NRL's growth mindset points to 18th team. And it ain't Perth.

[Iamback]

Australia just doesn't have the money or population for this kind of comp to work.

This article suggests that bringing back reserve grade is all Phil Goulds idea - https://pythagonrl.com/2022/03/29/homogenised-rugby-league/

Gould pretends he cares about grassroots, the bush and QLD rugby league (LOL!) but he doesn't. He cares about pathways into NRL and by NRL I mean Sydney NRL clubs.

Warriors
Knights
Dragons
Tigers
Manly
Roosters
Raiders
Panthers
Parra
Souths

All run their own reserve grade team, Whether it is organised or not it will happen. Sharks only have a single feeder team too so can add them to the list.

That is 11/17 running a single feeder team.

 

[Perth Red]

The NRLW isn't the same as a third tier comp. The player pool for NRLW is huge, TV will happily broadcast it, participation rates at junior level are through the roof and the companies wanting to be associated with Women's sport are never ending. Frankly the NRLW has only come about because the NRL see it as a license to print money, and massively grow our junior base to push for more govt funding etc.

There isn't a world where the NRL will provide any funding below Reserve Grade level for any other clubs.

It makes zero sense to think that expansion can be achieved via semi-pro/amateur teams playing third tier footy.

Has worked a treat in UK where the game and money is much smaller, and yes I know they have promotion and relegation but most fans and clubs Id suggest are realistic they wont get to Sl and if they do they are unlikely to be there long. Its been a great platform for new areas to step up. No reason we couldn't do same here

Clubs outside heartlands in tier 2 and tier 3 semi pro comps
London Broncos
Newcastle Thunder
Sheffield Eagles
Toulouse
York
Cornwall RLFC
Doncaster
London Skolars
Midland Hurricanes
North Wales Crusaders
West Wales Raiders

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

They might not die but like the Brisbane sides in QCup they will become irrelevant. The regional sides in the QCup will be in serious trouble under this proposed model

They'll end up like Valleys, Wests and Brothers.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I'm agnostic to some degree on this one but I can see that at the moment it is incredibly difficult, if not nigh on impossible, for a new area/club to join the semi pro second tier unless you have an NRL link up and/or a LC to fund it. We dont really have anywhere that is realistic for the likes of Perth, Fiji, Gosford Logan etc's of the world to develop and aim for at the moment, because what they should be aiming for is a pseudo reserve grade and therefore funding and player strength means they cant compete.

Likewise fans have shown no real interest as the competition isnt legit and is very heavily swayed by whose got the most NRL fringe players, or the teams in it are same as the NRL team so thats who you are going to watch. Just seems to me that it neither serves well as a reserve grade or as a second tier comp for the game at the moment.

I wouldn't expect Perth to be joining a reserve grade comp (unless we had an NRL club or one due shortly of course) but I would expect us to be aiming for a genuine second tier comp admission. If Pirates weren't getting in NRL and joined a legit second tier national comp I'd be there very game.

The ARLC will be happy to see these competitions die. They view them as a competitor to the NRL.

I get what you're saying about the cost of entering a team being too high. I'd prefer it if the extra $5m on top of the salary cap the NRL clubs are demanding went clubs in the Queensland and NSW Cups. It $2.5m per club could fund 34 teams across Queensland and NSW. Let the NRL clubs fund themselves since they have a platform to generate revenue from gate receipts, sponsorship and corporate hospitality. Those that cannot afford it can drop down to the state leagues.

 

[Canard]

Has worked a treat in UK where the game and money is much smaller, and yes I know they have promotion and relegation but most fans and clubs Id suggest are realistic they wont get to Sl and if they do they are unlikely to be there long. Its been a great platform for new areas to step up. No reason we couldn't do same here

Clubs outside heartlands in tier 2 and tier 3 semi pro comps
London Broncos
Newcastle Thunder
Sheffield Eagles
Toulouse
York
Cornwall RLFC
Doncaster
London Skolars
Midland Hurricanes
North Wales Crusaders
West Wales Raiders

That level of play would be a huge step down from the standard that current QCup teams play at.

And those clubs weren't created by weakening others.

 

[Perth Red]

That level of play would be a huge step down from the standard that current QCup teams play at.

