NRL set to introduce New Zealand Maori clash with Indigenous All Stars

[Matua]

I don’t want a ‘white team’, for the record. I don’t want any ethnic team that I’d qualify for and I’m happy for their to be a Maori team. I was just questioning the logic of what you said.

I am about as ‘New Zealander’ as you get, but if you discount ‘New Zealander’ as an ethnicity and trace it all the way back, I’m about 80% English. I’d say that’s quite common for ‘boring white guys’ like me. We don’t come from nowhere.

I have no interest in identifying as English, I’m just questioning the logic of why I couldn’t, if Maori can identify as Maori because (some of) their ancestors are part of the group that came to NZ several hundred years ago? Maori culture/ethnicity doesn’t actually go back as far as English to the best of my knowledge, or at best it’s uncertain. So my English culture/ethnicity has disappeared because of several generations spent in NZ, but Maori culture/ethnicity persists forever no matter how long they spend as New Zealanders?

I don’t think this all needs to be so contentious tbh, it’s just an interesting discussion point. Obviously I appreciate that due to historical marginalisation of Maori, there is more need to celebrate the culture and the ethnicity. That doesn’t mean ‘whitey’ doesn’t have an ethnicity though.

It appears you are making the choice not to identify with your English heritage (and that's completely fine as it's up to you) but you could still identify with it if you chose. You don't need to identify with as 'English' from England but you could identify as a NZer of European descent as an ethnicity if you felt like it (or white NZer of whatever you want to call it).

It's irrelevant how far an ethnicity or heritage goes back as they're not stuck in time and develop over time. The English that existed when Maori first arrived in NZ are not the same as the English of today, they have that culture as a basis and have developed from there.

A culture can exist along with another culture, I can be both Maori and a NZer (and Pakeha too) and there's no issue with you being a NZer and a white NZer. (If that makes sense? Also, I'm not sure if that relates too much to the broader discussion you were having with Springs09 as I just jumped in feet first.)

 

[kdalymc]

Who the f**k from Oz or nz would wanna ‘identify’ as white English ancestry. No prick should be happy about that

 

[siv]

Lots of European immigrants that arnt English

 

[Matua]

Lots of European immigrants that arnt English

Hmmm, So they just wouldn't identify as English then. It's not a rule.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

I don't want to identify as an ethnicity because my family has been in New Zealand for several generations on most sides and so I prefer to identify as my nationality.

Most Maori have deeper roots in New Zealand than I do so really they are even more "New Zealander" than I am. Also honestly I am probably more ethnically homogeneous than the average Maori (so I am probably more "English" than they are "Maori" if you want to make it about blood).

I was never for a moment discussing the legitimacy of this game or the many OTHER reasons why this game exists. All I'm saying is that despite the evils of colonisation, white people like me still have just as much of an ethnicity as anyone else. I'm not yet at the point where I'm so ashamed of my heritage that I am going to deny the fact that it mostly derives from England.

 

[Matua]

I don't want to identify as an ethnicity because my family has been in New Zealand for several generations on most sides and so I prefer to identify as my nationality.

Most Maori have deeper roots in New Zealand than I do so really they are even more "New Zealander" than I am. Also honestly I am probably more ethnically homogeneous than the average Maori (so I am probably more "English" than they are "Maori" if you want to make it about blood).

I was never for a moment discussing the legitimacy of this game or the many OTHER reasons why this game exists. All I'm saying is that despite the evils of colonisation, white people like me still have just as much of an ethnicity as anyone else. I'm not yet at the point where I'm so ashamed of my heritage that I am going to deny the fact that it mostly derives from England.

I don't think the bold is true in the slightest. You're as much a NZer as anyone. We're all NZers despite where our ancestors came from. I don't consider my Maori parent to be more NZer than my non-Maori parent.

 

[hrundi99]

I'm happy to embrace my English, Scottish and German heritage.

I'm the descendent of a first fleet convict.

Why wouldn't I be proud of my heritage? It's my family, after all.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

I don't think the bold is true in the slightest. You're as much a NZer as anyone. We're all NZers despite where our ancestors came from. I don't consider my Maori parent to be more NZer than my non-Maori parent.

I don't either really, I'm just making the point that Maori are very much "New Zealanders"

The logic I was arguing against is that Maori are New Zealanders + Maori, but "white people" are just New Zealanders. "White people" are New Zealanders + their ethnicities, just like Maori. Just like every human on earth.

 

[Perth Red]

If they ever come up with Yorkshire v all stars I'm in!