NRL set to introduce New Zealand Maori clash with Indigenous All Stars

[TheDMC]

Instead of one team picked based on race, we are now going to have 2.

Sounds like a sensational plan.

I look forward to future expansion where we have the Caucasian heritage side added to make it a tri series.

Convicts versus settlers might be fun too

 

[SBD82]

Convicts versus settlers might be fun too

It'd end up Huns vs Fenians.

Would watch.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

That's probably because by the looks of it you are braindead. 'White' is not a culture FFS and I'm not saying what you are inferring at all.

Yeah m8 I’m braindead, good one. Don’t be a f**kwit.

What are you saying then? Do white people get to have a ‘race’ or ‘culture’ beyond nationality? If my ancestors have been New Zealanders for literally exactly as long as Maori have been New Zealanders, why do Maori have a pre-existing ethnicity but I don’t?

 

[Dakink]

As a white Australian, I cant wait for this game. What a great early season exhibition to get people excited for the upcoming season. Celebrated the aboriginal and Maori contribution to the game.

 

[The Great Dane]

That's Dane. Does it to about every thread in the International forum with his rambling nonsense.

Well that's just abjectly false, I barely post in the International forum at all...

 

[Matua]

Yeah m8 I’m braindead, good one. Don’t be a f**kwit.

What are you saying then? Do white people get to have a ‘race’ or ‘culture’ beyond nationality? If my ancestors have been New Zealanders for literally exactly as long as Maori have been New Zealanders, why do Maori have a pre-existing ethnicity but I don’t?

Clearly, Manu Vatuvei, you're Tongan.

But to be serious, of course you do, why would you think otherwise?

 

[kdalymc]

The racism isn't in the classification it's in the exclusion!

So again IF their was an i.e. White Australian football team

You really don’t get it do you...

 

[Manurewa_Marlins]

The only gripe I have is that it perhaps should be the tentpole fixture for the indigenous round as opposed to being a preseason exhibition. However given the NRL/ARLC's stance on anything other than Origin taking the spotlight for a wee while, I get it.

Should be a bit of fun as far as the footy is concerned and there's nothing wrong with using it as a vehicle for dialogue so long as said dialogue is productive

 

[Pedge1971]

Terrifies the f**k out of me. Would have the Maoris and Indigenous teams quaking in their boots (or scooting)...

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

Clearly, Manu Vatuvei, you're Tongan.

But to be serious, of course you do, why would you think otherwise?

I don't, but that's what old mate said. My ancestry (other than "New Zealander") is too remote to count but Maori ancestry isn't.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

What would be the point in having a "White guys" side when it would be almost identical to the Allstars team, given that every player with a trace of European blood would presumably qualify? Basically of the Maori and Indigenous players would also qualify for a European side as practically none of them don't have white ancestors.

 

[kdalymc]

Someone please lock this thread...

 

[Springs09]

Yeah m8 I’m braindead, good one. Don’t be a f**kwit.

What are you saying then? Do white people get to have a ‘race’ or ‘culture’ beyond nationality? If my ancestors have been New Zealanders for literally exactly as long as Maori have been New Zealanders, why do Maori have a pre-existing ethnicity but I don’t?

Of course you do, but I don't know what it is, I don't know you. Whatever it is, it's not 'white', that's not a culture it's a skin colour.

The only culture I count myself a part of is Australian. I'm 1/16 English and 1/16 Danish, but my family has never kept in touch with any 'culture' that comes from that ancestry. I could claim to be if I really wanted, but I don't. The town near where I live, Griffith, has a substantial Italian culture, and for people like that there are teams like 'Italian Australians', 'Maltese Australians' 'Latin Heat', 'Fijian Australians' etc. There is no general Australian 'white culture', what would that be, anyone white guy in Australia that drinks beer, watches footy and has a southern cross tattoo?

The point is saying a Maori team is the same as having a 'white' team is f**king geniused, the equivalent to having a white team would be having a general 'coloured' team.

 

[Perth Red]

Are other PI’ers considered Maori? When visiting the Cook Islands they laid claim to being the original Maori culture as that is where the nz maori canoes sailed from. Would a cook islander be eligible for this game or only nz’ers?

 

[RedVee]

I have some African ancestry from slaves in Mauritius but it’s a minority and I am Australian.

But because I don’t claim it doesn’t mean I think that those with Maori or Indigenous Australian ancestry should not.

Surely it’s up to those cultures to decide for themselves who they include.

 

[Matua]

Are other PI’ers considered Maori? When visiting the Cook Islands they laid claim to being the original Maori culture as that is where the nz maori canoes sailed from. Would a cook islander be eligible for this game or only nz’ers?

No, the term Maori comes from 'normal' as to distinguish from the white people. (Before the arrival of non Maori in NZ people were defined by Iwi/tribe/hapu/sub-tribe.)

