NZ Expansion

[Perth Red]

There is no guarantee of anything other than if you do the same thing you'll get the same result lol.

The big difference in years to come is that the nrl will have enough money to be able to offset the risk in the same way afl has been able to do. RL has never been in that position before. Even in 1995 it expanded from a point of financial weakness which ultimately doomed some of it.

If the nrl want a second NZ team they can now comfortably afford one, if they consider it a strategic importance to invest in it only they know. The time seems right given the NZ playing strength, unions decline and the financial wealth of the nrl.

 

[Te Kaha]

If the nrl want a second NZ team they can now comfortably afford one, if they consider it a strategic importance to invest in it only they know. The time seems right given the NZ playing strength, unions decline and the financial wealth of the nrl.

Thanks for saying exactly what I just said... It would be a non financial reason for them to expand and they wouldn't do it for a purely financial one.

And despite rugby being on the decline in Aus it is still getting stronger here. so counting on a "rugby decline" here wont good planning.

 

[LeftRightOut]

Could Kiwis here see a city like Christchurch supporting an NRL team? I know League really is king in Auckland, but I'd love to see resources invested in developing the game in the South Island, because longer term that would then help build the case for a more tangible and tribal NZ Origin of North v South AND because it'd spread the game beyond its northern strong hold.

No, Christchurch is no chance of supporting an NRL team. Despite the belief that RL has a strong presence on the SI, RU will always be the most dominant code on the SI (and the NI of course), that will never change.
Wellington too is well-served for professional sport - the Hurricanes and Phoenix namely, and would struggle to attract consistent crowds once the novelty wore off.
As for an NZ Origin concept, I think that it too is a pointless idea as the supposed North vs South rivalry is overstated and has little relevance to those born post-1900.

FWIW, I don't believe NZ can support a second NRL team. While it would be nice to see, the population is just too small and the potential for corporate investment is minimal.
RL will never challenge RU in terms of market dominance in NZ, and it would be ridiculous to even make such an attempt. Nor will it challenge RU in terms of potential player salaries given the far greater global presence of RU and the opportunity to earn big $$ in Europe, the UK, and Japan (without also considering the lifestyle opportunities those places afford).
The challenge for RL in NZ is to consolidate the support it currently has, and carefully target a segmented market for playing numbers/financial growth.

Perth and Brisbane 2 for mine.

 

[LeftRightOut]

If the nrl want a second NZ team they can now comfortably afford one, if they consider it a strategic importance to invest in it only they know. The time seems right given the NZ playing strength, unions decline and the financial wealth of the nrl.

What on earth are you talking about? The introduction of NZ 2 would be of no relevance to the disaffected RU supporters in Australia, so that's a redundant proposition.

 

[Perth Red]

Nzru has been facing financial problems for 5 years now. The selling off of the sacred all-blacks hpjersey is a clear indication of how they are struggling at a number of levels to keep,up,with other parts of the world in Union. A strong growth plan for RL in NZ is needed to capitalise on this.

2010: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/rug...-union-unveils-record-loss-20100422-tedh.html

2011: http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/s...hurch-earthquake/story-e6frf4qu-1226053332850

2014: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/sevens/64117821/NZ-Rugby-bailout-Wellington-in-bid-to-save-sevens

My experience of kiwis in WA is they don't mind playing league or union, whichever is offering the better club experience and for the top players which is offering best career opportunities.

 

[Perth Red]

Which fringe international players are on a million a year?

The "other" things are more likely to make the difference. Professional sports people have a very short life span in sport. Just having a big bank balance will never be enough. And unless things change massively it will be "most" who still choose to play rugby over league.

.

Tedesco was offered $650k at 20 years of age, Milford $450k at 20. Dce $10mill at 26 and he isn't even starting 7 in rep teams. No shortage of money to be made in nrl these days. French Union salaries isnt sustainable and everyone seems to believe that bubble will eventually burst.

