NRL set to introduce New Zealand Maori clash with Indigenous All Stars

[Valheru]

There you go again, stating Maori aren't a nation. They are as much a nation as the cook Islands, England, Wales and Scotland. All "nations" "inside" a larger nation.

I haven't said any such thing but nation is more closely related to sovereign state in this discussion with Cook islands the only one being so in the above. England, Wales and Scotland have geographical boundaries.

Anyways, I am 100% certain you know far more than me about the history of NZ, Maori culture etc. etc. but the point is that these 2 teams are picked based on race/culture. Is that a bad thing? Not necessarily so but not sure why people want to deny it.

You're on an odd track here. Nationality and culture aren't the same. Furthermore culture isn't zero sum.

Kayln Ponga is both Maori and a Queenslander/Australian, however, representing Australia doesn't mean he's representing Maori culture.

Is there any reason why he can't be representing the Maori people when he plays for Australia? As you say, nationality and culture aren't the same.

I would imagine most international athletes would be in the same boat. Moeen Ali, for example sees himself as representing both his Muslim culture and British ancestry when he plays cricket for England...

 

[The Great Dane]

Or Maori describes a nation of people within another nation. The Native Americans have this, The cook Islands have this. Scotland, Wales and England have this. Who are you to say that Maori don't?

I never said that the Maori don't...

 

[Valheru]

Why are you so against these minority groups having an opportunity to celebrate and showcase their culture? What are you so scared of?

I'm not explicitly against it.

Just pointing out that it is sporting teams picked based on race/culture. Not sure why that fact has caused such a commotion.

 

[Matua]

I haven't said any such thing but nation is more closely related to sovereign state in this discussion with Cook islands the only one being so in the above. England, Wales and Scotland have geographical boundaries.

Anyways, I am 100% certain you know far more than me about the history of NZ, Maori culture etc. etc. but the point is that these 2 teams are picked based on race/culture. Is that a bad thing? Not necessarily so but not sure why people want to deny it.



Is there any reason why he can't be representing the Maori people when he plays for Australia? As you say, nationality and culture aren't the same.

I would imagine most international athletes would be in the same boat. Moeen Ali, for example sees himself as representing both his Muslim culture and British ancestry when he plays cricket for England...

What? How is representing Australia representing Maori? One has nothing to do with the other.

 

[King hit]

Josh Jackson will get it for 60m running and 14 tackles, just because Sterlo and Gould said "he had a good game"

Slaters man of the series award has killed any Jackson jokes for good.

 

[unforgiven]

I'm not explicitly against it.

Just pointing out that it is sporting teams picked based on race/culture. Not sure why that fact has caused such a commotion.

No one here has denied that the teams are picked according to race, that's the whole idea. What is being denied is the people arguing that picking such teams is racism.

 

[The Great Dane]

No one here has denied that the teams are picked according to race, that's the whole idea. What is being denied is the people arguing that picking such teams is racism.

Ask yourself what would have been the reaction if it had been announced that the NRL was going to have a European heritage team? I think we both know what would have happened, it would have been widely panned as insensitive, racist, and maybe even a display of white supremacy, and herein lies the real problem, double standards.

Double standards are a terrible thing cause it only leads to resentment within a portion of the population, and as those double standards become more and more pronounced that resentment will only grow, and put simply as a society you don't want large swathes of your population resenting other parts of the population cause resentment breeds hatred, and hatred leads to all sorts of terrible outcomes...

Look, this game in of it's self isn't that big a deal, but it is a symptom of bigger cultural problems, bigger cultural problems that for all sorts of reasons rational people refuse to actually address instead preferring to brush them off as the concerns of crazies, the problem with that is that then only the crazies are addressing those problems and that leads people looking for answers and/or for a solution strait to the crazies (Pauline Hanson and Fraser Anning types) cause they are the only people addressing the problems, and their solutions aren't solutions at but further compound the issues, I'm sure you can see how that might be a problem.

So basically all I'm saying is that the NRL is walking into a social and political minefield and that they should be very careful in doing so.

 

[Matua]

So basically all I'm saying is that the NRL is walking into a social and political minefield and that they should be very careful in doing so.

Why do say this like it's something new they're doing when the Indigenous team has been around for at least 10 years now?

