NRL's growth mindset points to 18th team. And it ain't Perth.

[Vee]

Firstly it's two, there're reasonable bids in Brisbane.

Secondly, bids aren't the be all and end all.

If the NRL wanted teams in Adelaide or NZ they could make it happen overnight.

Yeah, sure.

Where's the eye roll emoji?

 

[The Great Dane]

Redcliffe are going to adopt a broad name to cover the region and play out of Lang Park, so you couldn't be any further from the truth.

We've been over this ground one hundred times, unless they get rid of the Dolphins brand it won't make a lick of difference.

Everything you suggest flies in the face of the observed behaviour humans and how they interact through tribal politics. In other words you are simply wrong, and what you suggest will fail no matter how much you hope that it won't.

You're always going on about how no one under 35 cares about the BRL, yet now you're saying there's lots of hate for the Dolphins. Make up your mind, FFS!

Nobody does care about the BRL, it's a long dead league that is irrelevant to modern discussions.

They do however care deeply about their clubs.

See that is what makes you unusual compared to the average person, you identify with the BRL over any individual club, whereas most people identify with the club over the league.

 

[The Great Dane]

Yeah, sure.

Where's the eye roll emoji?

Where were the bids for GWS and the GC Suns?

The AFL wanted those markets, they had the means to make it happen, so they went with a central ownership model and just made it happen. The NRL could do the same or similar in a heartbeat if they really wanted to.

Of course they don't really want to because they are way to short sighted and parochial, but that doesn't change the fact that Adelaide or NZ2 would be better options than a club from a tiny isolated peninsula on the outskirts of Brisbane playing in a stadium 40k from their target audience.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

We've been over this ground one hundred times, unless they get rid of the Dolphins brand it won't make a lick of difference.

Everything you suggest flies in the face of the observed behaviour humans and how they interact through tribal politics. In other words you are simply wrong, and what you suggest will fail no matter how much you hope that it won't.

Nobody does care about the BRL, it's a long dead league that is irrelevant to modern discussions.

They do however care deeply about their clubs.

See that is what makes you unusual compared to the average person, you identify with the BRL over any individual club, whereas most people identify with the club over the league.

Bombers had everything you've been championing. It was the most hated bid. Dolphins have support.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Where were the bids for GWS and the GC Suns?

The AFL wanted those markets, they had the means to make it happen, so they went with a central ownership model and just made it happen. The NRL could do the same or similar in a heartbeat if they really wanted to.

Of course they don't really want to because they are way to short sighted and parochial, but that doesn't change the fact that Adelaide or NZ2 would be better options than a club from a tiny isolated peninsula on the outskirts of Brisbane playing in a stadium 40k from their target audience.

Fremantle and Port Adelaide do alright. Melbourne Heart/City have always been a failure.

 

[Jamberoo]

Where were the bids for GWS and the GC Suns?

The AFL wanted those markets, they had the means to make it happen, so they went with a central ownership model and just made it happen. The NRL could do the same or similar in a heartbeat if they really wanted to.

Of course they don't really want to because they are way to short sighted and parochial, but that doesn't change the fact that Adelaide or NZ2 would be better options than a club from a tiny isolated peninsula on the outskirts of Brisbane playing in a stadium 40k from their target audience.

Correct. The AFL has never had bidding for a an expansion team.They would not allow them the control needed to ensure it is done right. For Brisbane 2, they would simply decide the point of difference compared to the Broncos, appoint some experienced administrators to set everything up, decide on the location of the club, get some government grants and sponsors themselves and make it happen. In Perth and Adelaide the second teams were aimed at the working class (both teams have the docks/port workers as part of their history) as a point of difference from the Chardonnay set at the Eagles and Crows. It worked. For Fremantle they combined the colours of East Freo and South Freo clubs for the jumper even though neither WAFL club was actually involved in the new club. They dropped those colours and went all purple 15 years later.
What kind of people might be the early fans of Bris 2? Or will location be the only point of difference?

 

[The Great Dane]

It worked. For Fremantle they combined the colours of East Freo and South Freo clubs for the jumper even though neither WAFL club was actually involved in the new club. They dropped those colours and went all purple 15 years later.

