NZ Maori 2008 World Cup

[sunny]

That's the problem, people seem to want to have a world cup, no matter how bad it is. Eventually there comes a point when it's just not worth bothering.

 

[Copa]

Go the Maori!



Guess that rules out England, Scotland, Wales, the island of Ireland, and Great Britain and Ireland then! Unless, of course, you're suggesting that NSW and QLD take part?

Let's see the double standards roll out - again. You can set your watch by it.

Show me the borders for this fictional maoriland? Do they have their own currency for maoris like that printed by the bank of scotland that is used in Scotland?? Where is maorilands parliament??

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

There will be no credibility in the WC is the Maoris are in. In 2000, Luke Goodwin played NZ and was born and bred in Australia, but Lord Ted was half Maori.

The WC is for countries, would the football WC ever include a USA team of African Americans? If the Maoris were in it would be another way for negative media attention for the whole tournament.

Also comparing the Maoris to the four nations is a huge stretch. Eng, Scot, Wales and Ire have competed separetly in different sports for years.

 

[Polynesian Warrior]

Easy there Copa ! I agree they shouldn't be in the world cup, but that doesn't give you the right bagged them and asked questions like that .

They are the Tangatawhenua or the People of The Land .

 

[Evil Homer]

England,Scotland,Ireland and Wales are countries in their own right.They have flags,capital cities,governments etc.Like Copa says,what is the capital of Maoriland?

I'm fine with the Maoris playing friendlies,Pacific tournaments etc but no way in the world should they be near the world cup.The way it's going it's looking like the administrators have not learned from their previous mistakes.

I also think the world cup should have a minimum of 12 teams.10 would fit in a combined Tri-Nations and Euro Nations cup,something we have every year,and one other team,which would be a complete waste of time IMO.

 

[Matterhorn]

While we are at it why don't we have the American Indians or the Finnish Laplanders.

Lets just base the world cup on countries not on indigenous minorities.

 

[SalfordRedsWA]

2 NZ sides in the WC is pathetic I tell yer!

 

[SalfordRedsWA]

England,Scotland,Ireland and Wales are countries in their own right.They have flags,capital cities,governments etc.Like Copa says,what is the capital of Maoriland?

I'm fine with the Maoris playing friendlies,Pacific tournaments etc but no way in the world should they be near the world cup.The way it's going it's looking like the administrators have not learned from their previous mistakes.

I also think the world cup should have a minimum of 12 teams.10 would fit in a combined Tri-Nations and Euro Nations cup,something we have every year,and one other team,which would be a complete waste of time IMO.

What ignorant rubbish!

These are former countries that are a part of the United Kingdom! The UK is a sovereign nation-state! Do some homework.

 

[Polynesian Warrior]

Thats it ! Im going to fly to Fiji and asked the Indian Fijian population if they want to put a team in the RLWC .

Tarewa Nikau still hasn't learn his lesson . He is still angry at the NZRL for playing Blackmore in the test team .
And add missing out on the Kiwi's coaching role I think he now thinks he can walk straight into the RLWC .

I think he needs to grow up and I hope the Maori league board has paid all that money that went missing from their fund .

 

[roopy]

As I see it we can accept that we will only have 3 teams capable of winning the thing, and just have the others to make up the numbers - or we can decide to use any means necessary to put on a tournament with 10 strong sides, right down to having the "Rupert Murdoch invitational side" led by John Hopate and featuring Jonah Lomu, Michael Jordan and the fat kid from "Hey Dad" if that is what it takes.

It can be a joke because it is just a jumped up tri-nations with not a game worth watching till the final four - or it can be a joke because it doesn't 'mirror' the Union WC and include teams like Georgia and Japan with claims that they are great powers in our game.

I think I have made my point, even though it is obvious few (if any) agree with me.
IMO we need 10 strong sides, and we need to do whatever it takes to produce those sides, including using the 'grandparent rule' - letting players represent as many sides as they like, calling guys born in WA yanks (Matt Petersen), or dipping Andrew Johns in black paint and calling him a West Indian if we could get away with it.

 

[PARRA_FAN]

2 NZ sides in the WC is pathetic I tell yer!

Especially when you consider whoever misses out on the New Zealand team, is still a chance to play in the Maori side (thats if of course theyre maori).

 

[Big Bunny]

Show me the borders for this fictional maoriland? Do they have their own currency for maoris like that printed by the bank of scotland that is used in Scotland?? Where is maorilands parliament??

I don't agree with NZ or an Aboriginal team taking part in the world cup, but that only comes down to a commercial decision. Nobody makes a fuss about the Iriquois playing in the Lacrosse WC, it's only in rugby league that such problems arise due to insecurity over our sports future and how some might perceive that the game will look to others.

However in relation to your question, in 1835 the Maori formally declared their sovereignty as a nation and 5 years later that nation still existed within the bounds of the treaty of Waitangi. The words “Tino Rangatiratanga” are included in both documents to indicate that absolute sovereignty remains.

I have heard of Maori passports being issued and the same goes for Aboriginal passports. Whilst there is no Maori or Aboriginal parliament, there wasn't one for Scotland at the time of the last world cup and I don't know if there is one in Wales yet (it was still being discussed as a possibility in 2003).

An Aboriginal team at the world cup is a different situation to the Maori. It would represent a union of hundreds of indigenous nations, of 2 races and 3 very specific cultures. Personally I'm not in favour of it, but I can understand how many people see it differently. Aboriginal nations were never extinguished, no treaty was ever signed to incorporate them into or alongside the colonies and later Australia. Their traditional boundaries still are respected between each nation and hold significance to each group.

