NRL's growth mindset points to 18th team. And it ain't Perth.

[Colk]

Adelaide is nothing

What it doesn’t exist? I’ll let them know.

 

[Colk]

Afl always has a presence in Queensland. Learn history

Also always have had. Learn grammar

 

[flippikat]

Adelaide is nothing

You think a market of over 1 million people in one city is nothing?

Words fail me.

 

[Pippen94]

So does Rugby League in Perth, yet you don’t mention that.

No where near that extent. Lots of NSW & qld players in afl.

 

[Colk]

No where near that extent. Lots of NSW & qld players in afl.

You really are disingenuous.

When the Brisbane Bears were admitted in the VFL in the 1980’s how many fumbleball players came from QLD? My guess wouldn’t have been that many.

 

[Colk]

You think a market of over 1 million people in one city is nothing?

Words fail me.

He just limits himself to anchoring logic.

 

[Perth Red]

Afl always has a presence in Queensland. Learn history

and RL has had a presence in WA for 75 years.
in 1950 WA played against GB
In 1951 WA played against France
In 1962 WA state side played against parramatta
In 1990 registered players hit 10k in WA
in 1994 WA formed its first professional club
in 1998 all that hard work was pissed down the drain
2010 the game gets back on its feet
2012 hbf park is upgraded ready for an nrl team
2016 kanagroos v kiwis sells out at hbf park
2018 nrl double header attracts 39k to optus stadium
2019 origin sells out at 60k optus stadium
2022 origin sells out again
2023 we are still waiting

to say the game has no history, presence or interest in WA is incredibly ignorant

 

[Iamback]

The junior stock simply isn't there, as much participation as both areas has, (Adelaide being a lot less) they just aren't as competetive as the east coast clubs in their comp level..
Most of you say here there needs to be a 1st grade team their to drive it as a top down approach... ala Melbourne storm... but you all forget in a city of 5 million people, they ain't getting much ground in the junior catchments or participation in Victoria even with the Storm being successful for the past 2 decades.. if Newcastle or gold coast had that kind of success, junior participation would have tripled. Top down won't work not in foreign states where the game just isn't no.1...
Perth linking with the bears over time will though as they have participation right, but not the skill level yet, and having a team there that can be competitive from day dot, will help that grow/blossom and hopefully Perth could be better than the storm in terms of expansion and junior growth, but they'll end the flogging pole if they go it alone...
I don't want that for any expansion team... that would make it a farce as much as GWS or Suns are in ALF, i want to see a proud club that can mix it with the best of them, not just be there to be counted as involved

This is the point, You need juniors from somewhere. Most locations you can get a rich sponsor to run the team, but you need a steady flow of juniors at the bottom of the club. Ideally link up with a club in NSW/QLD Cup to get the 2nd tier guys decent footy.

All that you got with the Dolphins and needs to be the model moving forward

 

[Iamback]

There isn’t interest in Perth?

Seriously sometimes I wonder why people have such a lack of ambition for the game.

Also, was there massive interest for fumbleball for a team in Brisbane prior to having a team there. They did that because they knew it would mean more money for their competition in the end

When they have a presence in QLD Cup or NSW Cup then they are serious

They exported a team from Victoria
The other team in there is a basket case and you should follow the opposite model when expanding

 

[Perth Red]

When they have a presence in QLD Cup or NSW Cup then they are serious

They exported a team from Victoria
The other team in there is a basket case and you should follow the opposite model when expanding

We had a team in jim beam cup with a plan for it to move up to nsw cup after a couple of years. We were told in no uncertain terms by Grant (I was at the meeting) to stop wasting our time and money.

 

[Iamback]

Somyo

So you’re only going to admit clubs with league clubs? Good luck with tv deals with that model of expansion lol

youve totally missed his point, if other much smaller revenue comps can afford to run a team in perth with associated travel costs why the frick can’t a $500mill a year nrl? of course it can, just more bs put out by anti expansionists! If we’d have got near afl deal we could have afforded a private jet for them lol.

nrl clubs cost $27-46million a year to run, depending on how much revenue they can generate.

