport from below the top teir?

 

[titoelcolombiano]

A long time rival being exited from a world renowned competition is having a negative affect in many ways on the remaining club in Manly Warringah . The dynamics of local rivalries are very imporant in a city with the geography and population of Sydney. Northern Sydney is in decline as far as rugby league is concerned. The code's vulnerability has been exposed since a major and longstanding rivalry has been eliminated. It's a very crucial aspect of rugby league's decline in northern Sydney. The people of northern Sydney have now been coerced /compelled into looking for alternative cultural rivalries and union,in particular, is benefitting.It matters Great Dane.

You mean those Union clubs that aren't in the top teir?

 

[greenBV4]

Sharks face relocation with NRL preparing to take over licence

• December 21, 2018 10:31am
• JOE MCDONOUGH
• Source: FOX SPORTS

The Cronulla Sharks are in serious danger of being taken over by the NRL. Picture: Brett CostelloSource: News Corp Australia
If the Sharks are crippled financially the NRL would take immediate control of the cash-strapped club, according to reports.

Fines totalling $800,000 were dished out to the club over the Shane Flanagan saga on Thursday, and further penalties are expected once the salary cap breach investigation is completed in January.

Will Flano coach NRL again?

These significant hits to Cronulla’s coffers would throw the club’s immediate future into doubt, with the Daily Telegraph reporting the NRL’s considering the relocation of the one-time premiers.

Veteran league writer Dean Ritchie claims the NRL have held “private talks at the highest level” because the governing body cannot afford for Cronulla to dive into bankruptcy without having a contingency plan.

Ritchie says the option of relocating the Sharks to either Brisbane or Perth has been raised.

Of course, the Sharks — who endured a $3 million loss in 2018 and are currently without jersey sponsors — are confident they can avoid such a scenario, and have reportedly guaranteed two financial injections to keep them afloat in the short-term.

News Corp also understands the next stage of the Woolooware Bay development — based next to Shark Park — will result in another financial boon.

The NRL recently announced it would spend 12 months working on a relocation and expansion strategy.

- https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nr...uy2HeMiSpWwdOGSMMR7fDD1S3IDC1jNMxOP1XQ9OWOANY

Doubt it'd happen but if it did would the Sharks be better received and successful in Brisbane or Perth? or somewhere else like Wellington

 

[taipan]

- https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nr...uy2HeMiSpWwdOGSMMR7fDD1S3IDC1jNMxOP1XQ9OWOANY

Doubt it'd happen but if it did would the Sharks be better received and successful in Brisbane or Perth? or somewhere else like Wellington

That contingency plan applies to any Sydney club that could or does go under..The Daily Telegraph producing their usual dramatic headline, who woulda thought.Then somewhere near the end of the "scoop" they state money is likely (up to $8m ) to come on from the developers in the next few days.In addition they note one of their former directors with money is also working behind the scenes.

As has been stated monotonously prior, the residential development on the western side, was 640 odd units.Of which the developer was getting full profits on the first 340.Then he Shark would start receiving 50% share of profits on the remainder. Which has started regularly.

In addition the club has D.A approval for an additional 200 plus units over the retail side on the East, and have lodged a detailed plan recently with the Council for final approval.That again is on the basis of 50% profit share of units sold.
In addition the retail section is expected to bring in $1m pa.That includes an on site hotel for about 90 rooms.

 

[The Great Dane]

A long time rival being exited from a world renowned competition is having a negative affect in many ways on the remaining club in Manly Warringah . The dynamics of local rivalries are very imporant in a city with the geography and population of Sydney. Northern Sydney is in decline as far as rugby league is concerned. The code's vulnerability has been exposed since a major and longstanding rivalry has been eliminated. It's a very crucial aspect of rugby league's decline in northern Sydney. The people of northern Sydney have now been coerced /compelled into looking for alternative cultural rivalries and union,in particular, is benefitting.It matters Great Dane.

You know I don't necessarily disagree with you, the loss of a big rival and the subsequent loss of the income and interest that rivalry created almost certainly negatively impacted Manly's business to a degree, though again I think you are vastly over estimating that impact... But don't worry about that right now, it's another whole discussion with it's own complexities that can be focused on another time.

Going off on tangents about Manly and NS while talking about the tyranny of distance and the effects of modern broadcasting on the tyranny of distance will just confuse both issues and we'll get nowhere with both, when we could get somewhere if we just focused on one at a time.

So let's come to the end of our discussion about the tyranny of distance, then if you wish we can talk about NS and it's impact on Manly.

But the tyranny of distance has no effect on local rivalries whatsoever, unless you are moving clubs and thus moving them away from their local rival (which as I've stated a million times I'm against relocations, so we agree that would be a bad thing), but even if the NRL was to expand to Timbuktu (to be clear I'm not suggesting that the NRL should actually expand to Timbuktu) the local rivalries in Sydney wouldn't be effected by that, they'd keep occurring year after year without change, it's just that a Timbuktu club would also be a part of the competition and every year the Sydney clubs would play them as well.

