OFFICIAL New South Wales team, Game 2

[Tiger Hawk]

People whinging about halves and centres (or backs in general):

Josh Perry: 38 metres off 7 runs (4 hit-ups), 0 tackle-breaks, 0 off-loads, 18 tackles, 2 missed tackles in 31 minutes

Michael Weyman: 94 metres off 12 runs (6 hit-ups), 1 tackle-break, 1 off-load, 26 tackles, 0 missed tackles in 50 minutes

Ben Creagh: 76 metres off 9 runs (8 hit-ups), 1 tackle-break, 1 off-load, 39 tackles, 1 missed tackle, 1 error in 65 minutes

Trent Waterhouse: 57 metres off 10 runs (6 hit-ups), 4 tackle-breaks, 0 off-loads, 20 tackles, 1 missed tackle in 53 minutes

Anthony Watmough: 161 metres off 22 runs (18 hit-ups), 5 tackle-breaks, 2 off-loads, 40 tackles, 4 missed tackles, 2 errors in 80 minutes

Tom Learoyd-Lahrs: 106 metres off 12 runs (9 hit-ups), 2 tackle-breaks, 2 off-loads, 15 tackles, 2 missed tackles in 38 minutes

Brett White: 70 metres off 13 runs (10 hit-ups), 1 tackle-break, 0 off-loads, 20 tackles, 3 missed tackle in 41 minutes

Luke Lewis: 63 metres off 9 runs (3 hit-ups), 4 tackle-breaks, 2 off-loads, 21 tackles, 2 missed tackle in 42 minutes

Are there more creative players than Scott, Kidley, Tahu, Barrett etc. Yes. Would it make a difference if the forwards perform in game 2 like they did in game 1? No.

So what have the selectors done? Dropped Perry (deservedly so) for King (eh?), brought in Gallen (good), Hindmarsh (not what is needed) & O'Donnell (good). But who will end up missing out? And what happens if Weyman - the only legit prop that played well in game 1 - is ruled out?

That's why I don't see us winning game 2, and it's the reason we lost game 1.

And 21 players - what a joke.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

I really find it truly frightening how much hybrid and I have disagreed in the soccer forum over the years but how f**king similar our opinions are in RL.

England and Celtic are still sh*t. ;-):lol:

 

[watatank]

People whinging about halves and centres (or backs in general):

Josh Perry: 38 metres off 7 runs (4 hit-ups), 0 tackle-breaks, 0 off-loads, 18 tackles, 2 missed tackles in 31 minutes

Michael Weyman: 94 metres off 12 runs (6 hit-ups), 1 tackle-break, 1 off-load, 26 tackles, 0 missed tackles in 50 minutes

Ben Creagh: 76 metres off 9 runs (8 hit-ups), 1 tackle-break, 1 off-load, 39 tackles, 1 missed tackle, 1 error in 65 minutes

Trent Waterhouse: 57 metres off 10 runs (6 hit-ups), 4 tackle-breaks, 0 off-loads, 20 tackles, 1 missed tackle in 53 minutes

Anthony Watmough: 161 metres off 22 runs (18 hit-ups), 5 tackle-breaks, 2 off-loads, 40 tackles, 4 missed tackles, 2 errors in 80 minutes

Tom Learoyd-Lahrs: 106 metres off 12 runs (9 hit-ups), 2 tackle-breaks, 2 off-loads, 15 tackles, 2 missed tackles in 38 minutes

Brett White: 70 metres off 13 runs (10 hit-ups), 1 tackle-break, 0 off-loads, 20 tackles, 3 missed tackle in 41 minutes

Luke Lewis: 63 metres off 9 runs (3 hit-ups), 4 tackle-breaks, 2 off-loads, 21 tackles, 2 missed tackle in 42 minutes

Are there more creative players than Scott, Kidley, Tahu, Barrett etc. Yes. Would it make a difference if the forwards perform in game 2 like they did in game 1? No.

