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OT: Association Football

Eelementary

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Is the issue with gressroots soccer that the players are mainly B-grade athletes with the better athletes still going to other sports

Definitely an issue.

Participation rates at grassroots football is very high.

I'd also say that the earning potential not being competitive is a big factor - how much can the top A-League payer earn?

How much can an Australian cricketer, AFL, or NRL player earn?

We also have it indoctrinated that certain play styles are not to be exhibited - when I was playing under 17s for my local comp, one of my teammates was a very skilful solo striker - he'd find space, beat his man with speed, and dribbling, and take a shot at goal.

He didn't go any further than that level, because the coach told him that he needed to play "team-first football".

One of my other teammates made the reserve grade Sydney FC side many years later - he was a Matt Leckie-type (fast, hoof it into the box at every opportunity by instinct).

We need to invest in the sport more, in order to be competitive.

It's painful watching our men's national side play with barely any skill with the ball.
 

Incorrect

Coach
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12,581
Definitely an issue.

Participation rates at grassroots football is very high.

I'd also say that the earning potential not being competitive is a big factor - how much can the top A-League payer earn?

How much can an Australian cricketer, AFL, or NRL player earn?

We also have it indoctrinated that certain play styles are not to be exhibited - when I was playing under 17s for my local comp, one of my teammates was a very skilful solo striker - he'd find space, beat his man with speed, and dribbling, and take a shot at goal.

He didn't go any further than that level, because the coach told him that he needed to play "team-first football".

One of my other teammates made the reserve grade Sydney FC side many years later - he was a Matt Leckie-type (fast, hoof it into the box at every opportunity by instinct).

We need to invest in the sport more, in order to be competitive.

It's painful watching our men's national side play with barely any skill with the ball.
It's hard to invest when there is no broadcast dollars like league and AFL get. Cricket Australia get big bickie's by selling their soul to the BCCI...
 

Suitman

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55,879
I'd also say that the earning potential not being competitive is a big factor - how much can the top A-League payer earn?

Lol.
Are you kidding me?
Earning potential is far beyond what NRL/AFL players can ever dream of.
Not in the A-League of course but if they are good enough, the sky is the limit.
 

84 Baby

Referee
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29,622
I am a believer of the Socceroos needing to keep their passes short.

We simply don't have the skill level to complete medium-long passes with accuracy.
I do too. I don’t think we’re good at it either but I think it’s the only way for us to create enough goal opportunities
 

Eelementary

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57,096
It is outside the cap, so as much as a top A-League club can afford. I don't know how much that is though.

I'd think that, given the points you outlined before, that the earning potential is lower in the A-League.

A 20-year old playing rugby league semi-regularly could probably earn somewhere between $100,000 and $200,000; I doubt an A-Leaguer could do that.
 

Eelementary

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Lol.
Are you kidding me?
Earning potential is far beyond what NRL/AFL players can ever dream of.
Not in the A-League of course but if they are good enough, the sky is the limit.

Yeah, sorry - I meant exclusively in the A-League.

I know overseas players get much more money.
 

hindy111

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62,867
I'd think that, given the points you outlined before, that the earning potential is lower in the A-League.

A 20-year old playing rugby league semi-regularly could probably earn somewhere between $100,000 and $200,000; I doubt an A-Leaguer could do that.

I reckon with football if your good then you can make it $$ but if you're just average A league level you won't be making heaps or attracting much interest unlike NRL.
In NRL even guys who are NSW cup / NRL potential will get interest.
 

Poupou Escobar

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91,009
I'd think that, given the points you outlined before, that the earning potential is lower in the A-League.

A 20-year old playing rugby league semi-regularly could probably earn somewhere between $100,000 and $200,000; I doubt an A-Leaguer could do that.
Maybe, but the player earning ~$150k in the NRL might be in the top 300 players in the world. With the limit on foreign players in the A-League, an Australian player only needs to be in about the top 250 players in Australia. Most of these guys wouldn't even be in the top 5000 players in the world, but they have a job in the A-League because the clubs need a majority of Australian players.
 

Eelementary

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It's hard to invest when there is no broadcast dollars like league and AFL get. Cricket Australia get big bickie's by selling their soul to the BCCI...