And those clubs weren't created by weakening others.

You kind of missed the point. I'm not talking about standard, I'm talking about opportunity. In the UK theres clear opportunity for non heartland teams to enter semi pro comps and be sustainable and competitive and thats seen major growth outside the heartlands of these comps. We dont have that here at the moment.

I reckon a Perth team, for example made up of the best players out of NRLWA plus a smattering of imports, could compete with non NRL beefed up QRL cup teams. Bu theyd have no chance and couldnt afford to enter the current comp.

IF the NRL goes to a full reserve grade comp then it opens an opportunity for change. I honestly dont know what the positive alternative is, and from what everyone is saying its not a great potential outcome if we just leave these clubs to wither away. I, not saying it as a we should do, more as a we may need to do if things change with reserve grade (which looks inevitable)

 

[Perth Red]

The ARLC will be happy to see these competitions die. They view them as a competitor to the NRL.

I get what you're saying about the cost of entering a team being too high. I'd prefer it if the extra $5m on top of the salary cap the NRL clubs are demanding went clubs in the Queensland and NSW Cups. It $2.5m per club could fund 34 teams across Queensland and NSW. Let the NRL clubs fund themselves since they have a platform to generate revenue from gate receipts, sponsorship and corporate hospitality. Those that cannot afford it can drop down to the state leagues.

that is an interesting one. Yes I can see that but they may also see the massive risk if these clubs die off to jnr participation and development. Having a vibrant second tier in non RL club areas/cities that are producing jnr talent is actually a major plus for the NRL to develop deeper player talent pools. Losing these 18 or so clubs would be a disaster to that and see the talent pool shrink to just the NRL club regions. Even the NRL cant be that stupid can they? Sydney may be a bot different as the clubs can take over the areas but NSW regions (massively under developed) and Queensland areas are important jnr pools, or should be!

 

[Santino Patane]

They'll end up like Valleys, Wests and Brothers.

Pretty spot on analogy.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Australia just doesn't have the money or population for this kind of comp to work.

This article suggests that bringing back reserve grade is all Phil Goulds idea - https://pythagonrl.com/2022/03/29/homogenised-rugby-league/

Gould pretends he cares about grassroots, the bush and QLD rugby league (LOL!) but he doesn't. He cares about pathways into NRL and by NRL I mean Sydney NRL clubs.

Gould wants a return to the 1980s NSWRFL Premiership era.

I cannot imagine the broadcasters want Reserve grade and Colts. All NRL games are scheduled in standalone timeslots so viewers stay at home and watch them on TV. The last thing they want is people sitting at a ground for 5 to 6 hours watching Colts, Reserves and A Grade. Even if only a few hundred do it for each game, that's viewers they're shedding.

 

[Perth Red]

Gould wants a return to the 1980s NSWRFL Premiership era.

I cannot imagine the broadcasters want Reserve grade and Colts. All NRL games are scheduled in standalone timeslots so viewers stay at home and watch them on TV. The last thing they want is people sitting at a ground for 5 to 6 hours watching Colts, Reserves and A Grade. Even if only a few hundred do it for each game, that's viewers they're shedding.

Those sort of numbers are totally irrelevant to TV, it actually favours them as if they wanted to they could stream reserves, NRLW and NRL whilst they have their team at the stadium for very little extra cost. If anyone wants to watch reserve grade at 2pm on a Friday afternoon is another matter!

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Those sort of numbers are totally irrelevant to TV, it actually favours them as if they wanted to they could stream reserves, NRLW and NRL whilst they have their team at the stadium for very little extra cost. If anyone wants to watch reserve grade at 2pm on a Friday afternoon is another matter!

Playing three successive games on a pitch 12 times a year cannot be good for its upkeep. Stadia such as Lang Park, SFS, Parramatta Stadium, Stadium Australia will be doing it at for at least 20 weeks per year. On top of that there's union and soccer played on these fields. Stadium hire fees would increase to keep up with the extra maintenance costs of repairing a pitch that has been torn to shreds after three successive games of football. Soccer won't like it.