So what have the selectors done? Dropped Perry (deservedly so) for King (eh?), brought in Gallen (good), Hindmarsh (not what is needed) & O'Donnell (good). But who will end up missing out? And what happens if Weyman - the only legit prop that played well in game 1 - is ruled out?

That's why I don't see us winning game 2, and it's the reason we lost game 1.

And 21 players - what a joke.

Nice!

 

[dimitri]

they won't name a captain on the bench imo... that would be the most geniused selection i've ever seen.

has that even happened at club level before... let alone SoO? i suppose it has in 100+ years of history... but it would have to be rare.

Im pretty sure Allan Langer captained from the bench in a game, when coming back from either injury/origin duty - cant remember.

Pretty sure halfback would have been John Plath.

 

[Apey]

So what does Scott offer exactly?

Is he another 'defensive specialist' like Cooper who played so brilliantly (before his injury) in Origin I? He added practically nothing to our attack and was poor in defence.

These defensive specialists seem to achieve very little in Origin. They may be awesome at club level defensively but in Origin they are just going to become Inglis or somebody else's rag-doll.

Trying to come up with these players to defend against Inglis is geniused. Jennings will do as good as job as any other defensive specialist centre you will pick to try and control Inglis. No matter who you pick, if he is on his game, he will get past them.

I just don't get picking 'defensive specialist' centres. Inglis is hardly a defensive specialist... in fact, at times, he is rather poor in defence. Do you think he would ever get overlooked because of that?? I'm not trying to compare Inglis and Jennings on ability but rather their job in the team.

The funny thing for QLD is picking a defensive specialist will never be an issue for them because NSW selectors are trying to pick centres to defend against their centres rather than attack them. It's mental.

Most people would agree Idris' selection is probably one of the worst... but at least it's heading in the right direction. It's obvious he wasn't picked for his defensive capabilities, lol. Now if only they could keep heading that in direction by picking attacking centres... but actually pick people on attacking prowess rather than their stupid f**king appearance.

In defence AND attack, Jennings > Idris.

NSW's attack is the problem - I read somewhere our average points per game lately is something like 15?? How is that acceptable?? QLD has an amazing backline and they will always score a healthy amount of points. We need players who can rival that.

 

[Raider_69]

Beau Scott has made the most tackles of any centre in the NRL. Guess who is number 2, Chris Lawrence.

Beau Scott - 205 tackles, 19 missed, 25 ineffective, 20.5 tackles/game
Chris Lawrence - 196 tackles, 22 missed, 13 ineffective, 16.3 tackles/game

There is a fair bit between Chris and the next guy. So Beau seems to be a more consistent tackler, but you can hardly suggest that Chris is poor, in fact, stats call him one of the best defensive centres in the NRL this year. So let's compare their attack.

Beau Scott:
10 games, 1 try, 1 linebreak, 23 offloads, 23 tackle breaks, 9.8 runs/game, 79.1 metres/game.

Chris Lawrence:
12 games, 8 tries, 7 linebreaks, 5 offloads, 28 tackle breaks, 9.9 runs/game, 86.6 metres/game.

Beau has the most offloads of any centre in the league, his stats read like a backrowers. They really pale in comparison to the attacking stats (offloads aside) of Lawrence.

So basically, Scott is a slightly better defender, but a non existent attacking option. Wouldn't you rather the player with both attacking and defensive strengths?

Just for a variable. The other big name NSW centres are as follows.

Matt Cooper:
9 games, 9 tries, 7 linebreaks, 31 tackle breaks, 10.9 runs/game, 95.1 metres/game, 18.9 tackles/game (deserves his spot)

Timana Tahu:
11 games, 4 tries, 4 linebreaks, 22 tackle breaks, 9.5 runs/game, 71.7 metres/game, 15.2 tackles/game (doesn't seem to have the impact of the other nominees, in either defense OR attack)

Josh Morris:
11 games, 8 tries, 10 linebreaks, 35 tackle breaks, 9.6 runs/game, 88.5 metres/game, 14.5 tackles/game (better than Tahu, equal to the other options in attack, not in defense)