We don't need/want most, just the best lol.

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

I saw an article on the Dominion Post (Wellington newspaper) in regards to Super Rugby being on the decline. It had pictures of Lomu and Cullen on it. Im not saying Union is on the decline but its not the same as it was back in the days of the Super 12. I personally rather watch the Warriors, Roosters and the current Broncos rather than Super and it use to be the other way around.

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

Tedesco was offered $650k at 20 years of age, Milford $450k at 20. Dce $10mill at 26 and he isn't even starting 7 in rep teams. No shortage of money to be made in nrl these days. French Union salaries isnt sustainable and everyone seems to believe that bubble will eventually burst.

We don't need/want most, just the best lol.

Daley Cherry Evans lifetime deal with manly. He plays for 8 years and its estimated to be $10 million!!

 

[Te Kaha]

Nzru has been facing financial problems for 5 years now. The selling off of the sacred all-blacks hpjersey is a clear indication of how they are struggling at a number of levels to keep,up,with other parts of the world in Union. A strong growth plan for RL in NZ is needed to capitalise on this.
2010: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/new-zealand-rugby-union-unveils-record-loss-20100422-tedh.html

2011: http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/super-rugby/new-zealand-rugby-union-set-to-bail-crusaders-out-of-financial-trouble-caused-by-christchurch-earthquake/story-e6frf4qu-1226053332850

2014: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/sevens/64117821/NZ-Rugby-bailout-Wellington-in-bid-to-save-sevens

You really don't have a clue do you? The crusaders needed bailing out after the earthquake??? well duh!! You quote an Article from five years ago about at 15 mil loss when they were about to pay 80Mil to the IRB for the World cup?? This year they announced over 63mill IN RESERVES!! they are far from struggling. For an organisation that only has to pay for six teams they receive over 117Million a year in revenue.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/news/9864992/Steve-Tew-very-pleased-with-NZRUs-profits

to put it in to perspective the NZRL survives on 100th of that.

My experience of kiwis in WA is they don't mind playing league or union, whichever is offering the better club experience and for the top players which is offering best career opportunities.

If they live in WA they have already given up on the dream to play for the All Blacks. The young players in NZ haven't.

Tedesco was offered $650k at 20 years of age, Milford $450k at 20. Dce $10mill at 26 and he isn't even starting 7 in rep teams. No shortage of money to be made in nrl these days. French Union salaries isnt sustainable and everyone seems to believe that bubble will eventually burst.

We don't need/want most, just the best lol.

Still waiting on the Million plus a year for any fringe international players. France, England and Japan are still paying far more than ANY NRL team can.

As I have said. NZ2 may do well in NZ, but the NRL will have to go in knowing it wont make them the money invested. It would have to be for the sake of the game over revenue. That would be a first in recent times.

 

[Perth Red]

Which England team is paying more than an nrl team? Burgess is Allegedly the highest paid English Union player according to this list and he is on less than most of the top nrl players. Everyone else is in the French comp" which as you say excludes them from playing for all blacks anyway. The fact. French club is going to pay a million pound fora 33 year old shows how silly their salary structure is T the moment, their TV deal is less than nrl and crowds on par, it's a House of cards built on some rich men's follies.

http://intheloose.com/2015/01/08/rugbys-top-10-best-paid-players-2015/

If as an 18 year old you have the option of joining southern orcas NYC team on a decent contract or hold out playing some provisional Union club on a pittance Hoping one day you may be an all-black I reckon plenty would choose nrl. As shown by $BW playing nrl can improve your chances as everyone knows NRL produces the best "rugby" players in the world.

Ps who are these fringe international Union players earning a million $'s? Dce is one I have given you from the nrl, on a lot more lucrative contract than a million $.