 

[Perth Red]

Playing three successive games on a pitch 12 times a year cannot be good for its upkeep. Stadia such as Lang Park, SFS, Parramatta Stadium, Stadium Australia will be doing it at for at least 20 weeks per year. On top of that there's union and soccer played on these fields. Stadium hire fees would increase to keep up with the extra maintenance costs of repairing a pitch that has been torn to shreds after three successive games of football. Soccer won't like it.

Im sure the suburban grounds can cope

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Pretty spot on analogy.

The tradition and history these clubs share is priceless. The NSWRL is willing to flush it away for no reason.

Many of the game's best players have come from the country areas of Queensland. If the Sydney clubs get their way we will never see another Shane Webke, Darren Lockyer, Matt Scott or Mathew Bowen.

 

[marshall stalin]

The tradition and history these clubs share is priceless. The NSWRL is willing to flush it away for no reason.

Many of the game's best players have come from the country areas of Queensland. If the Sydney clubs get their way we will never see another Shane Webke, Darren Lockyer, Matt Scott or Mathew Bowen.

Significantly more of the best players came from Greater Sydney and NSW.

 

[The Great Dane]

Australia just doesn't have the money or population for this kind of comp to work.

That's way too simplistic.

Assuming that it's got the right business partners and support from broadcasters and/or streaming services, I have no doubt that a national second division RL competition (or Aussie Rules for that matter) could be a more successful product than some other sports.

I'd back, e.g., North Sydney Bears vs Wynnum Manly to both out rate and out draw the Macarthur Bulls vs CC Mariners or Illawarra Hawks vs Brisbane Bullets for example, or any programs that broadcaster are putting on TV before the footy on a weekend, assuming that the competition they are playing in has a good structure and is promoted well.

But that's just the problem; even if you ignore the fact that the NRL is notoriously anti-entrepreneurial, and that such a competition would be expensive to set up and take time to bare fruit, I highly doubt that they have it in them to structure it properly or promote it well. They'd insist on the NRL clubs fielding teams in it for example, which would be instant death of the competition as a commercial product, because people would be primed to treat it as a poor man's NRL instead of it's own unique thing.

Also, despite ample evidence of well run lower tiers being highly successful in other nations (soccer pyramids for example), the media in this country seems to be convinced that there's no interest in anything other than the top tier when it comes to sport. So that'd be another hurdle.

 

[The Great Dane]

The tradition and history these clubs share is priceless. The NSWRL is willing to flush it away for no reason.

The NRL is happily killing the NSWRL as well.

So yeah, it's just wrong to blame them for this.

 

[Perth Red]

The tradition and history these clubs share is priceless. The NSWRL is willing to flush it away for no reason.

Many of the game's best players have come from the country areas of Queensland. If the Sydney clubs get their way we will never see another Shane Webke, Darren Lockyer, Matt Scott or Mathew Bowen.

Why? If you’re a gun 16 year old in Rockhampton you’ll be spotted and signed to an nrl club same as now. If you keep developing and shine at 22 in the new national comp you’ll get a reserve grade contract at an nrl club. Nothing changes as long as theres good scouting, connections still.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Significantly more of the best players came from Greater Sydney and NSW.

They didn't during the late 70s and 80s. Nor did they during the 2000s and 10s. NSW will never equal Queensland's 8-0 series.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Why? If you’re a gun 16 year old in Rockhampton you’ll be spotted and signed to an nrl club same as now. If you keep developing and shine at 22 in the new national comp you’ll get a reserve grade contract at an nrl club. Nothing changes as long as theres good scouting, connections still.

The current regime is pulling money from all levels beneath NRL and NRLW. It will make life difficult for many regional clubs. I suspect registration costs will rise and price a lot of kids out of the game.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

The NRL is happily killing the NSWRL as well.

So yeah, it's just wrong to blame them for this.

The NSWRL is definitely being thrown under the bus for the benefit of Sydney NRL clubs.

The NRL under the ARLC has been a continuation of the pre-1995 NSWRL era with its focus squarely on Sydney. All the talk about the Bears by V'landys and the ARLC's focus on keeping the GF in Sydney until the mid-40s -- in exchange for multiple stadia in that city while other regions in need of better facilities are ignored -- makes it hard see the game ever being a truly national sport.

Bringing back three grades at the expense of the state competitions will benefit the Sydney NRL clubs to the detriment of everyone else.