Michael Jennings:
12 games, 7 tries, 5 linebreaks, 56 tackle breaks, 11.2 runs/game, 103.2 metres/game, 13.3 tackles/game (the best attacking centre in NSW, not a noted tackler, but not poor either)

Beau Champion: (before tonights game)
11 games, 12 tries, 9 linebreaks, 22 tackle breaks, 8.3 runs/game, 81.5 metres/game, 12.8 tackles/game (getting to the tryline frequently makes him seem a bit better than he is, still not the worst option of our top line centres)

Jamie Lyon:
10 games, 5 tries, 7 linebreaks, 31 tackle breaks, 7.6 runs/game, 65.5 metres/game, 13 tackles/game (the few big plays he makes give him the illusion of superstardom, the truth is he IS a superstar and the low stats are as a result of him being given the opportunity to inject himself at opportune moments, has the most try assists of any centre in the league, his reputation as a defensive centre are unwarranted however)

Jamal Idris:
11 games, 5 tries, 6 linebreaks, 68 tackle breaks, 12.2 runs, 108.2 metres/game, 11.1 tackles/game (his critics are really for the most part unwarranted, his main issue is his ineffective tackles, he has more ineffective tackles than any centre in the league and ranks highly in missed tackles, his tackle breaking and metre eating is second to none though)

Just for posterity really. Reading these stats has changed my tune quite a bit regarding Jamal Idris, maybe having him come off the bench isn't the worst idea, especially if their plan comes good. Cooper certainly deserves his spot but Tahu does not. Lyon shouldn't really be a given either. In my opinion the top three centres NSW have (and I'm surprised these stats have given me this indication) are Cooper, Lawrence and Idris.

interesting post
out of curiosity, can you give us a run down on Joel Thompson's stats?
Im just guessing here but i think they are going to be on par if not top in all areas.

 

[gronkathon]

Well he certainly runs harder, faster & better lines than Beau f**king Scott thats for sure.

 

[Deleted member 10972]

The job of the centre is to score tries and set up his outside man. I like Beau Scott as a player, and I wouldn't mind him as an impact man off the bench, but I don't think he is an Origin centre by any means. These are the best performing centres over the past two seasons that are eligible for NSW selection:

Beau Champion

2009 - 16 games, 11 tries, 13 linebreaks, 4 LB assists, 2 try assists, 40 tackle breaks
2010 - 12 games, 14 tries, 10 linebreaks, 6 LB assists, 3 try assists, 25 tackle breaks

Josh Morris

2009 - 21 games, 22 tries, 19 linebreaks, 5 LB assists, 6 try assists, 58 tackle breaks
2010 - 11 games, 8 tries, 10 linebreaks, 1 LB assists, 1 try assists, 35 tackle breaks

Chris Lawrence

2009 - 18 games, 7 tries, 12 linebreaks, 9 LB assists, 7 try assists, 33 tackle breaks
2010 - 12 games, 8 tries, 7 linebreaks, 3 LB assists, 1 try assists, 28 tackle breaks

Michael Jennings

2009 - 19 games, 17 tries, 22 linebreaks, 4 LB assists, 6 try assists, 89 tackle breaks
2010 - 12 games, 7 tries, 5 linebreaks, 3 LB assists, 3 try assists, 56 tackle breaks

Jamie Lyon

2009 - 17 games, 9 tries, 6 linebreaks, 6 LB assists, 7 try assists, 48 tackle breaks
2010 - 11 games, 5 tries, 7 linebreaks, 5 LB assists, 7 try assists, 31 tackle breaks

Jamal Idris

2009 - 20 games, 7 tries, 12 linebreaks, 1 LB assists, 2 try assists, 98 tackle breaks
2010 - 11 games, 5 tries, 6 linebreaks, 3 LB assists, 1 try assists, 68 tackle breaks

Those are the only realistic options at centre for NSW. I would steer clear of Idris though, simply because of his all-or-nothing defensive technique that made Matt Cooper look like Steve Renouf a few weeks ago. I wouldn't pick Cooper - yes he is in decent form at the moment, but he has never aimed up at Origin, and doesn't have any particular outstanding feature that puts him ahead of the pack. Not to mention, he is injury prone and his last season was terribly poor.