Edit: Also, I think you're seriously underrating the fans at this current time - I think most are happy to see this type of game go ahead. The people who whine about this are going to find other avenues to whine about and will never be happy so there's no point pandering to them.

You may think it's double standards but I expect most fans will see it as an effort by the NRL to promote a marginalised group in society (which has also been happening for 10 years) and having them play another cultural team rather than thrown together World or NRL XIII's.

 

[unforgiven]

Ask yourself what would have been the reaction if it had been announced that the NRL was going to have a European heritage team? I think we both know what would have happened, it would have been widely panned as insensitive, racist, and maybe even a display of white supremacy, and herein lies the real problem, double standards.

Double standards are a terrible thing cause it only leads to resentment within a portion of the population, and as those double standards become more and more pronounced that resentment will only grow, and put simply as a society you don't want large swathes of your population resenting other parts of the population cause resentment breeds hatred, and hatred leads to all sorts of terrible outcomes...

Look, this game in of it's self isn't that big a deal, but it is a symptom of bigger cultural problems, bigger cultural problems that for all sorts of reasons rational people refuse to actually address instead preferring to brush them off as the concerns of crazies, the problem with that is that then only the crazies are addressing those problems and that leads people looking for answers and/or for a solution strait to the crazies (Pauline Hanson and Fraser Anning types) cause they are the only people addressing the problems, and their solutions aren't solutions at but further compound the issues, I'm sure you can see how that might be a problem.

So basically all I'm saying is that the NRL is walking into a social and political minefield and that they should be very careful in doing so.

No this sums up your position beautifully and that is the problem and what I expected was your agenda behind this. This only leads to resentment in people like yourself, people who believe that a disadvantaged and disillusioned group should not have access to advantages in our society to try and right the extreme obstacles they have to overcome to allow them to compete on a level playing field in out country. It's the "why should someone get assistance if I am not entitled to that same assistance argument?" nicely wrapped up in the reverse racism argument and I only want what is fair for everyone, well you are not trying to overcome the 200 years of injustice to allow you to function in our society.

Providing historically disadvantaged groups with assistance is what is fair, its what we should be doing as a society.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

I don't understand why it's any sweat off anyone's sack that this game is played.

If it assists the aboriginal or Maori people in any way it's a positive.

 

[unforgiven]

I don't understand why it's any sweat off anyone's sack that this game is played.

If it assists the aboriginal or Maori people in any way it's a positive.

Because racist people don't want Aboriginal and Maori people to get advantages that they themselves can not receive.

 

[Canard]

Ask yourself what would have been the reaction if it had been announced that the NRL was going to have a European heritage team? I think we both know what would have happened, it would have been widely panned as insensitive, racist, and maybe even a display of white supremacy, and herein lies the real problem, double standards.

Double standards are a terrible thing cause it only leads to resentment within a portion of the population, and as those double standards become more and more pronounced that resentment will only grow, and put simply as a society you don't want large swathes of your population resenting other parts of the population cause resentment breeds hatred, and hatred leads to all sorts of terrible outcomes...

Look, this game in of it's self isn't that big a deal, but it is a symptom of bigger cultural problems, bigger cultural problems that for all sorts of reasons rational people refuse to actually address instead preferring to brush them off as the concerns of crazies, the problem with that is that then only the crazies are addressing those problems and that leads people looking for answers and/or for a solution strait to the crazies (Pauline Hanson and Fraser Anning types) cause they are the only people addressing the problems, and their solutions aren't solutions at but further compound the issues, I'm sure you can see how that might be a problem.

So basically all I'm saying is that the NRL is walking into a social and political minefield and that they should be very careful in doing so.

There are countless festivals in Australia celebrating all sorts of European cultures and nobody complains about it.

When in modern times has a peaceful respectful celebration of indigenous culture caused "a political minefield?" except within very fringe minority?

And your continued line that NRL fans can't be trusted to behave is pretty insulting.

 

[Canard]

Slaters man of the series award has killed any Jackson jokes for good.