Personally I'd enjoy seeing individual Aboriginal nations playing rep football, but I don't really feel that a World Cup is a necessary stage for that.

 

[elBandido]

Oh **** here we go again another farce that turns the greatest game in the world in to a laughing stock.

 

[Evil Homer]

What ignorant rubbish!

These are former countries that are a part of the United Kingdom! The UK is a sovereign nation-state! Do some homework.

This may be the case,but each country has it's own parliament,sports leagues,capital city,land regions etc.The UK is a collection of those countries and is ruled by the Queen.I consider myself to be English,not UK-ish,just as I'm sure Welsh people consider themselves to be Welsh etc.

 

[Copa]

I don't agree with NZ or an Aboriginal team taking part in the world cup, but that only comes down to a commercial decision. Nobody makes a fuss about the Iriquois playing in the Lacrosse WC, it's only in rugby league that such problems arise due to insecurity over our sports future and how some might perceive that the game will look to others.

However in relation to your question, in 1835 the Maori formally declared their sovereignty as a nation and 5 years later that nation still existed within the bounds of the treaty of Waitangi. The words “Tino Rangatiratanga” are included in both documents to indicate that absolute sovereignty remains.

I have heard of Maori passports being issued and the same goes for Aboriginal passports. Whilst there is no Maori or Aboriginal parliament, there wasn't one for Scotland at the time of the last world cup and I don't know if there is one in Wales yet (it was still being discussed as a possibility in 2003).

An Aboriginal team at the world cup is a different situation to the Maori. It would represent a union of hundreds of indigenous nations, of 2 races and 3 very specific cultures. Personally I'm not in favour of it, but I can understand how many people see it differently. Aboriginal nations were never extinguished, no treaty was ever signed to incorporate them into or alongside the colonies and later Australia. Their traditional boundaries still are respected between each nation and hold significance to each group.

Personally I'd enjoy seeing individual Aboriginal nations playing rep football, but I don't really feel that a World Cup is a necessary stage for that.

Iriquois play in the Lacrosse WC because lacross, IIRC, is a sport they invented.

IIRC is is partly for similar reasons that England is allowed to play in the soccer world cup as their own team (I won't go into all th arguments put forth about all the countries with round ball games trying to claim the title of soccers' inventor) ... a privelege they aren't given for the olympics (although I think an exception will be made for the london games).. now given RL wasn't invented by the Maori RL guys, the iriquois precendent can't be used by them..

rep teams are fine.... but in a WC that wants to be taken seriously by sponsors and the sporting world at large... it would take a LOT of groundwork for them to accept a Maori team as totally normal in the WC and an equal to NZ and Oz.

 

[Copa]

Easy there Copa ! I agree they shouldn't be in the world cup, but that doesn't give you the right bagged them and asked questions like that .

They are the Tangatawhenua or the People of The Land .

I didn't mean to insult anyone.... but in promoting the game a lot of groundwork would be required to prepare a sponosr and the the general sporting world to accept a Maori team is on equal footing to a NZ team...

other groups may also want in eventually... perhaps we could also have religious affiliations.. the brotherhood of Islam perhaps.. mahayana Vs theravada would be a good match up also ..

 

[Humphrey]

This is an absolute joke.

Have you got the soucre/article still?

Yeah I reckon always ask carlnz for the source mate. Think sometimes she overhears stuff and reports as fact cause not always accurate. Havent heard it myself on the telly here as carlnz reports but doesnt mean it wasnt. Would be a farce and wont fly as an idea either

 

[Polynesian Warrior]

As I see it we can accept that we will only have 3 teams capable of winning the thing, and just have the others to make up the numbers - or we can decide to use any means necessary to put on a tournament with 10 strong sides, right down to having the "Rupert Murdoch invitational side" led by John Hopate and featuring Jonah Lomu, Michael Jordan and the fat kid from "Hey Dad" if that is what it takes.

It can be a joke because it is just a jumped up tri-nations with not a game worth watching till the final four - or it can be a joke because it doesn't 'mirror' the Union WC and include teams like Georgia and Japan with claims that they are great powers in our game.

I think I have made my point, even though it is obvious few (if any) agree with me.
IMO we need 10 strong sides, and we need to do whatever it takes to produce those sides, including using the 'grandparent rule' - letting players represent as many sides as they like, calling guys born in WA yanks (Matt Petersen), or dipping Andrew Johns in black paint and calling him a West Indian if we could get away with it.

Point taken roopy ! I think most of us are only worry that a very strong Maori side can beat the Kiwi's in a semifinal and end up playing the Kangaroo's or Lions in the final .

Then thats when it becomes a farse .

 

[Big Bunny]

Iriquois play in the Lacrosse WC because lacross, IIRC, is a sport they invented.

So basically what you're saying is you're ok with any group playing in a WC, provided they have invented the sport, regardless of if they actually meet your own concept of what constitutes a nation?

 

[Copa]

So basically what you're saying is you're ok with any group playing in a WC, provided they have invented the sport, regardless of if they actually meet your own concept of what constitutes a nation?

No. I'm just saying I don't think the Lacrosse example is relevant to the Maori RL situation.

Each WC needs to set their own requirements and to have the maori RL in the WC would require a lot of groundwork to have them accepted as equals to Oz and NZ in the eyes of fans, journos and sponsors..