Two of last seasons better centres from last year were:

Joel Monaghan (2009) - 22 games, 10 tries, 11 linebreaks, 2 LB assists, 2 try assists, 64 tackle breaks

Jarod Croker (2009) - 21 games, 12 tries, 12 linebreaks, 7 LB assists, 2 try assists, 88 tackle breaks

...but so far this season, Croker is yet to find the same stunning talent he showed last year, while Monaghan has had an injury plagued start to the season. I would definitely look at Croker's current centre partner however, either as a starting centre or as a high impact bench option.

Joel Thompson - 11 games, 8 tries, 12 linebreaks, 1 LB assists, 1 try assists, 49 tackle breaks

Imagine a genuine linebreaker like him coming off the bench in a critical moment, he could very well split the game wide open.

 

[Deleted member 10972]

Ahh didn't see that post MacDougall, my bad.

Either way, at least I contributed something new with the 2009 stats.

Scott was picked only for his defense, and nothing else. Surely if they wanted a centre/backrow style strike weapn, both Joel Thompson and Mitchell Aubusson are ripping it up at the moment.

Tahu doesn't get a tick in any boxes. Other than the odd big hit or big run, what does he offer? Not a real speedster anymore, doesn't bust tackles, isn't particularly evasive...maybe he has a bit of size and is a slightly more balanced allround player than Idris, but there have to be better options, seriously.

 

[Raider_69]

the only issue with JT is the guy is supremely confident, he backs himself 9 times out of 10, which often means his winger never sees footy, but when he's playing as well as he is, you cant blame him

his other issue is in defense, he is prone to do the occasional Idris, and rush out of the line stupidly, he's getting better at knowing when its on and when its not but he can be baited into bad defensive plays. However unlike Idris, when he holds his line, the guy is rock solid

 

[gronkathon]

Tim Tam must suck Daley & Bellamys c**ks. He has been soundley beaten by almost every opposing centre in the comp this year. "But but but he is a supreme athelete, he can slam dunk over the uprights. blah blah blah" Shut the f**k up Daley you dithering twat

 

[Raider_69]

I hate the way RL is starting to covet the "athlete" and not the footballer
A superstar footballer will always be better than a superstar athlete. EG: Dugan the footballer. Idris the athlete

I know there are freaks like Greg Inglis who are both

 

[hybrid_tiger]

so what does scott offer exactly?

Is he another 'defensive specialist' like cooper who played so brilliantly (before his injury) in origin i? He added practically nothing to our attack and was poor in defence.

These defensive specialists seem to achieve very little in origin. They may be awesome at club level defensively but in origin they are just going to become inglis or somebody else's rag-doll.

Trying to come up with these players to defend against inglis is geniused. Jennings will do as good as job as any other defensive specialist centre you will pick to try and control inglis. No matter who you pick, if he is on his game, he will get past them.

I just don't get picking 'defensive specialist' centres. Inglis is hardly a defensive specialist... In fact, at times, he is rather poor in defence. Do you think he would ever get overlooked because of that?? I'm not trying to compare inglis and jennings on ability but rather their job in the team.

The funny thing for qld is picking a defensive specialist will never be an issue for them because nsw selectors are trying to pick centres to defend against their centres rather than attack them. It's mental.

Most people would agree idris' selection is probably one of the worst... But at least it's heading in the right direction. It's obvious he wasn't picked for his defensive capabilities, lol. Now if only they could keep heading that in direction by picking attacking centres... But actually pick people on attacking prowess rather than their stupid f**king appearance.

In defence and attack, jennings > idris.

Nsw's attack is the problem - i read somewhere our average points per game lately is something like 15?? How is that acceptable?? Qld has an amazing backline and they will always score a healthy amount of points. We need players who can rival that.

this.

