organised crime and juice of the elephant pt V

[El Diablo]

lol

he thinks Ings is a dickhead

he's right

 

[carcharias]

Are ASADA waiting for the right time to release the damning evidence?

 

[gUt]

They are waiting for the 'independent' tribunal's findings about Dank. This will apparently some bearing on whether they appeal.

 

[carcharias]

Another what ...seven hunge odd days?

 

[no name]

Another what ...seven hunge odd days?

If it wasn't for wasted taxpayers $, I'd be all for it lasting that long.

 

[kbw]

This is not just about Essendon getting off and Cronulla didn't.
There was no proof that Cronulla did anything, there was just bullying and intimidation forcing the players to accept a ban.

The other big issue is the lack of support and ignorance of the Cronulla club, the players association and the NRL.

The current hierarchy of ASADA is full of empty headed public servants that bowed to the wishes of the Labor govt of the time to create a media stir.

When ASADA was run by people that knew sport you never heard boo until the case was done and dusted and the athlete was not charged unit an air tight case could be produced.

 

[kbw]

Are ASADA waiting for the right time to release the damning evidence?

definitely, and the right time is when they actually find some.
Could be and most likely will be never

 

[betcats]

Are ASADA waiting for the right time to release the damning evidence?

Was just listening to Gibbsy on the radio and he said the acc tracked a banned substance(he had a name but i cant temeber it) from china to the essendon club. We know the essendon squad were given injections, i think they even signed waivers. They just cant prove the banned substance was injected as there is no test. Put 2 and 2 together and its pretty damning.

Its been handled appallingly bad from start to finish but there was obviously some dodgey shit going on at both essendon and cronulla. I mean really any pro athlete being given an injection by someone other than the club doctor is suspect as.

 

[Surrogate]

Was just listening to Gibbsy on the radio and he said the acc tracked a banned substance(he had a name but i cant temeber it) from china to the essendon club. We know the essendon squad were given injections, i think they even signed waivers. They just cant prove the banned substance was injected as there is no test. Put 2 and 2 together and its pretty damning.

Its been handled appallingly bad from start to finish but there was obviously some dodgey shit going on at both essendon and cronulla. I mean really any pro athlete being given an injection by someone other than the club doctor is suspect as.

Asada have 7 years to come up with the technology to be able to detect the banned substance in the samples obtained from the essendon players. By that time, the players have retired and issue will be forgotten.

 

[lockyno1]

Cronulla didn't have to fold like a cheap suit, they could have easily fought it like Essendon did. ASADA have and had nothing. It was purely a political PR stunt.

 

[betcats]

Cronulla didn't have to fold like a cheap suit, they could have easily fought it like Essendon did. ASADA have and had nothing. It was purely a political PR stunt.

The players folded too they all the option but they took bans. It was a pr stunt but there was still injections of unknown or suspicious substances happening at cronulla, the had proven that atleast.

 

[Raiderdave]

I dunno what people are moaning about
with the Cronulla players pleading guilty & being banned for a short time
this saga ended for them & they can move on.

Anyone who thinks this is over for the AFL & Essendon
is kidding themselves , an appeal will see this drag on for most of 2015.
If the AFL lose the appeal ,the full 2 year bans may be in play

good job AFL:lol:

 

[miguel de cervantes]

Oh f**k off with that crap. Your focusing only on the players accepted punishment & have in no way taken into account the damage to the club, team, performance & finances.
If you were in any way involved you wouldnt be spewing out that lightly crap.

Mate, I support a club that was booted from the comp for several years. It wasn't great for the club, team, performance, supporter moral or finances either. And they didn't even do anything wrong to deserve it.

Something dodgy probably went on at the Sharks, they lost a few players for a few weeks and copped a few fines. It could have been a lot worse. The NRL and the Sharks handled things a hell of a lot better than Essendon and the AFL have.

 

[Surrogate]

Cronulla didn't have to fold like a cheap suit, they could have easily fought it like Essendon did. ASADA have and had nothing. It was purely a political PR stunt.

McDevitt said Essendon and Cronulla cases were different.
https://audioboom.com/boos/3043627-asada-boss-ben-mcdevitt-s-press-conference-in-full

 

[Card Shark]

Dank now suing McDevitt for defaming comments at yesterday's press conference.

He must be a yank, loves the legal action.

 

[betcats]

Dank now suing McDevitt for defaming comments at yesterday's press conference.

He must be a yank, loves the legal action.

:crazy:

This f**king piece of shit needs to get run over by a bus like 9 times.

 

[miguel de cervantes]

For those still following at home...

Basically, the AFL Tribunal noted that everyone in the doping chain believed they were dealing with TB4, but that this belief is not sufficient for them to be comfortably satisfied that it definitely was TB4. Most punters find this very sus, and you can bet that after many months of deliberations the AFL legal team decided that this was the best (the only?) avenue of subjectivity they could take refuge in to get the decision they desired. I think it is not unfair to say that implicitly or explicitly even, the so called independent tribunal were always going to seek to obtain the decision the AFL as a whole would desire, and they were likely briefed, perfectly legally, as to how they may best go about this. The AFL are probably aware that an ASADA appeal has a decent chance of succeeding, a CAS appeal even more so, but they don't care as it wastes time and minimises brand damage - players will have retired, been traded around the league etc. It is the optimal path they can follow in a bad situation.