Focus on this bit of my post above, it's the more important bit to the discussion at hand. So what do you think of that?

 

[Stallion]

If true then:

Why can the Hunters afford to travel to and from QLD in the second teir?
Why can the Warriors afford to travel to and from NSW in the second teir?
Why can the Pirates afford to travel to and from NSW in the SG ball comp?
Why can the Victorian Thunderbolts afford to travel to and from QLD in the Hastings Deering Colts comp?

With respect. It's moreso a fan capability and local rivalry factor. It matters significantly especially when these clubs have longevity which entails generational support and widespread notoriety.

 

[Stallion]

Why can RU clubs thrive in the third teir of their sport in North Sydney? Does this show that it is possible for a sport and sporting clubs to thrive and be a strength to a sport from below the top teir?

It's a different scenario. Alot of the support you see now for union is a protest vote and a path to cultural relevance as the path has been closed in top flight rugby league. People don't support a lower standing once having a taste of fun in the sun! In local union these people (once Bears or RL fans )felt abandoned and have voted with their feet to another code which is accessible and has now been given more relevance due to the lack of top flight rugby league which ruled the roost for many years. The RL derbies of northern Sydney have gone and so have most of the locals to elsewhere.

 

[Stallion]

You mean those Union clubs that aren't in the top teir?

Different context. We are talking about a traditional local rugby league rivalry that has disappeared. Other codes such as union have taken up the slack with the protest vote and people wanting cultural relevance through rivalry in the local area.

 

[Stallion]

You know I don't necessarily disagree with you, the loss of a big rival and the subsequent loss of the income and interest that rivalry created almost certainly negatively impacted Manly's business to a degree, though again I think you are vastly over estimating that impact... But don't worry about that right now, it's another whole discussion with it's own complexities that can be focused on another time.

Going off on tangents about Manly and NS while talking about the tyranny of distance and the effects of modern broadcasting on the tyranny of distance will just confuse both issues and we'll get nowhere with both, when we could get somewhere if we just focused on one at a time.

So let's come to the end of our discussion about the tyranny of distance, then if you wish we can talk about NS and it's impact on Manly.



Focus on this bit of my post above, it's the more important bit to the discussion at hand. So what do you think of that?

Completely agree . If you move or eliminate a local rival club it has an immense negative impact. This can be linked to localism and cultural norms of the general fan. This topic is related to the Bears/Manly scenario as the end result (demise of rugby league ) is sadly being witnessed. The locals have voted with their allegiance to a code that has given them local relevance and has not taken away what they once cherished which is a Manly Warringah v North Sydney rivalry in the top flight. (Their place in the sun)

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Different context. We are talking about a traditional local rugby league rivalry that has disappeared. Other codes such as union have taken up the slack with the protest vote and people wanting cultural relevance through rivalry in the local area.

So would you agree that reuniting this rivalry (Manly v Norths) in the NSW Cup will sort the issue out? This must be true since the union rivaries are thriving in the third teir. The league version will do very well in the second teir. This will then free up a spot in the NRL for an expansion club such as Perth.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

It's a different scenario. Alot of the support you see now for union is a protest vote and a path cultural relevance as the path has been closed in top flight rugby league. People don't support a lower staning once having a taste in the sun! In local union these people (once Bears or RL fans )felt abandoned and have voted with their feet to another code which is accessible and has now been given more relevance due to the lack of top flight rugby league which ruled the roost for many years. The RL derbies of northern Sydney have gone and so have most of the locals to elsewhere.

Before Super Rugby Shute, shield was the top level of Rugby Union in this country and now it is the third teir so your claim is incorrect. Tell me why these rivaries still attract fans and tell me why Manly and Norths couldn't do so from NSW Cup?

 

[titoelcolombiano]

With respect. It's moreso a fan capability and local rivalry factor. It matters significantly especially when these clubs have longevity which entails generational support and widespread notoriety.

Perth, NZ 2, Brisbane, Melbourne, Canberra, North QLD and even Newcastle to a lesser extent don't rely on away fans to pull a crowd. Either do the big Sydney clubs. Which Sydney clubs are you referring to that aren't capable of pulling a big enough crowd on their own?

 

[Stallion]

So would you agree that reuniting this rivalry (Manly v Norths) in the NSW Cup will sort the issue out? This must be true since the union rivaries are thriving in the third teir. The league version will do very well in the second teir. This will then free up a spot in the NRL for an expansion club such as Perth.

No. As these great rugby league clubs deserve top flight status as their fans are well and truelly use to " a place in the sun" as in decades gone by. The exiting of the Bears was an abrupt occurrence stemming from a very poor "superleague" agreement. Should never had happened. The carve up was destructive for rugby league in so many ways. This is one of the sad stories from this 'agreement '. The rugby union clubs have merely taken up the protest vote from disenfranchised rugby league fans. It's a protest vote. These sare fans will not settle for 2nd status on rugby league. They are entitled to and expect top flight status. Make no.bones about they walked in protest to local union because rugby league has abandoned their cultural relevance and status in the best rugby league comp in the world.

