NSW Cup restructure

[alien]

It's on at 4pm as well. It's on Channel 9 live in Queensland, or streamed on the QRL website.

It's replayed on Fox Sports at 10:30pm on Wednesday night. Sucks that we can't see it down here in NSW on TV. Could've put it on GEM.

ah ok, i'll watch it on wed night then.

 

[alien]

oh they're showing the ron massey cup gf live on the nswrl website

http://www.nswrl.com.au/news/2015/09/25/rmc_grand_final_live.html

 

[siv]

well there would be more nrl squad players in the nsw cup than in the qld cup, and the non nrl players in the qld cup wouldn't be better than the non nrl players in the nsw cup, otherwise they would be in nrl squads

The other key difference is NSW Cup does not run a U20s comp. Its evolved into the National U20s

Just as NSWRL FG evolved into the NRL National FG

Even at U18 and U16 levels today NSWRL looks like the old 1984 NSWRL comp represented by original districts plus Newcastle and CC. CRL has not bought into allow other NSW country regions to play at this lower level either

Basically the issue in QLD terms is like asking 8 Brisbane clubs to pull out of the QLD Cup and FOGS Cup so that the Wests Panthers and Valleys and Brithers can participate, instead

 

[XXXX Cap]

no they usually have the under 20s before the first grade game. the nsw cup games are usually at other grounds and are often on different days too

Must have assumed that from the games we get on Fox.

Do they draw a crowd at other venues ?

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

i meant each nrl club having their own reserve grade team, instead of using other clubs as feeder clubs

Ok. That would destroy the parts of the QLD Cup that the NRL hasnt already.

The State Championship is a chance to bring in areas that would never get teams, i dont think its a good idea to exclude them from the competitions inception.

Even if most of the towns i referenced earlier arent viable prospects for 30 years, this restructurig of the State Championship needs to consider these longterm options.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

and that would be the nrl. don't try to tell me that the qld cup is elite and so much better than the nsw cup. the nrl should be focusing on making 2nd grade the strongest it can be, and closest to nrl first grade as possible, which will be better for the fringe first graders, which will then improve the quality of the first grade teams, instead of keeping qld cup 2nd tier, just so it can be glorified

Thats like saying we should end the NRL because Clubs are on a level below Rep sides, or that we should end Origin because it takes away from Internationals....

These concepts are worthy in their own right, as a State Championship would be!!

1998 saw the NRL officially become a fully professional League, and while that has brought many positives, the competition has lost some things as well.
-NRL games cant continued to be played in shitty suburban grounds on Sunday afternoons like the nostalgic days of old.
- Its hard to see players as passionate about their club when they seem happy to switch alligences for the right price.

This nostagia of 1970s RL can be largely recaptured in this semi-professional/amateur League.
- Young players, first made famous in their local club, looking to break into the top grade.
- Older players, without that hope of making the NRL, looking to carry their towns name onto the national stage on GF day.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

The Queensland Cup and NSW Cup probably don't vary too much in standard. The big difference is the identity of the clubs.

NSW Cup plays its games as curtain raisers to NRL and thus automatically labels them as being second tier standard.

Queensland Cup clubs stand in their own right - they are significant in their own communities and the players are proud to be playing in the top grade of these clubs.

Pride, Hunters, Mackay, Central, Ipswich, and Sunny Coast are the biggest sporting teams in their locations and get significant local following. Wynnum, Easts, Tweed, Burleigh, Norths, Souths Logan and Redcliffe have decades of tradition and history and are all proud clubs with passionate fans.

Watching on TV, there just doesn't seem a lot of passion from the few hundred scattered around big stadiums watching NSW Cup games. That can't help its profile as a significant competition.

This.

I just dont understand the appeal of a 16 club National Reserve Grade.
- It would be expensive.
- It would garner minimal interest (just the club diehards looking for a fix earlier in the day)
- it immediately excludes clubs from non-NRL areas.

Id rather see this used as a tool to rekindle the fanbase as much as develop players.

 

[siv]

This.

I just dont understand the appeal of a 16 club National Reserve Grade.
- It would be expensive.
- It would garner minimal interest (just the club diehards looking for a fix earlier in the day)
- it immediately excludes clubs from non-NRL areas.

Id rather see this used as a tool to rekindle the fanbase as much as develop players.