 

[Te Kaha]

Which England team is paying more than an nrl team? Burgess is Allegedly the highest paid English Union player according to this list and he is on less than most of the top nrl players. Everyone else is in the French comp" which as you say excludes them from playing for all blacks anyway. The fact. French club is going to pay a million pound fora 33 year old shows how silly their salary structure is T the moment, their TV deal is less than nrl and crowds on par, it's a House of cards built on some rich men's follies.

http://intheloose.com/2015/01/08/rugbys-top-10-best-paid-players-2015/

That list is so wrong its laughable. The Falcons paid 1mil for Haymen. Gloucester paid a mil for Afoa. there is plenty of money over there.

If as an 18 year old you have the option of joining southern orcas NYC team on a decent contract or hold out playing some provisional Union club on a pittance Hoping one day you may be an all-black I reckon plenty would choose nrl. As shown by $BW playing nrl can improve your chances as everyone knows NRL produces the best "rugby" players in the world.

Just because you don't understand what playing for the All Blacks means doesn't mean a huge percentage of young players don't. And yes the NRL produces the best League players in the world.

Ps who are these fringe international Union players earning a million $'s? Dce is one I have given you from the nrl, on a lot more lucrative contract than a million $.

Francis Saili signed for Munster. Any of a dozen who have signed for next year. You are wrong, accept it and move on.

 

[The Great Dane]

Te Kaha, all you're arguments are either grasping at straws, contradictory of each other or rely on quantifying unquantifiable things like peoples emotions and feelings to work.

You seem like a well spoken bloke and able to understand the arguments that are being presented to you, so I'll put this to you, what are the real reasons why you don't like the idea of a second NZ NRL team?

Because you're true thoughts on the matter are much more interesting to me then these '14 - 16 year old kids wont take lucrative contracts with the NRL because they want to become All Blacks, so they'll skip on the paycheck, the free education, etc, and play local RU for next to nothing in the hopes that they get offered a giant contract to play RU in France/Japan at which point they will no longer be eligible to play for the All Black' style reasoning.

So if you're of the mind to share, please tell us what you really think.

 

[Perth Red]

the 24 year old all black? Link to where he is being paid a million $ a year? Not to mention all you are proving is that playing for the all blacks is far less important than making as much money as possible for some, which brings us back to the NRL paying more than NZRU can, especially when jnrs are at that age 17-20 when they are deciding if League or Union is the better option. Sure some will take the money avail in Eurpe union but if you can earn a million in your home country playing for Southern orcas or a minlion playing in some Irish province plenty will take the former. I am in no ways usggesting NZL through a second team is suddenly going to overtake union in popualirty or playing strength but youd have to be pretty naieve to think having a second NRL club in Southern NZ isnt going to entice plenty of jnr talent to switch from Union or stay with league.

give me some links to these NZ players million $ plus contract signings if the only evidence of union salaries I have been able to find you claim to be untrue.

 

[Te Kaha]

Besides as I said before with the club would come a large influx of cash for players coming from the NRL that local RU will not be able to match, so many players that historically would have chosen to play RU will choose to play RL for the cash.
In other words the NZRU will face the same problem that the ARU has faced in the last 20 years since they went professional and got rid of the shamateurism (though admittedly still on a much smaller scale), they wont be able meet the NRL's average pay rate for players.

Te Kaha, all you're arguments are either grasping at straws, contradictory of each other or rely on quantifying unquantifiable things like peoples emotions and feelings to work.

Because they aren't quantifiable, that's the point. Your entire argument (as above) is that lots of money will mean these young guys will sign on with an NRL team. That's just bullshit. There are plenty of intangibles that will decide that.

You seem like a well spoken bloke and able to understand the arguments that are being presented to you, so I'll put this to you, what are the real reasons why you don't like the idea of a second NZ NRL team?

I never said I didn't want one.

Because you're true thoughts on the matter are much more interesting to me then these '14 - 16 year old kids wont take lucrative contracts with the NRL because they want to become All Blacks, so they'll skip on the paycheck, the free education, etc, and play local RU for next to nothing in the hopes that they get offered a giant contract to play RU in France/Japan at which point they will no longer be eligible to play for the All Black' style reasoning.