Not even close. Jackson's award is the most blatant act of favouritism in the history of the game

 

[The Great Dane]

No this sums up your position beautifully and that is the problem and what I expected was your agenda behind this. This only leads to resentment in people like yourself, people who believe that a disadvantaged and disillusioned group should not have access to advantages in our society to try and right the extreme obstacles they have to overcome to allow them to compete on a level playing field in out country. It's the "why should someone get assistance if I am not entitled to that same assistance argument?" nicely wrapped up in the reverse racism argument and I only want what is fair for everyone, well you are not trying to overcome the 200 years of injustice to allow you to function in our society.

Providing historically disadvantaged groups with assistance is what is fair, its what we should be doing as a society.

Nope you haven't understood what I said at all...

Nothing I said had anything to do with people in a bad position that need help getting assistance (I do think that "advantages" is a strange term to use though, and I don't really see how a professional footy team helps anyone who is disadvantaged, but that's a whole other argument that I don't really care about), and I don't really see the point in rephrasing what I said cause you won't understand it anyway cause as you said yourself you assumed my "agenda" from the beginning, so you aren't listening to what's actually being said instead you are assuming that I am something that I am not and reading into what I am saying what you want to hear to confirm to yourself that I am that thing, so yeah there'd be no point in trying to make you understand cause you don't want to understand...

 

[Canard]

Nope you haven't understood what I said at all...

Nothing I said had anything to do with people in a bad position that need help getting assistance (I do think that "advantages" is a strange term to use though, and I don't really see how a professional footy team helps anyone who is disadvantaged, but that's a whole other argument that I don't really care about), and I don't really see the point in rephrasing what I said cause you won't understand it anyway cause as you said yourself you assumed my "agenda" from the beginning, so you aren't listening to what's actually being said instead you are assuming that I am something that I am not and reading into what I am saying what you want to hear to confirm to yourself that I am that thing, so yeah there'd be no point in trying to make you understand cause you don't want to understand...

This is drivel.

 

[The Great Dane]

There are countless festivals in Australia celebrating all sorts of European cultures and nobody complains about it.

That's a false equivalency and you know it is.

When in modern times has a peaceful respectful celebration of indigenous culture caused "a political minefield?" except within very fringe minority?

It's not the "celebration" it's self that causes the political minefield, it's the identity politics and collectivism behind it that causes the political minefield...

And your continued line that NRL fans can't be trusted to behave is pretty insulting.

Honestly I don't even know what you are talking about here.

 

[Canard]

That's a false equivalency and you know it is.



It's not the "celebration" it's self that causes the political minefield, it's the identity politics and collectivism behind it that causes the political minefield...



Honestly I don't even know what you are talking about here.

What's the minefield it causes??? Who is harmed/disadvantaged?

Try to be specific and not use weasel words

 

[The Great Dane]

This is drivel.

Lol.

Ok how is it drivel?

Cause I called him out on not actually responding to anything I said and instead assuming a position I don't hold...

 

[unforgiven]

Nope you haven't understood what I said at all...

Nothing I said had anything to do with people in a bad position that need help getting assistance (I do think that "advantages" is a strange term to use though, and I don't really see how a professional footy team helps anyone who is disadvantaged, but that's a whole other argument that I don't really care about), and I don't really see the point in rephrasing what I said cause you won't understand it anyway cause as you said yourself you assumed my "agenda" from the beginning, so you aren't listening to what's actually being said instead you are assuming that I am something that I am not and reading into what I am saying what you want to hear to confirm to yourself that I am that thing, so yeah there'd be no point in trying to make you understand cause you don't want to understand...

Mate it is exactly what you said. You can not see how this game is beneficial for the the Aboriginal and Maori communities? https://www.indigenous.gov.au/learn-earn-legend-sparks-passion-for-education-in-indigenous-youth that program has been supported and promoted through this game for a number of years now. You don't think making our indigenous people the centre of a major sporting event is beneficial to inspiring young indigenous people to strive for their own goals in life? Have you seen the time the Aboriginal team spends with Aboriginal communities? I guess that is of no benefit either? You don't think Racists seeing indigenous people in a positive light and environment is beneficial? Maybe some people can not see past their own prejudice.

 

[Canard]

Lol.

Ok how is it drivel?

Cause I called him out on not actually responding to anything I said and instead assuming a position I don't hold...

Pure drivel.

Once again

What's the minefield it causes??? Who is harmed/disadvantaged?

Try to be specific and not use weasel words