NRL's growth mindset points to 18th team. And it ain't Perth.

[MugaB]

By us you mean WA pirates?

 

[The Great Dane]

population is hardly any bigger than central coast and is rusted on union, what makes you think it could sustain a $30million a year nrl club? Crusaders won the comp in 19 and struggled to fill their small stadium. The suggestion in the article is the game needs and ther team in Auckland. Given the state of the Warriors I’d think it’s the last thing thing they would want!

Whether or not a second team in NZ is viable really depends on what broadcasters in NZ would be willing to pay for it and what backing the club has.

Considering how unstable the Warriors ownership has been, if I was the NRL I'd probably look to build and own the club in house and then sell it once it's well established. At least initially that would make it a pretty expensive, and risky, exercise for the NRL, but would also give it the best chance of succeeding and the NRL the control to make sure it has the least impact on the Warriors as possible.

Doing it that way would probably put the NZRL's noise out of joint as well, but who really cares about the NZRL's opinion at this point.

Whichever way you slice it a team in Perth will probably still be a significantly better option commercially than a 2nd team in NZ, but V'landys has proven to be irrational when it comes to "the AFL heartlands", so as long as he is in charge I guess it just is what it is.

 

[MugaB]

For me, i agree with the NRL and Abdo, we should be looking at 18th team in NZ but one to share Auckland, then get a game every weekend, same as 17th team in brisbane, then after get PNG and WA involved get up to 20 teams, 4 conferences play All teams once, then conference teams twice, it would make the top 8 more harder to aspire to
Then any team (not just sydney based) that are in trouble, will have to relocate to Gosford, Adelaide, Sunshine Coast or Christchurch.

 

[magpie_man]

It seems like an odd statement given the NZRL boss, only the other week on the Chasing Kangaroos podcast, acknowledged that NZ probably isn't ready for another professional team just yet:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/0A...i=ZFpFB8hvRkGtWnpr5VlyRg&utm_source=copy-link

From my armchair here in Western Sydney, it seems that the annual grant that would be allocated to NZ#18 could be better used propping-up a small-but-strong second tier professional/semi-professional NZ league ($13 ÷ 6 NZRL teams [3 x Auckland + Wellington + Christchurch + Dunedin]).

 

[The Great Dane]

For me, i agree with the NRL and Abdo, we should be looking at 18th team in NZ but one to share Auckland, then get a game every weekend

I don't claim to be an expert on NZ, but even I am willing to categorically state that there's no way in hell that Auckland could realistically support two clubs.

Maybe if the Warriors were kicking arse and there was some measurable demand in the city for another team we could talk about a second team in Auckland, but that simply isn't the case.

If there's another club in NZ in the next 10-20 years it'll almost certainly be in either Christchurch or Wellington.

 

[flippikat]

It seems like an odd statement given the NZRL boss, only the other week on the Chasing Kangaroos podcast, acknowledged that NZ probably isn't ready for another professional team just yet:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/0A...i=ZFpFB8hvRkGtWnpr5VlyRg&utm_source=copy-link

From my armchair here in Western Sydney, it seems that the annual grant that would be allocated to NZ#18 could be better used propping-up a small-but-strong second tier professional/semi-professional NZ league ($13 ÷ 6 NZRL teams [3 x Auckland + Wellington + Christchurch + Dunedin]).

Despite their great stadium, Dunedin isn't as big as some of the cities in the NI, and not really a RL stronghold.. more value in the Auckland/Hamilton/Bay of Plenty "golden triangle" with bigger cities & more RL being played there.

A 6-team NZ league would probably be:

Central Auckland (some games in Whangarei for Northland)
South Auckland (some games maybe in Pukekohe)
Waikato - 1 team (Hamilton, some games in New Plymouth)
Bay of Plenty - 1 team (Rotorua, some games in Tauranga)
Wellington - 1 team (Some games in Palmerston North or Hawkes Bay)
Christchurch - 1 team (some games elsewhere in South Island)

RL is strongest in Auckland, Waikato/BOP, Wellington & Christchurch.
All other places would have to be sub-markets of those teams.