I mean, that is a good point.

But why is it the case?

Nations with a lower GDP than Australia can field competitive national teams - Poland, and Ecuador, have made the World Cup more times than Australia has.

Australia is a sports-mad nation - I don't see why we can't get the money there; it's the world's most popular sport, after all.

And I think everyone remembers how the nation was football-crazy in 2006, because we were good.

I think @Suitman mentioned it earlier - the FFA administrators are doing a poor job, and we would likely benefit from stronger leadership in the office.
 

Incorrect

Coach
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12,581
I mean, that is a good point.

But why is it the case?

Nations with a lower GDP than Australia can field competitive national teams - Poland, and Ecuador, have made the World Cup more times than Australia has.

Australia is a sports-mad nation - I don't see why we can't get the money there; it's the world's most popular sport, after all.

And I think everyone remembers how the nation was football-crazy in 2006, because we were good.

I think @Suitman mentioned it earlier - the FFA administrators are doing a poor job, and we would likely benefit from stronger leadership in the office.
Mate, if I was able to search posts that I put up years ago I'd love to but my account has been muzzled somewhat.

In any case, comparing Australia to Ecuador, or Poland or even Uruguay...nations with f**k all going for them apart from football yeah?! That's just nuts....

I'll say this till the day I take my last breath - Aussie kids have the same skills to a boy/girl as their soccer counterparts on any continent you compare them to...

What our players are missing is "Desperation" and "Poverty".... South American and crappy neighbourhoods the world over produce players for fun..We produce kids paying thousands of dollars to a private coaching clinic teaching them to hog the ball and stand out when some drifter who might or might not be from Pedo FC or Barcelona FC FFS...
 

Poupou Escobar

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91,009
Mate, if I was able to search posts that I put up years ago I'd love to but my account has been muzzled somewhat.

In any case, comparing Australia to Ecuador, or Poland or even Uruguay...nations with f**k all going for them apart from football yeah?! That's just nuts....

I'll say this till the day I take my last breath - Aussie kids have the same skills to a boy/girl as their soccer counterparts on any continent you compare them to...

What our players are missing is "Desperation" and "Poverty".... South American and crappy neighbourhoods the world over produce players for fun..We produce kids paying thousands of dollars to a private coaching clinic teaching them to hog the ball and stand out when some drifter who might or might not be from Pedo FC or Barcelona FC FFS...
I have a Brazilian mate. He's fairly middle class and dull, and nothing like the stereotype of the Latino lunatic. I asked him about this stereotype and he said it's true, with respect to the poor people over there. The expression he used was that 'They have to kill lions every day to survive'. The poor people in Brazil have almost nothing. There's no safety net. If they're not f**king mad they just get swallowed up. But also, there isn't much for those kids to do other than to play football. My mate drives past three tennis courts on his way to work here in Perth, but back in Belo Horizonte he wouldn't even know where people go to play tennis. Aussie kids just have so many options.

This video was interesting as well:

 

Eelementary

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57,096
Mate, if I was able to search posts that I put up years ago I'd love to but my account has been muzzled somewhat.

In any case, comparing Australia to Ecuador, or Poland or even Uruguay...nations with f**k all going for them apart from football yeah?! That's just nuts....

I'll say this till the day I take my last breath - Aussie kids have the same skills to a boy/girl as their soccer counterparts on any continent you compare them to...

What our players are missing is "Desperation" and "Poverty".... South American and crappy neighbourhoods the world over produce players for fun..We produce kids paying thousands of dollars to a private coaching clinic teaching them to hog the ball and stand out when some drifter who might or might not be from Pedo FC or Barcelona FC FFS...

That's the exact point I'm trying to make, though.

Australia has been said to struggle to fund the game; nations with nothing else going for them have been able to create programs that keep their football engines pumping.

The need for those kids from poor countries to develop their football skills to escape their cycle of poverty is not in question - I lived in Santiago for 4 years, and witnessed how dire it is first-hand (side story - my sister's school bus was shot at on a school excursion, because Augusto Pinochet's granddaughter was in my sister's class, and was aboard that bus).

My comparison between Australia, and to third world nations was drastic, but it was to serve the purpose of highlighting that if the will exists to fund football correctly, it can be done.