East Fremantle's colours are blue and white. South's red and white.

The Dockers initial colour scheme was purple, white, red, and green.

Though their was a joint bid from East and South Fremantle for an AFL license it fell through. The Dockers have nothing to do with that bid, or either of the clubs, and only ever make token references to pre-AFL Aussie Rules history in Freemantle.

 

[Jamberoo]

East Fremantle's colours are blue and white. South's red and white.

The Dockers initial colour scheme was purple, white, red, and green.

Though their was a joint bid from East and South Fremantle for an AFL license it fell through. The Dockers have nothing to do with that bid, or either of the clubs, and only ever make token references to pre-AFL Aussie Rules history in Freemantle.

Freo have worn both Red and White jumper ms and Blue and White jumpers in Heritage round, no doubt to be inclusive of fans of both Freo WAFL clubs.
Anyway, that is probably enough discussion of AFL history on a RL site. Where are you from Great Dane?

 

[The Great Dane]

Freo have worn both Red and White jumper ms and Blue and White jumpers in Heritage round, no doubt to be inclusive of fans of both Freo WAFL clubs.
Anyway, that is probably enough discussion of AFL history on a RL site.

As I said token references to the history of Aussie Rules in Fremantle pre-AFL.

One of the reasons the Wests/Souths bid fell apart was because of infighting over the brand.

Where are you from Great Dane?

Canberra, why?

Are you going to pull one of those BS "you're not from x, therefore you couldn't possibly know anything about it" lines.

 

[flippikat]

Correct. The AFL has never had bidding for a an expansion team.They would not allow them the control needed to ensure it is done right. For Brisbane 2, they would simply decide the point of difference compared to the Broncos, appoint some experienced administrators to set everything up, decide on the location of the club, get some government grants and sponsors themselves and make it happen.

Spot on.

Just look at their approach to the Gold Coast. Once it became clear that North Melbourne were not going to relocate there (in spite of the AFL wishing they would), then the AFL just went ahead and put a new club there *of their OWN making* because they wanted a club there and probably just gave up on waiting for another relocation prospect.

It's a single-mindedness on expansion that's SORELY missing from the NRL.

 

[marshall stalin]

These mergers stated here are totally shït, and to leave manly and roosters unmerged without having when everyone did, makes it even worse, but clubs are underperforming in memberships crowds and junior participation, yet they are fine to stand alone, give me a break...
Norths and central coast? Who the fûck is central coast, and parra and riff, dragons&sharks are all rivals, better off keeping the northern eagles

Do you know you history of RL - Penrith were formed out of the Parra junio area and Ditto Sharks from the St George junior areas for the 1967 season and Canterbury formed out of the Wests Junior area back for the 1935 season.

Norths were relocating to the Central coast - the delay in completing the stadium had a significant impact on them in being a standalone team in a merged comp - forced to merge with Manly.

Need a team on the North side so Manly stay as - Ditto Chooks a side on the East side.

Balmain and Souffs two inner city clubs close by so able to merge if required.

Don't want to bang on how souffs vermin stole the Chooks junior areas - but they did - yes Chooks have a very small junior league area through no fault of their own - maybe look at the suburbs and you may see why not many kids would be playing footy except maybe when they play it at the private schools they attend.- They become your doctors/lawyers/bankers/it experts and what not.

Not sure if you have looked at where the urban sprawl is as of course teams like Penrith/ Wests Tigers (Macarthur area/Group 6) / Parramatta for an example will have more juniors - more suburbs and more kids out that way.

What they need to do is re-draw the junior league areas as a result of the urban sprawl.

Chooks are heavily involved on the Central Coast in partnership with the Central Coast Rugby League - Central Coast Roosters - Central Coast Roosters won both the Andrew Johns and Laurie Daley cups this year.

Sydney Roosters and Central Coast Roosters sides made the elimination finals of the Harold Matts this year - Sydney Roosters are in the semi- final of both the SG Ball and Tarsha gale cups this week as well.

Central Coast Roosters are also leading the Harvey Norman NSW Womens premiership contains many of the Sydney Roosters NRLW players.

Sydney Roosters are batting above their weight so to speak in their pathway programs for both males and females and increasing participation rates.