Cook Islanders are Cook Island Maori. They're not eligible for a NZ Maori team unless they are of mixed heritage - which a bunch are.

Maohi is also used in French Polynesia to define the people sometimes.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

What Matua said. The various island people’s are as separate and distinct as the European nationalities.

 

[shinobi]

No, the term Maori comes from 'normal' as to distinguish from the white people. (Before the arrival of non Maori in NZ people were defined by Iwi/tribe/hapu/sub-tribe.)

Cook Islanders are Cook Island Maori. They're not eligible for a NZ Maori team unless they are of mixed heritage - which a bunch are.

Maohi is also used in French Polynesia to define the people sometimes.

Maoli in Hawai'i. Having said that Maori are directly related to Cook islanders and then further back Samoans and Tongans. We are a polynesian people after all. Polynesian all star game couldve been cool as well.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

Of course you do, but I don't know what it is, I don't know you. Whatever it is, it's not 'white', that's not a culture it's a skin colour.

The only culture I count myself a part of is Australian. I'm 1/16 English and 1/16 Danish, but my family has never kept in touch with any 'culture' that comes from that ancestry. I could claim to be if I really wanted, but I don't. The town near where I live, Griffith, has a substantial Italian culture, and for people like that there are teams like 'Italian Australians', 'Maltese Australians' 'Latin Heat', 'Fijian Australians' etc. There is no general Australian 'white culture', what would that be, anyone white guy in Australia that drinks beer, watches footy and has a southern cross tattoo?

The point is saying a Maori team is the same as having a 'white' team is f**king geniused, the equivalent to having a white team would be having a general 'coloured' team.

I don’t want a ‘white team’, for the record. I don’t want any ethnic team that I’d qualify for and I’m happy for their to be a Maori team. I was just questioning the logic of what you said.

I am about as ‘New Zealander’ as you get, but if you discount ‘New Zealander’ as an ethnicity and trace it all the way back, I’m about 80% English. I’d say that’s quite common for ‘boring white guys’ like me. We don’t come from nowhere.

I have no interest in identifying as English, I’m just questioning the logic of why I couldn’t, if Maori can identify as Maori because (some of) their ancestors are part of the group that came to NZ several hundred years ago? Maori culture/ethnicity doesn’t actually go back as far as English to the best of my knowledge, or at best it’s uncertain. So my English culture/ethnicity has disappeared because of several generations spent in NZ, but Maori culture/ethnicity persists forever no matter how long they spend as New Zealanders?

I don’t think this all needs to be so contentious tbh, it’s just an interesting discussion point. Obviously I appreciate that due to historical marginalisation of Maori, there is more need to celebrate the culture and the ethnicity. That doesn’t mean ‘whitey’ doesn’t have an ethnicity though.

 

[unforgiven]

I don’t want a ‘white team’, for the record. I don’t want any ethnic team that I’d qualify for and I’m happy for their to be a Maori team. I was just questioning the logic of what you said.

I am about as ‘New Zealander’ as you get, but if you discount ‘New Zealander’ as an ethnicity and trace it all the way back, I’m about 80% English. I’d say that’s quite common for ‘boring white guys’ like me. We don’t come from nowhere.

I have no interest in identifying as English, I’m just questioning the logic of why I couldn’t, if Maori can identify as Maori because (some of) their ancestors are part of the group that came to NZ several hundred years ago? Maori culture/ethnicity doesn’t actually go back as far as English to the best of my knowledge, or at best it’s uncertain. So my English culture/ethnicity has disappeared because of several generations spent in NZ, but Maori culture/ethnicity persists forever no matter how long they spend as New Zealanders?

I don’t think this all needs to be so contentious tbh, it’s just an interesting discussion point. Obviously I appreciate that due to historical marginalisation of Maori, there is more need to celebrate the culture and the ethnicity. That doesn’t mean ‘whitey’ doesn’t have an ethnicity though.

Your last point is probably the most important of this whole thread, the English culture of your background is prevalent in everyday society in New Zealand and Australia. Our societies were founded on English culture, our laws, social practices, norms and traditions were all dictated by English culture. Those foundations may be being diluted to a certain extent 200 years in by multiculturalism but they are still the dominant foundations of our society.

The Aboriginal people of Australia had their culture forcibly removed from them, many were stripped of their laws, social practices and norms and forced to conform to a culture that was not their own.

Many people complaining about this game that celebrates the culture of a disenfranchised people get to live their culture each and everyday but want to deny that disenfranchised group the opportunity to celebrate their culture on an international stage. The indigenous cultures need events such as this because the English culture that founded our countries stole their culture from them!

This is not about you and your feelings so if you don't like it don't watch!