 

[Stallion]

Perth, NZ 2, Brisbane, Melbourne, Canberra, North QLD and even Newcastle to a lesser extent don't rely on away fans to pull a crowd. Either do the big Sydney clubs. Which Sydney clubs are you referring to that aren't capable of pulling a big enough crowd on their own?

Think you will see their biggest crowds are from the clubs that have had longevity (Public credibility ) in the general public. As a Novostrian, I still follow my childhood club ((Roosters) but have Knights as my 2nd team. Without these core Sydney clubs the credibility of the competition becomes zilch. Longevity and familitarily matters. ALL Sydney clubs have big 'latent' support all over Australia. You carve them up you carve the essence and true attraction of the competition. Sure by all means add on new clubs but never at the cost of a Sydney based club. That would be counterproductive. The continued 'whiteanting' of the code would just continue in Sydney and believe it or not elsewhere outside of Sydney.

 

[Perth Red]

That contingency plan applies to any Sydney club that could or does go under..The Daily Telegraph producing their usual dramatic headline, who woulda thought.Then somewhere near the end of the "scoop" they state money is likely (up to $8m ) to come on from the developers in the next few days.In addition they note one of their former directors with money is also working behind the scenes.

As has been stated monotonously prior, the residential development on the western side, was 640 odd units.Of which the developer was getting full profits on the first 340.Then he Shark would start receiving 50% share of profits on the remainder. Which has started regularly.

In addition the club has D.A approval for an additional 200 plus units over the retail side on the East, and have lodged a detailed plan recently with the Council for final approval.That again is on the basis of 50% profit share of units sold.
In addition the retail section is expected to bring in $1m pa.That includes an on site hotel for about 90 rooms.

Why is this revenue not showing on the Sharks 2017 annual report or are you saying it started flowing in this year, in which case why are you rumored to have lost $3-4million in 2018? The first $6million of this is already spent repaying loans you are currently carrying, not sure how the $3-4million loss in 2018 is going to be covered, or the $800k fine if it sticks in the new year? Whilst there is no doubt the development is the only thing giving Sharks any hope of survival at this time it seems the cash isn't flowing quickly or strongly enough at the moment?
At this rate the apartment sales are all going to go to cover your historic debts and the $1mill PA revenue generator is only going to plug a % of current operating losses?

 

[Perth Red]

Last season Norths were in the comp ('99) they avg'd 8,500 home attendance. I'm not sure the rivalry was really helping much!

 

[Stallion]

Last season Norths were in the comp ('99) they avg'd 8,500 home attendance. I'm not sure the rivalry was really

Not when a News ltd appointed administrator has the Bears playing a home game in Lang Park Brisbane!

 

[taipan]

Why is this revenue not showing on the Sharks 2017 annual report or are you saying it started flowing in this year, in which case why are you rumored to have lost $3-4million in 2018? The first $6million of this is already spent repaying loans you are currently carrying, not sure how the $3-4million loss in 2018 is going to be covered, or the $800k fine if it sticks in the new year? Whilst there is no doubt the development is the only thing giving Sharks any hope of survival at this time it seems the cash isn't flowing quickly or strongly enough at the moment?
At this rate the apartment sales are all going to go to cover your historic debts and the $1mill PA revenue generator is only going to plug a % of current operating losses?

Because it's coming through in 2018.
I don't rely on rumours, as you do,will wait til the final washout.

You don't know what the final profits for the sale of the balance of the western side nor the eastern side 200 plus will be.So how the hell do you know what they will or won't cover.
You don't know what the financial impact of refurbishment of they leagues club will do to fiancees with new restaurants etc.
The development is not the only thing .ATM it is the one that is being promoted.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Think you will see their biggest crowds are from the clubs that have had longevity (Public credibility ) in the general public. As a Novostrian, I still follow my childhood club ((Roosters) but have Knights as my 2nd team. Without these core Sydney clubs the credibility of the competition becomes zilch. Longevity and familitarily matters. ALL Sydney clubs have big 'latent' support all over Australia. You carve them up you carve the essence and true attraction of the competition. Sure by all means add on new clubs but never at the cost of a Sydney based club. That would be counterproductive. The continued 'whiteanting' of the code would just continue in Sydney and believe it or not elsewhere outside of Sydney.

Your statement is incorrect:
Broncos biggest draw Cowboys
Cowboys biggest draw is Broncos
Titans biggest draw is Broncos
Melbourne's biggest draw is NZ Warriors

Yes, agreed that big Sydney clubs and their rivalries, history and tradition are great for the game. The small ones are not so critical and should be playing NSW Cup which would be a more suitable level for them.

BTW memberships and TV ratings are at an all time high and attendances are only 1k off of our peak which was back in the period 2009 - 2012. So it doesn't appear that the game is being whiteanted. It appears that it is bigger than ever including in Sydney. Just because other codes have grown doesn't automatically mean that ours has shrunk.