What you never heard of the Central Coast?

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

Spot on.

Just look at their approach to the Gold Coast. Once it became clear that North Melbourne were not going to relocate there (in spite of the AFL wishing they would), then the AFL just went ahead and put a new club there *of their OWN making* because they wanted a club there and probably just gave up on waiting for another relocation prospect.

It's a single-mindedness on expansion that's SORELY missing from the NRL.

Agreed.

I get why BrisV2 could be best managed by a bid process..... but expanding into new territories needs to be instigated and driven by the NRL.

Waiting for an unsolicited bid to review/expand into a new territory is ridiculous IMO.

The Reds & Rams were brought in by the governing body of the day. Both had great support from fans in their first year, but while this was instigated, it wasn't driven long term by the governing bodies and effectively abandoned. There were lots of positives to these clubs that just weren't capitalised on. The Storm were also an expansion club brought in by the NRL (effectively made up of the Reds & Mariners), but they differed from the Reds n Rams in that they had NRL support, a strategy, and yes a big cash injection from News.

I've got absolutely no doubt that the Reds & Rams could become "Another Melbourne" with a strong fan base and sustainable success, IF the NRL instigate the strategy and drive it. And with hindsight and strong management, it wouldn't need the level of News cash injection that the Storm got.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Do you know you history of RL - Penrith were formed out of the Parra junio area and Ditto Sharks from the St George junior areas for the 1967 season and Canterbury formed out of the Wests Junior area back for the 1935 season.

Norths were relocating to the Central coast - the delay in completing the stadium had a significant impact on them in being a standalone team in a merged comp - forced to merge with Manly.

Need a team on the North side so Manly stay as - Ditto Chooks a side on the East side.

Balmain and Souffs two inner city clubs close by so able to merge if required.

Don't want to bang on how souffs vermin stole the Chooks junior areas - but they did - yes Chooks have a very small junior league area through no fault of their own - maybe look at the suburbs and you may see why not many kids would be playing footy except maybe when they play it at the private schools they attend.- They become your doctors/lawyers/bankers/it experts and what not.

Not sure if you have looked at where the urban sprawl is as of course teams like Penrith/ Wests Tigers (Macarthur area/Group 6) / Parramatta for an example will have more juniors - more suburbs and more kids out that way.

What they need to do is re-draw the junior league areas as a result of the urban sprawl.

Chooks are heavily involved on the Central Coast in partnership with the Central Coast Rugby League - Central Coast Roosters - Central Coast Roosters won both the Andrew Johns and Laurie Daley cups this year.

Sydney Roosters and Central Coast Roosters sides made the elimination finals of the Harold Matts this year - Sydney Roosters are in the semi- final of both the SG Ball and Tarsha gale cups this week as well.

Central Coast Roosters are also leading the Harvey Norman NSW Womens premiership contains many of the Sydney Roosters NRLW players.

Sydney Roosters are batting above their weight so to speak in their pathway programs for both males and females and increasing participation rates.

What you never heard of the Central Coast?

Thank you for providing non-Sydney folk like me with a detailed explanation of the Sydney RL landscape. What you've said confirms my belief that the Sydney clubs who came in last should be the ones to relocate to Adelaide, Perth and NZ. I knew about Cronulla's area formerly being tied with St George, but I didn't know about Penrith.

It's silly to have 2 cat themed clubs in Sydney and poor brand management. I'd send Panthers to Perth where they could saddle up with the Perth Wildcats to build a community connection. Western Sydney Tigers could take over the Penrith and Canterbury area. Bulldogs can go to Christchurch. Cronulla Sharks can go to Adelaide to become the Adelaide Sharks, with the motto "Great Australian Bite" written on their jersey and written into their song. I'd merge North Sydney with Manly to form the North Sydney Sea Eagles, red and black. Hoop designed jerseys for Western Sydney, North Sydney, South Sydney and Sydney to illustrate their origins back to 1908 and establish a brand that people see in their head when they hear the names Western Sydney, South Sydney, North Sydney and Sydney. Keep the jerseys the same. They'll become iconic, not just in Australia about around the world.