Why it isn't being done in Australia, I can't tell you.

But as an Australian football fan, I'm frustrated watching some of our players play in the international stage, because - quite frankly - the best we have to offer is just not good enough at that level in many cases.

It always used to be a source of humour for people that football was predominantly played by "Mediterranean Descendants", and our Australian teams at the early stages were filled by players with "foreign" blood.

Fast forward forty years, Serbian-Australians are playing rugby league, Greeks are playing AFL, and Pakistanis are representing Australia in cricket.

I am glad to see those sports embracing the cultural shift, and growing with the times, but it seems like Australian football is one of the codes that hasn't developed with the times.

I don't know.

As I said, I'm frustrated watching us struggle to qualify for a World Cup appearance, because it really shouldn't be like this.
 
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Poupou Escobar

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In most/all of these countries it's the clubs that drive junior development, and with long histories they have huge support bases and a lot of money. Brazilian clubs can make big money by identifying young players, developing them and selling them to Europe. Their costs are relatively low and the rewards are relatively high. Their population is massive and the kids are all obsessed with soccer. It's a perfect storm that provides huge benefits to the national team. None of these factors exist in Australia.

One of the problems is our small population size. Most of the countries above us are bigger, some are much bigger. But there's also some much smaller countries punching well above their weight. Here's all the countries ranked ahead of us, according to FIFA:

RankingCountryPopulation (approx.)
1Argentina46M
2France68M
3Spain48M
4England57M
5Brazil215M
6Belgium12M
7Netherlands18M
8Portugal10M
9Colombia52M
10Italy59M
11Uruguay3.5M
12Croatia4M
13Germany84M
14Morocco37M
15Switzerland9M
16Japan125M
17Mexico128M
18USA333M
19Iran92M
20Denmark6M
21Senegal17M
22Austria9M
23South Korea52M
24Ukraine38M
25Australia26M
 

hindy111

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There's 12 countries in South America and a quarter of them are in the FIFA top ten. Meanwhile only 16% of Europe's 44 countries are in the top ten.

Your application to detail unfortunately has left out two important factors.
Firstly population. Europe is 750 mill spread across 50 odd countries whilst Sth America is 440 million spread amongst 12. So you understand that's am advantage to Sth American sides


Secondly in Sth America their isn't really any other sport to contend with.
Whilst football is the biggest in Europe Rugby, Tennis,Basketball,Cricket,Handball and Hockey are big in many nations and so it isn't Football or nothing.
Even Rugby League has a following their.

And then let's look at Africa. Equally as poor as Sth America but never that great at football.

Europe develops the highest amount of talented players and have the best sides amd that's due to money and coaching. Not hunger.

Unfortunately you'll need to do better to win this argument.
 

Poupou Escobar

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Your application to detail unfortunately has left out two important factors.
Firstly population. Europe is 750 mill spread across 50 odd countries whilst Sth America is 440 million spread amongst 12. So you understand that's am advantage to Sth American sides


Secondly in Sth America their isn't really any other sport to contend with.
Whilst football is the biggest in Europe Rugby, Tennis,Basketball,Cricket,Handball and Hockey are big in many nations and so it isn't Football or nothing.
Even Rugby League has a following their.

And then let's look at Africa. Equally as poor as Sth America but never that great at football.

Europe develops the highest amount of talented players and have the best sides amd that's due to money and coaching. Not hunger.

Unfortunately you'll need to do better to win this argument.
Your argument doesn't follow logically from the facts. Yes Europe has the biggest clubs (purely because of money) and more of the best national teams (no doubt related to money), but your original assertion that "European nations are generally stronger then Sth America nowdays" was wrong, which I demonstrated before. This most recent post of yours doesn't support your initial post, it just provided reasons why it was wrong.
 

hindy111

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Your argument doesn't follow logically from the facts. Yes Europe has the biggest clubs (purely because of money) and more of the best national teams (no doubt related to money), but your original assertion that "European nations are generally stronger then Sth America nowdays" was wrong, which I demonstrated before. This most recent post of yours doesn't support your initial post, it just provided reasons why it was wrong.

Bar Argentina and Brasil Sth American football is not going to hold up against the European nations.
 

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