 

[MugaB]

Despite their great stadium, Dunedin isn't as big as some of the cities in the NI, and not really a RL stronghold.. more value in the Auckland/Hamilton/Bay of Plenty "golden triangle" with bigger cities & more RL being played there.

A 6-team NZ league would probably be:

Central Auckland (some games in Whangarei for Northland)
South Auckland (some games maybe in Pukekohe)
Waikato - 1 team (Hamilton, some games in New Plymouth)
Bay of Plenty - 1 team (Rotorua, some games in Tauranga)
Wellington - 1 team (Some games in Palmerston North or Hawkes Bay)
Christchurch - 1 team (some games elsewhere in South Island)

RL is strongest in Auckland, Waikato/BOP, Wellington & Christchurch.
All other places would have to be sub-markets of those teams.

Rivalries in a stronghold presence is what the NRL are looking for, thats Brisbane and Auckland

 

[magpie_man]

Despite their great stadium, Dunedin isn't as big as some of the cities in the NI, and not really a RL stronghold.. more value in the Auckland/Hamilton/Bay of Plenty "golden triangle" with bigger cities & more RL being played there.

A 6-team NZ league would probably be:

Central Auckland (some games in Whangarei for Northland)
South Auckland (some games maybe in Pukekohe)
Waikato - 1 team (Hamilton, some games in New Plymouth)
Bay of Plenty - 1 team (Rotorua, some games in Tauranga)
Wellington - 1 team (Some games in Palmerston North or Hawkes Bay)
Christchurch - 1 team (some games elsewhere in South Island)

RL is strongest in Auckland, Waikato/BOP, Wellington & Christchurch.
All other places would have to be sub-markets of those teams.

Thanks for the insight mate

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Maybe it’s time for us to relook at joining Superleague!

Merge the QRL with Super League and add West Coast Pirates. Make the GF a best of 3 series, with 1st game at Old Trafford, 2nd at Lang Park and 3rd at Wembley.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

For me, i agree with the NRL and Abdo, we should be looking at 18th team in NZ but one to share Auckland, then get a game every weekend, same as 17th team in brisbane, then after get PNG and WA involved get up to 20 teams, 4 conferences play All teams once, then conference teams twice, it would make the top 8 more harder to aspire to
Then any team (not just sydney based) that are in trouble, will have to relocate to Gosford, Adelaide, Sunshine Coast or Christchurch.

2 pro RL teams in Auckland vs the Auckland Blues RU team, in NZ's only sizeable city, could be a huge boon for our game. It could fail too, but it would have the NZRU looking over its shoulders as its biggest city is saturated with RL every week.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I think there’s credit in the long game theory, but I’d say do it to another team. I’m of the opinion that merged Sydney teams should be looked after at all costs. They made the tough call 23 years ago for the benefit of the game. Move others that dug their heels in or demerged a partner out.

Wests are the only Sydney team that can appeal to two markets without tinkering with their brand too much. Going from Wests Tigers to Western Magpies would be good for the old Magpies fans and RL fans in Perth.

 

[mongoose]

I like the idea of a second NZ team and it makes a lot of sense but I feel the Warriors need to be consistently making finals and should probably have a premiership under their belts first. They need that level of success that really solidifies a fanbase. Having 2 NZ teams that are forever underachievers and can't build a winning culture probably won't be good for the game over there.

 

[LeagueXIII]

Here's what NZRL CEO Greg Peters said on the Chasing Kangaroos podcast recently:

https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/ep-102-kiwi-boss/id1441882710?i=1000510312928

 

[T-Boon]

I think there’s credit in the long game theory, but I’d say do it to another team. I’m of the opinion that merged Sydney teams should be looked after at all costs. They made the tough call 23 years ago for the benefit of the game. Move others that dug their heels in or demerged a partner out.

100%
That is part the reason I always throw Penrith, Sharks and Dogs in as the leading contenders for relocation.

 

[The Great Dane]

I like the idea of a second NZ team and it makes a lot of sense but I feel the Warriors need to be consistently making finals and should probably have a premiership under their belts first. They need that level of success that really solidifies a fanbase. Having 2 NZ teams that are forever underachievers and can't build a winning culture probably won't be good for the game over there.