 

[Jamberoo]

As I said token references to the history of Aussie Rules in Fremantle pre-AFL.

One of the reasons the Wests/Souths bid fell apart was because of infighting over the brand.

Canberra, why?

Are you going to pull one of those BS "you're not from x, therefore you couldn't possibly know anything about it" lines.

Just curious as to how your in-depth knowledge of Australia Rules history came about.

 

[mongoose]

Thank you for providing non-Sydney folk like me with a detailed explanation of the Sydney RL landscape. What you've said confirms my belief that the Sydney clubs who came in last should be the ones to relocate to Adelaide, Perth and NZ. I knew about Cronulla's area formerly being tied with St George, but I didn't know about Penrith.

It's silly to have 2 cat themed clubs in Sydney and poor brand management. I'd send Panthers to Perth where they could saddle up with the Perth Wildcats to build a community connection. Western Sydney Tigers could take over the Penrith and Canterbury area. Bulldogs can go to Christchurch. Cronulla Sharks can go to Adelaide to become the Adelaide Sharks, with the motto "Great Australian Bite" written on their jersey and written into their song. I'd merge North Sydney with Manly to form the North Sydney Sea Eagles, red and black. Hoop designed jerseys for Western Sydney, North Sydney, South Sydney and Sydney to illustrate their origins back to 1908 and establish a brand that people see in their head when they hear the names Western Sydney, South Sydney, North Sydney and Sydney. Keep the jerseys the same. They'll become iconic, not just in Australia about around the world.

None of that is going to happen though so why keep pushing these fanciful ideas? Panthers are definitely not going to relocate. They have the best setup in Sydney, best facilities and huge junior nursery. Canterbury are stinking rich and have a huge fanbase (for sydney NRL teams), they just suck at the moment. Sharks have dug their heels in and if they haven't been relocated by now its never going to happen. The Manly idea isn't bad but it's also very unlikely.

 

[Hartwood]

None of that is going to happen though so why keep pushing these fanciful ideas? Panthers are definitely not going to relocate. They have the best setup in Sydney, best facilities and huge junior nursery. Canterbury are stinking rich and have a huge fanbase (for sydney NRL teams), they just suck at the moment. Sharks have dug their heels in and if they haven't been relocated by now its never going to happen. The Manly idea isn't bad but it's also very unlikely.

Agreed, leave the Sydney teams as they are, any change will do more harm than good. Sea Eagles dont need to be renamed but encompassing the entire North Sydney region with a more centrally located stadium would be ideal

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

None of that is going to happen though so why keep pushing these fanciful ideas? Panthers are definitely not going to relocate. They have the best setup in Sydney, best facilities and huge junior nursery. Canterbury are stinking rich and have a huge fanbase (for sydney NRL teams), they just suck at the moment. Sharks have dug their heels in and if they haven't been relocated by now its never going to happen. The Manly idea isn't bad but it's also very unlikely.

I talk about it because Sydney is holding the game back with its pre-1982 footprint. The brands and geographical spread they have are so backwards and counterproductive it makes the sport look like it was put together by a bunch of Neanderthals who just learnt how to make fire from rubbing 2 sticks together. It's no wonder the yuppies from the Sydney CBD, North Shore and Northern Beaches don't want to have a bar of it. They're always calling Queensland backwards, yet our teams are lightyears ahead of theirs in terms of branding, stadia and viewer support. If it wasn't for the QRL we wouldn't have Origin because the hicks down at the NSWRL and Sydney media thought it was "stupid" and "crazy". If we want the game to grow we need to get these hicks out of the head office and put people in charge who know what they're doing and don't have any emotional attachment to Sydney.

 

[MugaB]

I talk about it because Sydney is holding the game back with its pre-1982 footprint. The brands and geographical spread they have are so backwards and counterproductive it makes the sport look like it was put together by a bunch of Neanderthals who just learnt how to make fire from rubbing 2 sticks together. It's no wonder the yuppies from the Sydney CBD, North Shore and Northern Beaches don't want to have a bar of it. They're always calling Queensland backwards, yet our teams are lightyears ahead of theirs in terms of branding, stadia and viewer support. If it wasn't for the QRL we wouldn't have Origin because the hicks down at the NSWRL and Sydney media thought it was "stupid" and "crazy". If we want the game to grow we need to get these hicks out of the head office and put people in charge who know what they're doing and don't have any emotional attachment to Sydney.