So if you're of the mind to share, please tell us what you really think.

No you misread. I said there arte more reasons then money for them to stay in Rugby, and that there is just as much, if not more money in staying in rugby. Any new NRL team will have to offer more than just money.

the 24 year old all black? Link to where he is being paid a million $ a year?

All already told you his name. go look for it.

Not to mention all you are proving is that playing for the all blacks is far less important than making as much money as possible for some, which brings us back to the NRL paying more than NZRU can, especially when jnrs are at that age 17-20 when they are deciding if League or Union is the better option.

as usual you miss the point. Those who want to stay for less money do, those who just want the money get plenty offshore... there is already both choices here. a new NRL club wont make much difference to that.

Sure some will take the money avail in Eurpe union but if you can earn a million in your home country playing for Southern orcas or a minlion playing in some Irish province plenty will take the former. I am in no ways usggesting NZL through a second team is suddenly going to overtake union in popualirty or playing strength but youd have to be pretty naieve to think having a second NRL club in Southern NZ isnt going to entice plenty of jnr talent to switch from Union or stay with league.

There is no way any NRL team will pay a million for an unproven young player.
I have already said there is plenty of talent already available. and yes a second team will no doubt help that
But assuming that any rugby talent will switch for monies sake alone is just plain dumb.

give me some links to these NZ players million $ plus contract signings if the only evidence of union salaries I have been able to find you claim to be untrue.

I've given you the names, look them up for yourself.

 

[Lockyer4President!]

lol Te Kaha, could you act any more petulant?

If you make a claim, back it up.

 

[Perth Red]

he canyt, I've looked and there is no mention of what they have signed for, the only list I could find of top paid union players I have posted and he claims os false, but cant provide any evidence to the contrary.

Here's another one, all in the French league all on less than the very top NRL players

http://www.therichest.com/sports/other-sports/top-10-highest-paid-rugby-players-in-the-world/10/

 

[Te Kaha]

he canyt, I've looked and there is no mention of what they have signed for, the only list I could find of top paid union players I have posted and he claims os false, but cant provide any evidence to the contrary.

Here's another one, all in the French league all on less than the very top NRL players

http://www.therichest.com/sports/other-sports/top-10-highest-paid-rugby-players-in-the-world/10/

Are you that stupid? one minute using the names I posted and
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11366458
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...ing-shock-decision-to-leave-new-zealand-rugby

 

[Perth Red]

Are you that stupid? one minute using the names I posted and
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11366458
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...ing-shock-decision-to-leave-new-zealand-rugby

Thanks. Now find me someone who has signed for more the DCe is going to be on and I'll concede Union in Europe is more lucrative option for a NZ kid than nrl. Though I can see that some of these players you have thrown up are 30 plus so to earn that much when your that old is pretty good going.

 

[Te Kaha]

Thanks. Now find me someone who has signed for more the DCe is going to be on and I'll concede Union in Europe is more lucrative option for a NZ kid than nrl. Though I can see that some of these players you have thrown up are 30 plus so to earn that much when your that old is pretty good going.

There wont be, anywhere in the world where a player is signed for 8 years in a contact sport... that is true desperation right there. And there is no guarantee that DCE will even get his reputed 10Mil anyway.
Besides DCE is one player, in a desperate club while Rugby is offering Million dollar a year contracts to different players each year.
As I have said time and time again. It wont be the money that decides who plays which code.

 

[Perth Red]

You think DCE is the only player earning $million in NRL?

What you seem to be saying the choice is:
if you're a top player, want to represent your country and earn a $million, play NRL

if youre old or middling player, forgo the chance to play for your country, move overseas and earn a $million play Union

Seems a reasonably attractive choice to play RL imo. Probably why so many Kiwis choose to. Having a second NZ team will only increase that attraction for top jnrs.