How much did the SG Ball Perth team cost in flights for a 9 week comp?

You aren't just flying top squad over, You have to get junior players/2nd tier players over too

For Comparison Perth Glory has $3m Wage bill
The Youth side doesn't travel East

NBL only has 15 player rosters

Ice Hockey last season had no Perth or Adelaide in it

So logistics as a whole is difficult if you want a club with sustained success

 

[Colk]

When they have a presence in QLD Cup or NSW Cup then they are serious

They exported a team from Victoria
The other team in there is a basket case and you should follow the opposite model when expanding

It’s a chicken and the egg argument though isn’t it?

How do you expect these areas to show interest in the game if you don’t show interest in that area? For example, an analogy would be like Westfields complaining about not having enough physical customers from an area but not having any shopping centres there. It just doesn’t make sense.

You actually have to put a side in a place in order to encourage investment and development, not the other way around.

Regards to the Melbourne situation, blame the ARLC and blame the salary cap. If the game put more money into Victoria and the Storm received dispensation for scouting and identifying local talent, you would undoubtedly see more talent

The Gold Coast’s problems have got nothing to do with the fact that they are the Titans and not the Burleigh Bears for example and more to do with their management and their lack of on field success. If, hypothetically, the Dolphins remain anchored on the bottom half or quarter of the ladder for the next 10 years then their history will mean absolutely nothing.

Also, as evidenced by some on this forum from the area, they have grown up hating Redcliffe, so history or tradition is a double edged sword.

 

[Perth Red]

How much did the SG Ball Perth team cost in flights for a 9 week comp?

You aren't just flying top squad over, You have to get junior players/2nd tier players over too

For Comparison Perth Glory has $3m Wage bill
The Youth side doesn't travel East

NBL only has 15 player rosters

Ice Hockey last season had no Perth or Adelaide in it

So logistics as a whole is difficult if you want a club with sustained success

It’s all relative. nrl pays for travel Not the clubs. If you’re looking at a sg ball, reserve grade and nrl club you’re looking at around $400k investment in travel for the nrl, or 0.1% of its revenue lol.
If you still haven’t learnt that having 5 capital cities in the comp is what tv wants then can’t help you.

 

[The Great Dane]

As did mine to you

You can't just put teams in, without the infastructure in place

Those comps you mentioned don't run for 30 weeks or have $12m salary caps

I understood it just fine.

The problem with it is that it's presented as a refutation of mine when it totally fails to even address it. Your point is also nonsense. It's literally just a variation of the false catch 22 that I described with my Big Mac analogy, except you're using the lack of the existence of stores as well as a lack of sale as an excuse not to expand into a new market, which is even more moronic than the original example.

Everything has to start somewhere, and if you follow anything back to it's genesis it all starts from an idea. In other words literally everything starts from nothing. In our case that means that if there truly is some missing piece of infrastructure in Perth and/or Adelaide then pissing and moaning about it and pretending it's an insurmountable task won't change that, only starting the process of building it will. It isn't going to build it's self after all.

Of course the fact of the matter is that all the major infrastructure needed to run NRL clubs in Perth and Adelaide already exists, and the NRL could launch teams in both cities within a matter of years if they so wished.

 

[The Great Dane]

When they have a presence in QLD Cup or NSW Cup then they are serious

That will never happen because there's no way to monetise it.

Because of the structure of the second tier Perth and Adelaide sides would have to run at a significant loss to run sides in the NSW and Qld cups. In other words, unless we're talking about a backer bankrolling them they wouldn't be financially viable, and would fail within a few years, at which point you'd be using their unavoidable failure as further evidence that Perth and Adelaide sides couldn't work in the NRL...