 

[STG-Dragon]

So what does Scott offer exactly?

Is he another 'defensive specialist' like Cooper who played so brilliantly (before his injury) in Origin I? He added practically nothing to our attack and was poor in defence.

These defensive specialists seem to achieve very little in Origin. They may be awesome at club level defensively but in Origin they are just going to become Inglis or somebody else's rag-doll.

Trying to come up with these players to defend against Inglis is geniused. Jennings will do as good as job as any other defensive specialist centre you will pick to try and control Inglis. No matter who you pick, if he is on his game, he will get past them.

I just don't get picking 'defensive specialist' centres. Inglis is hardly a defensive specialist... in fact, at times, he is rather poor in defence. Do you think he would ever get overlooked because of that?? I'm not trying to compare Inglis and Jennings on ability but rather their job in the team.

The funny thing for QLD is picking a defensive specialist will never be an issue for them because NSW selectors are trying to pick centres to defend against their centres rather than attack them. It's mental.

Most people would agree Idris' selection is probably one of the worst... but at least it's heading in the right direction. It's obvious he wasn't picked for his defensive capabilities, lol. Now if only they could keep heading that in direction by picking attacking centres... but actually pick people on attacking prowess rather than their stupid f**king appearance.

In defence AND attack, Jennings > Idris.

NSW's attack is the problem - I read somewhere our average points per game lately is something like 15?? How is that acceptable?? QLD has an amazing backline and they will always score a healthy amount of points. We need players who can rival that.

What's with all this Jennings love fest??? The bloke is overrated. How many tries does he have in origin? Funny you call Cooper just a defensive player yet he has scored 2 more tries than Jennings this year in playing less games.

Matt Cooper:
9 games, 9 tries, 7 linebreaks, 31 tackle breaks, 10.9 runs/game, 95.1 metres/game, 18.9 tackles/game.

Michael Jennings:
12 games, 7 tries, 5 linebreaks, 56 tackle breaks, 11.2 runs/game, 103.2 metres/game, 13.3 tackles/game.

 

[sooperdooper]

the only issue with JT is the guy is supremely confident, he backs himself 9 times out of 10, which often means his winger never sees footy, but when he's playing as well as he is, you cant blame him

his other issue is in defense, he is prone to do the occasional Idris, and rush out of the line stupidly, he's getting better at knowing when its on and when its not but he can be baited into bad defensive plays. However unlike Idris, when he holds his line, the guy is rock solid

That is due to him wanting to smash someone... ultimately thompson is a back rower.. however the form he is in.
He has a home in the centres for now.

 

[Ike E Bear]

People whinging about halves and centres (or backs in general):

Josh Perry: 38 metres off 7 runs (4 hit-ups), 0 tackle-breaks, 0 off-loads, 18 tackles, 2 missed tackles in 31 minutes

Michael Weyman: 94 metres off 12 runs (6 hit-ups), 1 tackle-break, 1 off-load, 26 tackles, 0 missed tackles in 50 minutes

Ben Creagh: 76 metres off 9 runs (8 hit-ups), 1 tackle-break, 1 off-load, 39 tackles, 1 missed tackle, 1 error in 65 minutes

Trent Waterhouse: 57 metres off 10 runs (6 hit-ups), 4 tackle-breaks, 0 off-loads, 20 tackles, 1 missed tackle in 53 minutes

Anthony Watmough: 161 metres off 22 runs (18 hit-ups), 5 tackle-breaks, 2 off-loads, 40 tackles, 4 missed tackles, 2 errors in 80 minutes

Tom Learoyd-Lahrs: 106 metres off 12 runs (9 hit-ups), 2 tackle-breaks, 2 off-loads, 15 tackles, 2 missed tackles in 38 minutes

Brett White: 70 metres off 13 runs (10 hit-ups), 1 tackle-break, 0 off-loads, 20 tackles, 3 missed tackle in 41 minutes

Luke Lewis: 63 metres off 9 runs (3 hit-ups), 4 tackle-breaks, 2 off-loads, 21 tackles, 2 missed tackle in 42 minutes

Are there more creative players than Scott, Kidley, Tahu, Barrett etc. Yes. Would it make a difference if the forwards perform in game 2 like they did in game 1? No.