If the standard of proof was "on a balance of probabilities" then going on the details so far released from the decision, there would have been nowhere to hide and the tribunal would surely have found Essendon guilty.

So, if ASADA decide to appeal the AFL Tribunal decision,

ASADA would bear the burden of establishing... [a balance of probabilities] (more wriggle room than comfortable satisfaction) that the AFL Tribunal erred in finding belief of TB4 use did not necessarily translate into the fact that TB4 was indeed administered.

http://sociallitigator.com/2015/04/03/a-question-of-proof-might-an-asada-appeal-have-legs/

So ASADA must show, on a balance of probabilities, that in making their judgment the AFL Tribunal have bent their own rules a little too much, which is certainly the gut feeling anybody with a brain has. It is just a question of how to show this.

A CAS appeal would be completely different, basically a re-run of the trial with evidence, testimonies etc.

 

[The Elephant In The room]

For those still following at home...

Basically, the AFL Tribunal noted that everyone in the doping chain believed they were dealing with TB4, but that this belief is not sufficient for them to be comfortably satisfied that it definitely was TB4. Most punters find this very sus, and you can bet that after many months of deliberations the AFL legal team decided that this was the best (the only?) avenue of subjectivity they could take refuge in to get the decision they desired. I think it is not unfair to say that implicitly or explicitly even, the so called independent tribunal were always going to seek to obtain the decision the AFL as a whole would desire, and they were likely briefed, perfectly legally, as to how they may best go about this. The AFL are probably aware that an ASADA appeal has a decent chance of succeeding, a CAS appeal even more so, but they don't care as it wastes time and minimises brand damage - players will have retired, been traded around the league etc. It is the optimal path they can follow in a bad situation.

If the standard of proof was "on a balance of probabilities" then going on the details so far released from the decision, there would have been nowhere to hide and the tribunal would surely have found Essendon guilty.

So, if ASADA decide to appeal the AFL Tribunal decision,

http://sociallitigator.com/2015/04/03/a-question-of-proof-might-an-asada-appeal-have-legs/

So ASADA must show, on a balance of probabilities, that in making their judgment the AFL Tribunal have bent their own rules a little too much, which is certainly the gut feeling anybody with a brain has. It is just a question of how to show this.

A CAS appeal would be completely different, basically a re-run of the trial with evidence, testimonies etc.

If they all believed they were using TB4, I thought it would be a simple charge to proceed with based on the ASADA website:

"In addition to testing athletes, ASADA also has the power to investigate the possible use of prohibited substances, drugs, medications or methods in conjunction with the Australian Federal Police and Customs and Border Protection. An athlete does not have to have succeeded in using a prohibited substance or method ? if there is sufficient evidence that the athlete has attempted to use a prohibited substance or method, they can be sanctioned. It is the athlete?s responsibility to ensure that no prohibited substance, drug or medication enters his or her body. Not knowing that you have taken something is not an excuse."

No one cares about drug cheats in Australia, unless they are Chinese or East german.

 

[Phil McGrawhan]

Plenty Can't believe it at BF .
It's clear the decision was heavily weighted towards the AFL .

The whole chain of TB4 leads straight to Essingdrug ,yet they find against ASADA .

This will not end well for the club or the AFL .
If WADA let the decision stand then it sends a message out to all teams that you can go right ahead with doping as long as records are destroyed or the club tipped off .
Basically what the tribunal have foolishly done is let a team off because there was not a witness or a record of a player being injected .

I can't see ASADA or WADA letting them get away with it .

 

[miguel de cervantes]

If they all believed they were using TB4, I thought it would be a simple charge to proceed with based on the ASADA website:

"In addition to testing athletes, ASADA also has the power to investigate the possible use of prohibited substances, drugs, medications or methods in conjunction with the Australian Federal Police and Customs and Border Protection. An athlete does not have to have succeeded in using a prohibited substance or method – if there is sufficient evidence that the athlete has attempted to use a prohibited substance or method, they can be sanctioned. It is the athlete’s responsibility to ensure that no prohibited substance, drug or medication enters his or her body. Not knowing that you have taken something is not an excuse."

No one cares about drug cheats in Australia, unless they are Chinese or East german.

By arguing that nobody involved knew for sure it was a prohibited substance (and in effect saying that those running the show only believed it was, they didn't know what it was, AND that the players didn't believe or know, ie there was no intent to cheat, they were duped), they get around this condition.

Taking this stance on the players complicates the judgment in respect to Dank however, because it will likely give some ammunition to ASADA's appeal, giving an insight into the Tribunal's thought processes (any incongruence can be attacked by ASADA), which is surely why the AFL have put it off for now. The judgment on Dank will be made so as to render an ASADA appeal less likely to succeed. Firstly, by withholding, they were able to test ASADA's, the government's, the media's and the public's resolve to appeal. Also, I'm not 100% sure whether this affects the 21 day deadline ASADA has to appeal the players' judgment, but if the AFL can withhold Dank's judgment for longer than 21 days I'd hazard a guess that they will.