On field results should never come into what is in the best interests of the sport as a business.

The Warriors can't have all of NZ to themselves forever, and if we wait for them to be ready then the odds are we'll be waiting a very long time. Besides, the odds are just as good that the direct competition give them the kick in the arse that they need as it is that it breaks them.

 

[Diesel]

If it’s an Auckland team, I wonder if it was be a Pacifika type team.
The new team will have to be talking to the Dragons on how to manage multiple markets and home grounds. Any new NZ team will be a Wellington/Christchurch based team.the only issue with a Wellington is the Cake Tin

 

[The Great Dane]

Despite their great stadium, Dunedin isn't as big as some of the cities in the NI, and not really a RL stronghold.. more value in the Auckland/Hamilton/Bay of Plenty "golden triangle" with bigger cities & more RL being played there.

A 6-team NZ league would probably be:

Central Auckland (some games in Whangarei for Northland)
South Auckland (some games maybe in Pukekohe)
Waikato - 1 team (Hamilton, some games in New Plymouth)
Bay of Plenty - 1 team (Rotorua, some games in Tauranga)
Wellington - 1 team (Some games in Palmerston North or Hawkes Bay)
Christchurch - 1 team (some games elsewhere in South Island)

RL is strongest in Auckland, Waikato/BOP, Wellington & Christchurch.
All other places would have to be sub-markets of those teams.

Splitting home games between venues is silly at the best of times, but it'd be especially silly in a lower tier competition with much stricter budgets and less resources at their disposal.

Unless you've got local governments or event organisers lined up to underwrite it (which I'd imagine is unlikely), it would balloon rent, travel, catering, etc, costs making operating a team significantly more expensive, which is a bad thing for lower tiers where the clubs need to be run cheap if they are to be viable.

The idea of the NRL and a broadcast partner starting a second tier national competition in NZ is a good one though, if it was commercially viable of course. Again they'd probably piss the NZRL off if they attempted it, but who really cares.

 

[The Great Dane]

If it’s an Auckland team, I wonder if it was be a Pacifika type team.
The new team will have to be talking to the Dragons on how to manage multiple markets and home grounds. Any new NZ team will be a Wellington/Christchurch based team.the only issue with a Wellington is the Cake Tin

Frankly we shouldn't be considering markets unless they have rectangular stadiums. It's simply not worth the added risk.

If Wellington wants to build a rectangular stadium to attract an NRL team (and I imagine the Hurricanes and Phoenix would be onboard as well) then great, otherwise there're perfectly good potential home grounds in Christchurch, Hamilton, etc.

Actually the NRL building and owning the only purpose built rectangular stadium in a city like Wellington would be a solid investment, but they don't think like that at the NRL.

 

[Jamberoo]

Frankly we shouldn't be considering markets unless they have rectangular stadiums. It's simply not worth the added risk.

If Wellington wants to build a rectangular stadium to attract an NRL team (and I imagine the Hurricanes and Phoenix would be onboard as well) then great, otherwise there're perfectly good potential home grounds in Christchurch, Hamilton, etc.

Actually the NRL building and owning the only purpose built rectangular stadium in a city like Wellington would be a solid investment, but they don't think like that at the NRL.

$200m+ for a 20k - 25k stadium. How would that be a solid investment?

 

[The Great Dane]

$200m+ for a 20k - 25k stadium. How would that be a solid investment?

At least 3 regular tenants (assuming an NRL team is launched there), certainly other renters (concerts, conferences, etc), retail and other facilities could be built into it, if you did it right you'd own the parking space, etc, etc. In the right city under the right circumstances owning a stadium can be very profitable.

In a place like Wellington if the NRL built a rectangular stadium they'd own the only rectangular stadium in the city big enough to host pro-sports, and it'd be the most modern stadium in the city. Assuming that their rent was competitive with the Cake Tin (and by rights it should be, because it'd be smaller and maintenance on rectangular stadiums is less expensive than ovals in general), their competitors would be paying them to use it and it'd pay it's self off relatively quickly (probably within a decade or two assuming that you did it right).

Basically, if the NRL were going to invest in a stadium (which has been talked about before) Wellington would be a pretty good place to build it.