Maybe if their entry into the NSW/Qld cup was used as a trial run for the NRL then you might get parties that are interested, but otherwise it's a pipe dream unless massive changes are made to junior development and how the lower tiers are administered. You'd also need it in writing that the teams will be granted an NRL license within X timeframe, otherwise nobody in their right mind would take that deal as they'd just be throwing away millions of dollars on a wing and a prayer.

 

[Iamback]

It’s all relative. nrl pays for travel Not the clubs. If you’re looking at a sg ball, reserve grade and nrl club you’re looking at around $400k investment in travel for the nrl, or 0.1% of its revenue lol.
If you still haven’t learnt that having 5 capital cities in the comp is what tv wants then can’t help you.

Reserve grade isn't an NRL competition though, Warriors and Storm pay for their travel, why should Perth/Adelaide get special treatment?

An extra $20m from TV does nothing if the team is running last due to having no 2nd tier structure

 

[Colk]

Reserve grade isn't an NRL competition though, Warriors and Storm pay for their travel, why should Perth/Adelaide get special treatment?

An extra $20m from TV does nothing if the team is running last due to having no 2nd tier structure

1. Who says they wouldn’t or couldn’t?

2. Money, scouting and good management is much more important to having a successful team than having a 2nd tier structure.

You could put in a side in an area like Central Coast which is a renowned junior nursery, if you will, but that area has no corporates and would struggle relatively with financing a side (see CC Mariners or even Newcastle Jets in the A-League). A side like that would more likely struggle then putting a side in areas that easily have over a million people in each and greater access to funding and corporates.

 

[Iamback]

1. Who says they wouldn’t or couldn’t?

2. Money, scouting and good management is much more important to having a successful team than having a 2nd tier structure.

You could put in a side in an area like Central Coast which is a renowned junior nursery, if you will, but that area has no corporates and would struggle relatively with financing a side (see CC Mariners or even Newcastle Jets in the A-League). A side like that would more likely struggle then putting a side in areas that easily have over a million people in each and greater access to funding and corporates.

Because QRL doesn't want a National Reserve grade comp, So NRL doesn't fund travel. The clubs are left to do it

That support doesn't sustain a poor performing team

This week Dolphins and Storm feeder teams are playing to get into the QLD Cup GF, There likely is a couple of future FG in that

Knights are in the NSW U20's GF. Already have a couple that have played NRL. Find a few more and it improves the top team, corporates etc

So you need strong lower tier structures in place to ensure support for the top team is constant

 

[Colk]

Because QRL doesn't want a National Reserve grade comp, So NRL doesn't fund travel. The clubs are left to do it

That support doesn't sustain a poor performing team

This week Dolphins and Storm feeder teams are playing to get into the QLD Cup GF, There likely is a couple of future FG in that

Knights are in the NSW U20's GF. Already have a couple that have played NRL. Find a few more and it improves the top team, corporates etc

So you need strong lower tier structures in place to ensure support for the top team is constant

Your argument is suggesting though that those areas need a strong second tier, which as other posters and I have noted, can’t ever exist if you don’t have a professional presence or have even had any interest or concern put in them. They don’t build themselves or miraculously appear of their own volition

As evidenced by the fact that the Storm reserve grade side are in the Q Cup final, scouting and identifying talent is undoubtedly more important than just having a lot of juniors, unless you are advocating a return to the structure where people could only play for an area that they lived in.

 

[Iamback]

Your argument is suggesting though that those areas need a strong second tier, which as other posters and I have noted, can’t ever exist if you don’t have a professional presence or have even had any interest or concern put in them. They don’t build themselves or miraculously appear of their own volition

As evidenced by the fact that the Storm reserve grade side are in the Q Cup final, scouting and identifying talent is undoubtedly more important than just having a lot of juniors, unless you are advocating a return to the structure where people could only play for an area that they lived in.

Mounties are in NSW Cup without a feeder arrangement. What is wrong with them linking up now?

Running a Flegg and SG Ball team together and putting a sprinkling of WA top juniors in it?

Most sides have country kids who stay home all week and only come train on Friday, Play then go home after the game

There are ways to build up talent from a far