So what have the selectors done? Dropped Perry (deservedly so) for King (eh?), brought in Gallen (good), Hindmarsh (not what is needed) & O'Donnell (good). But who will end up missing out? And what happens if Weyman - the only legit prop that played well in game 1 - is ruled out?

That's why I don't see us winning game 2, and it's the reason we lost game 1.

And 21 players - what a joke.

I agree with most of this.

While I don't think Scott is the best fit for the right centre, I dont' think the centres are the problem.

The platform provided by the forwards has been lacking ... without it, the Blues will lose regardless of who plays int he backs. In that situation, Scott might be an alright pick if you're just trying to limit how much you lose by (such a negative mindset ... sigh).

The next problem is the halves. If they don't provide control and creativity at key points, the good work of forwards (if there is any) can be totally wasted. Lyon and Kimmorley didn't do the best job in Game 1, but seeing that their forwards were dominated, you really couldn't expect too much of them.

The next problem, as I see it, was that we lacked impact off the bench ... especially when Cooper was injured and we lost the ability to effectively relieve Ennis. We had no "next gear". The composition of the bench, however, meant we probably wouldn't have had a next gear, even if Cooper wasn't injured.

Finally, I think we could use more potency from our fullback. Gidley wasn't terrible in Game 1 and certainly wasn't the reason for the lose, but he really isn't a game breaker. I guess the intention was to have Hayne at fullback at key times, but the paln fell apart when Cooper got injured. Maybe that could just be chalked up to bad luck ... still the whole musical chairs element of such a crazy interchange plan makes you wonder if it would have worked anyway.

So, what needs to be done and what have the selectors actually done:

1) Fix the forward pack ... they've seemingly done some good things in bringing Gallen back, but the front row is still pathetic and we'll be missing our most potent attacking forward in Watmough because of injury. It doesn't look promising.

2) I have no idea what the halves will look like. We're all just guessing. If it's Barrett and Pearce or even Gidley and Pearce, then I reckon it's at least a step in the right direction. I still think they never should have dropped Campese, but it'd almost be unfair to throw him into a decider now (with him freaked out that if he doesn't pull a win out of his bum that he'll be dropped again ... that's why if they pick Pearce they really need to give him some assurances for the future). If, however, they go and pick Barrett and Gidley as the halves combination, I think we'll get more of the same as Game 1. It mightn't cost us the game, but it will do little to really increase our chances of victory ... especially up there.

3) Hopefully this sorts itself out to some extent, but if Gidley ends up in the halves what possible rotation could see Ennis rested? Pearce on the bench? I just don't see how that works, especially if they are dumb enough to put Idris on the bench again (and I fully expect that they are).

4) This looks like it might be sorted, pending suspension and injury concerns. Either Hayne or Dugan will be an improvement. I prefer Hayne since it's a tough gig to drop in Dugan's lap, no matter how keen he is for it. But I'm also an Eels fan, so I accept that I might be biased.

 

[sooperdooper]

how the following players are selected is a joke:
Gidley
Idris
King
Waterhouse
White
Scott

 

[gronkathon]

I don't call Cooper a defensive player.

He has all the defensive nouse of Idris

 

[Aaron_sfas]

call me one eyed, but beau scott and idris over champion? you have to be kidding. Champion has been absolutely superb all year. he bitch slapped the bulldog morris, paul gallen, and matt rogers in consecutive weeks and is leading the try scorers. these selectors have to go

 

[RedVfaithful]

Tigers fans must be the biggest whingers in the comp, origin 1 they cry about farah now its lawrence. Who said scoot will be centre he could come of the bench which would work good, his defence is great, runs hard and has alot of agresion. Defence wins game not attack