Same could be said for the Qcup growing out of the BRL, i mean why isn't there 2 or 3 PNG teams by now, and brisbane has 6 teams there, thats too much.... its dug into your brain this stupid idea that there are limitations, and that sydney clubs hold back the whole competition.... they ARE the Competition, and the interstate teams had been invited into it, same as AFL, so please fück up, and go to the AFL thread and spill your Büllshit there, no one team is relocating, unless they choose to, and AFL has 3 cat themed teams, who cares... Qcuo has 2 seagull teams again WGAF, no wonder the NRL don't want a Logan based team, there all morons

 

[MugaB]

Do you know you history of RL - Penrith were formed out of the Parra junio area and Ditto Sharks from the St George junior areas for the 1967 season and Canterbury formed out of the Wests Junior area back for the 1935 season.

Norths were relocating to the Central coast - the delay in completing the stadium had a significant impact on them in being a standalone team in a merged comp - forced to merge with Manly.

Balmain and Souffs two inner city clubs close by so able to merge if required.

Don't want to bang on how souffs vermin stole the Chooks junior areas - but they did - yes Chooks have a very small junior league area through no fault of their own - maybe look at the suburbs and you may see why not many kids would be playing footy except maybe when they play it at the private schools they attend.- They become your doctors/lawyers/bankers/it experts and what not.

Not sure if you have looked at where the urban sprawl is as of course teams like Penrith/ Wests Tigers (Macarthur area/Group 6) / Parramatta for an example will have more juniors - more suburbs and more kids out that way.

What they need to do is re-draw the junior league areas as a result of the urban sprawl.

What you never heard of the Central Coast?

I know my history, and this discussion has zero to do with WHERE the club came from, and also zero to do with the mergers you offered up.
The Norths area was a large junior area that played league, and all funneled into only one north sydney club, in 1947 manly grew out of their approval, i bet 60 years on they would have regretted that decision.
St.George went in a premiership run for over a decade in the late 50s, the talent was so good, they decided on having cronulla enter in 1967 to give more local talent more options,
Penrith always had a competition, just not in 1st grade, you mistaken Wentworthville as they were considered , due to their talented reserve graders in 1967 along with a cronulla licence, but since Wentworthville was so close to Parramatta, they didn't want to stretch the talent in that area, as it wasn't as promising as southern sydney,
Penrith being a greater distance 30+km away from Parramatta got the nod.

As for Central Coast, roosters using them as a feeder club, is no difference to manly using bkacktown, or canberra and mounties. Its not a merger hich is why i mentioned "WHO THE Fück" is Central Coast, as there isn't a 1st side to merge with.

As for Penrith/Wests/Parramatta juniors having more kids, which is totally the case, then why would suggest merging any of these teams together, read your original post from weeks ago, you suggested souths and tigers, both have huge junior bases, and parra and penrith again even bigger junior bases.. keeping them all seperate gives each area a pathway straight to 1st grade, not congested by having twice as much players vying for the same merged club.
Another reason i asked roosters on their own and manly on their own is bullshit, as they both service bugger all area compared the the 7 other clubs in sydney.... yet your bias opinion suggest that they needec to remain seperate.

If the doctors/IT experts/ Lawyers etc have kids not playing in their local area, why does that area need a club for...
Histories sake? bondi doesnt need a team, northern sydney does

 

[baselinepanther]

Where were the bids for GWS and the GC Suns?

The AFL wanted those markets, they had the means to make it happen, so they went with a central ownership model and just made it happen. The NRL could do the same or similar in a heartbeat if they really wanted to.

Of course they don't really want to because they are way to short sighted and parochial, but that doesn't change the fact that Adelaide or NZ2 would be better options than a club from a tiny isolated peninsula on the outskirts of Brisbane playing in a stadium 40k from their target audience.

their target audience is anyone in brisbane who doesn't follow the broncos or another club

how many times do you need to be told , they'll be the Brisbane Dolphins
not Redcliffe