Lets discuss these points

Too expensive
- ARLC has record earnings so can easily afford this

Fan interest
- there is so much talk of improving the game day experiance. 3 grades without a 45 min break has worked for years and is still a important factor most clubs across the country

National RG Development
- like National U20s is where athletes have been for over 100 years developed. Now in the world of full time athletes its important that fringe FG players and the best juniors develop in strong professional environment

Part time player development is well served by NSW Cup and QLD Cup
- this allows players to work study and still play without the pressures of NRL full time demands including travel demands

By having Penrith Canterbury Manly Warriors Newcastle Wests-Tigers clubs move up to National RG - it opens the way for expansion at NSW Cup level

By adding teams like people want to at NSW Cup eg Windsor, St Marys, Western Division, Riverina, Fiji, North Coast still allows the fan base to grow

 

[RugbyLeagueStartedIn1988]

it immediately excludes clubs from non-NRL areas.

This is the point that stands out for me. As a Cairns local and Pride supporter, the Cowboys I feel don't really represent the Cairns and FNQ area in general and the Northern Pride fills that void. And a reserve grade Cowboy squad can't do that.

 

[RugbyLeagueStartedIn1988]

By having Penrith Canterbury Manly Warriors Newcastle Wests-Tigers clubs move up to National RG - it opens the way for expansion at NSW Cup level

By adding teams like people want to at NSW Cup eg Windsor, St Marys, Western Division, Riverina, Fiji, North Coast still allows the fan base to grow
Read more at http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=11157889#1gTLS4ACzWQiwcVo.99

Kinda skeptical but this sounds like a good selling point to me though. Bush footy in NSWs needs to be saved.

 

[Mandalorian]

Id prefer to go to a park footy game and see the reserve graders for $10 rather than having to pay $30-$40 with the game likely to be on a Fri-Sat night as opposed to a more family friendly Sat-Sun arvo

Id say there are quite a few QCup supporters that feel the same.

 

[siv]

Id prefer to go to a park footy game and see the reserve graders for $10 rather than having to pay $30-$40 with the game likely to be on a Fri-Sat night as opposed to a more family friendly Sat-Sun arvo

Id say there are quite a few QCup supporters that feel the same.

There is a market for both

Rather than one or the other we need both

 

[Mandalorian]

Dropping the skill level of QCup would do a tonne of damage. Forcing the Broncos, Titans ans Cowboys to field a RG side would rip the playing guts out of the teams and then you'll see crowds and corporate support diminish

I dont see the need for a RG tbh. It really doesnt add more than it absolutely would take away

 

[RugbyLeagueStartedIn1988]

Dropping the skill level of QCup would do a tonne of damage. Forcing the Broncos, Titans ans Cowboys to field a RG side would rip the playing guts out of the teams and then you'll see crowds and corporate support diminish

Thats the big what if for me. I would have to think of other sporting organisation that went through the same thing elsewhere in history and see how that panned out.

 

[Mandalorian]

Well the BRL went trough it back in 1988. How did that go?

 

[siv]

Dropping the skill level of QCup would do a tonne of damage. Forcing the Broncos, Titans ans Cowboys to field a RG side would rip the playing guts out of the teams and then you'll see crowds and corporate support diminish

I dont see the need for a RG tbh. It really doesnt add more than it absolutely would take away

Those teams today run U20s in the BRL and U20s in National U20s

Most of National U20s 21 year olds would graduate up into National RG plus rest of the Top 25 players

I say impact on the QLD Cup will be minimal

 

[Mandalorian]

What?

So youre suggesting the QCup become a place where RG rejects go and you think the effect on playing quality will be "Minimal"? Considering it is at RG level right now

Comon man

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Not one single bush club or region is going to spend $100k plus to play in some third string nswrl comp, even if they had the money, which they dont. Even the central coast clubs who played in the old Jim beam cup started pulling out within a year or two and they had an hour to travel at the most. Ffs Canberra can't even be f**ked playing in the NSW cup now and they have more cash than most.

 

[rightleftin]

Ok I now have the stats for the NSW Cup in 2015. 189 players with NRL experience played in the NSW Cup this year as follows:

Newcastle 16
Wyong 11
Mounties 18
Canterbury 14
NZ Warriors 9
Penrith 15
Manly 20
North Sydney 14
Newtown 16
Illawarra 19
wests Tigers 17
Wentworthville 20

The split would half and half between regulars and occasionals - the normal comings and goings between 1st grade and reserve grade.

 

[alien]

Must have assumed that from the games we get on Fox.

Do they draw a crowd at other venues ?

less than 1,000